Author Topic: LAPD commander removed in probe of rough arrest  (Read 8166 times)

erictank

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Re: LAPD commander removed in probe of rough arrest
« Reply #25 on: August 31, 2012, 05:38:41 AM »
What a lot of people don't seem to comprehend is that the time to open your piehole is in front of the judge. As far as I know, cursing at street level police officers doing their job seldom results in them voiding the ticket.  =|

bob



That's as may be - heck, I'll even agree with you from a practical point of view. Although I'll reserve the right to civilly inform an officer who is in the wrong that he *IS* in the wrong, and why, to give him a chance to undo his error. Hasn't needed to happen yet, so I have no idea whether it would be likely to work or not.

Cursing at "street-level police officers doing their job" should NOT result in curbstomping, or even in milder forms of "attitude adjustment."

Tallpine

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Re: LAPD commander removed in probe of rough arrest
« Reply #26 on: August 31, 2012, 09:21:40 AM »
I've argued with a cop before, and Won!

Did it politely but firmly, however.
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

grampster

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Re: LAPD commander removed in probe of rough arrest
« Reply #27 on: August 31, 2012, 09:59:09 AM »
One can argue with the street cop, if one isn't an idiot about it.  There were many times I pulled folks over for various and sundry traffic infractions where I really hadn't decided to write a ticket or not.  Sometimes the decision to write one was made easy for me by the traffic violator's attitude.

On the other hand: =D

I recall being stopped at a red light heading east when a vehicle approached from the opposite direction and made a right turn without even slowing down.  (Not OK to turn on red in those days.)  I was astounded at the guys inattention.  So I pulled him over went through the license, registration and insurance routine.  He sat quietly and provided the info and when I finished with the routine and advised him I was giving him a ticket for running a red light, he quietly advised me that there is a green arrow for right hand turns.  (That cross street became a one way at that light going south. He was headed west and was turning north)  I told the guy that he was mistaken and here's your ticket.  He said at least I could go back and look.  "Nope not necessary, you're wrong here's your ticket." says I.  He shrugged his shoulders wished me a good day and left.

After he left, something was intruding upon my self righteous LE attitude.  So I went back to the intersection and looked it over.  I was horrified to find out that he was right.  A bit later I looked for a pay phone and called the guy's house and when he answered I apologized to him and drove to his house and picked up his copy of the ticket so I could void it.  Eating crow is never a pleasant thing, but it surely does make one be more sure of oneself before taking actions.

I once pulled a vehicle over for speeding.  When I got to the female driver and started to do my routine, she turned a tearful face to me and told me she was speeding because she had to pee. :O  I don't know if she did or whether she pulled the wool, but it worked.  I couldn't let her go fast enough. :laugh: :laugh:
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RevDisk

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Re: LAPD commander removed in probe of rough arrest
« Reply #28 on: August 31, 2012, 11:05:49 AM »

The video.

http://news.yahoo.com/video/caught-camera-2-lapd-officers-060800925.html

At first glance, the first toss could theoretically be justified with the right story. Standard "I'm not there, I don't know what happened" disclaimer. Second toss? Not so much. I'd be curious to see even C&SD explain that one.

Rookie is toast. Union will protect the older guy until he can retire. So likely, both will ride a desk until they leave the LAPD.


After he left, something was intruding upon my self righteous LE attitude.  So I went back to the intersection and looked it over.  I was horrified to find out that he was right.  A bit later I looked for a pay phone and called the guy's house and when he answered I apologized to him and drove to his house and picked up his copy of the ticket so I could void it.  Eating crow is never a pleasant thing, but it surely does make one be more sure of oneself before taking actions.

My hats off to you, sir.

Here in the states, thankfully my involvement with the local police has been minimal. But two out of three have been excellent. Back in college, the university police's job was to underreport crime. This is common at most schools, to pad the crime statistics to which parents do pay a lot of attention. There was one officer in particular that did not. Rapes would be reported as such. Same with theft, or any other crime. Except for alcohol related offenses, which were severely policed. A rape or mugging would be ignored if possible, but even a small gathering of students involving alcohol would warrant strict attention. I suspect over 90% of reported crimes bore his signature on the reports. Normally students were very reluctant to talk to police, wisely so. We worked with this officer on a regular basis to keep him up to date on intel, if we warranted it wise. If a lady, even possibly underage, was walking home intoxicated, he would give her a lift home. Other officers would either leave her to her fate, or take her to the station. He was a good person. That lady is now my best friend's wife, and a nurse. An underage drinking conviction could have cost her career.

