Gun Show Owner, Patrons May File Civil Rights Suit (CNSnews.com)

[DrAmazon]

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?Page=\Nation\archive\200509\NAT20050912a.html

[The Rabbi]

Hard to know what to make of it.
Personally if I were a dealer I would want the ATF all over gun shows.  Too many guys with tables there are actually dealers without the FFL.  It is one thing to buy and sell in your own collection but at least some people are making a living off of it.  Those are the ones who need some jail time.

[cordex]

It is one thing to buy and sell in your own collection but at least some people are making a living off of it.  Those are the ones who need some jail time.

Why?

[The Rabbi]

Because it's illegal.
Now, if you want to argue that people shouldn't need a license to buy and sell guns you wont get an argument from me.  But presently it is illegal to do so and the folks with an FFL are trying to play by the rules and those without aren't.  It is a fairness issue.

[cordex]

Rabbi,
It may just be me, but where there are many crimes, I think the lion's share of the attention, manpower and funding for enforcement should be concentrated on the most harmful of the crimes.

Paperwork violations and selling without a license are among the least harmful of gun crimes.  I'd prefer (whichever side of the gun shop counter I stand on) that the ATF concentrate on guns used in violent crimes rather than wasting manpower on finding out who sold an arbitrary "too many" guns or who forgot to dot their i's and cross their t's on some paperwork.

But that's just me.

[The Rabbi]

You're certainly entitled to that opinion.
But non-FFL's have a propensity to sell to anyone.  Anyone often being those who cannot buy from an FFL for very good reasons.  
This is similar to traffic stops for out of date tags and the like.  Sure I would rather LEOs be chasing after drug dealers, murderers and other low lifes.  But in fact a fairly large number of traffic stops turns up plenty of people with outstanding warrants for drug dealing, murder, and the like.  So it is a pro-active approach. (I hate that word).

[atek3]

Rabbi,
It may just be me, but where there are many crimes, I think the lion's share of the attention, manpower and funding for enforcement should be concentrated on the most harmful of the crimes.

Paperwork violations and selling without a license are among the least harmful of gun crimes.  I'd prefer (whichever side of the gun shop counter I stand on) that the ATF concentrate on guns used in violent crimes rather than wasting manpower on finding out who sold an arbitrary "too many" guns or who forgot to dot their i's and cross their t's on some paperwork.

But that's just me.

+1

But non-FFL's have a propensity to sell to anyone.  Anyone often being those who cannot buy from an FFL for very good reasons.

Often those who can't buy from an FFL are being deprived of a civil right for absolute BS nonsense reasons.  

atek3

[Standing Wolf]

Because it's illegal.

Illegal aliens are infinitely more injurious to the nation than guys who buy and sell guns without official permission of the B.A.T.F.E. It's a question of priorities.

[The Rabbi]

Because it's illegal.

Illegal aliens are infinitely more injurious to the nation than guys who buy and sell guns without official permission of the B.A.T.F.E. It's a question of priorities.

Is it the BATFE's job to police illegal aliens?
Murderers are infinitely more injurious than people who run stop signs.  Does that mean we should suspend enforecement of traffic laws?  Is there some cut off point that we say, no we wont enforce these set of laws and instead concentrate everything on those set of laws.  Or that law.  Which law should it be?  It is a nonsense argument.

Often those who can't buy from an FFL are being deprived of a civil right for absolute BS nonsense reasons.

But more often than not they are being "deprived" for very good reasons.

[Justin]

But non-FFL's have a propensity to sell to anyone.  Anyone often being those who cannot buy from an FFL for very good reasons.

I don't think the stats bear this out.  The feds' own study of the issue showed that less than 1% of all crime guns were purchased at gunshows.

[The Rabbi]

But non-FFL's have a propensity to sell to anyone.  Anyone often being those who cannot buy from an FFL for very good reasons.

I don't think the stats bear this out.  The feds' own study of the issue showed that less than 1% of all crime guns were purchased at gunshows.

Who said anything about gun shows?

I'll add the anecdotal evidence is also good, FWIW.  Yesterday I was talking to my favorite FFL who told me how he had sold his personal AR-15 at a gun show to a supposed FFL.  The buyer's FFl was in fact a fake.  The buyer turned around and sold the gun to a convicted felon with outstanding warrants.  The police caught up with the felon and confiscated over 100 guns, including this AR.  The BATF then paid a visit to my FFL.

[Guest]

I agree with Cordex. Especially since we are talking about a major felony that will destroy someone's life and RKBA as opposed to a misdomener charge of opperating a buisness without a license.