Saved my bacon later. I had some issues with a department a few years later. They were under the impression that local ordinances trumped federal law. And unfortunately, I had to go to them for fingerprints for my TS clearance. Word got around the station that I was responsible for a particular officer being (literally) screamed at by Army lawyers and the local magistrates. Apparently, when a local magistrate (a veteran of the 82nd Airborne) threatens to call the DA on an officer for violations of federal law, this is not pleasant. So, 6-8 officers were watching my fingerprinting with a semi hostile air. Which is flattering, that they thought it would take that many officers to subdue me or successfully ah, arrange an accidental "fall", if necessary. Until one officer looked at my ID, that they were passing around. It was Officer N mentioned above. Did the "This is not the droid you're looking for" wave, tipped his hat to me and the other officers dispersed.

Tis why I am courteous to folks. Never know when YEARS down the road... It pays off dearly.

And my local police where I live now seem also very nice folks.

People are people. Some good, some bad, most somewhere inbetween. Courtesy is always a wise decision. There is (usually) no profit from screaming and waving. I have rarely been pulled over, but when I am, I do exactly what I would prefer to see back when I was walking up on unknown vehicles. Hands on the wheel, calm even tones and reasonable politeness. It does not always help, but it has never thus far hurt.


As far as the OP, my RN wife can hardly get a ticket.  Cops see her scrubs and where she works and give her a warning. 

Friend of mine is a nurse. Same story. I can completely understand, as I try not to anger women that may have access to sharp objects while I can incapacitated.
"Rev, your picture is in my King James Bible, where Paul talks about "inventors of evil."  Yes, I know you'll take that as a compliment."  - Fistful, possibly highest compliment I've ever received.

longeyes

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Re: LAPD commander removed in probe of rough arrest
« Reply #29 on: August 31, 2012, 11:13:13 AM »
An unvirtuous people will produce unvirtuous police.
"Domari nolo."

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grampster

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Re: LAPD commander removed in probe of rough arrest
« Reply #30 on: August 31, 2012, 11:20:59 AM »
Emergency room nurses were Florence Nightingales when I was in LE.  The took care of us as if they were our mothers.
"Never wrestle with a pig.  You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."  G.B. Shaw

Tallpine

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Re: LAPD commander removed in probe of rough arrest
« Reply #31 on: August 31, 2012, 01:24:22 PM »
Quote
Tis why I am courteous to folks. Never know when YEARS down the road... It pays off dearly.

Yeah, especially those with badges and guns  =)
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

Perd Hapley

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Re: LAPD commander removed in probe of rough arrest
« Reply #32 on: August 31, 2012, 01:31:32 PM »
Quote
I try not to anger women people that may have access to sharp objects while I can incapacitated.


The Jayne Cobb Rule.
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: LAPD commander removed in probe of rough arrest
« Reply #33 on: August 31, 2012, 04:29:16 PM »
If Florence nightengale decided " you can't srredt me!" And resisted I'll wager being taken to the ground is sop. And she was a slow learner since she hada go through that in the initial cuffing. The toss was over enthusiastic. I will observe though wthat there is a phenomenom amongst some nurses that mimics being badge heavy. They get used to being in command and don't okay well when that's gets challenged. The worst thing I saw was the fist bump. Juvenile and unproffesional. You notice that her husband was smart enough to stay in the car?
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Scout26

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Re: LAPD commander removed in probe of rough arrest
« Reply #34 on: August 31, 2012, 04:48:50 PM »
The worst thing I saw was the fist bump.

Ahhh ja, Herr cs&d, endschuldigen sie, your Hugo Boss Uniform is on back order, aber your Schuhzweckestiefel are in.
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


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BobR

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Re: LAPD commander removed in probe of rough arrest
« Reply #35 on: August 31, 2012, 04:51:59 PM »
Is there a copy of the entire video available, or just the edited parts that are being shown by various news outlets? I watched one news report that said 1 minute 40 seconds passed between the cuffing and the second toss to the ground. Things like this is why I am an advocate of all police wearing body cams. They are thinking of buying them for the city police here.

bob

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: LAPD commander removed in probe of rough arrest
« Reply #36 on: August 31, 2012, 05:00:09 PM »
Is there a copy of the entire video available, or just the edited parts that are being shown by various news outlets? I watched one news report that said 1 minute 40 seconds passed between the cuffing and the second toss to the ground. Things like this is why I am an advocate of all police wearing body cams. They are thinking of buying them for the city police here.

bob

You meanyou noticed the mysterious edit in the tape the one that immediately precedes her second face plant? Were I a cynical man I'd observe that her landsharks offered us the tape. Maybe its different in la but getting out of your car and advancing angrily towards the cops is considered threatening in some places. Ymmv
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Scout26

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Re: LAPD commander removed in probe of rough arrest
« Reply #37 on: August 31, 2012, 05:18:32 PM »
I guess you missed the part where she is cuffed and at the back the back of the squad car, when she's thrown to the ground?  

Yep, shoulda tased her ass.  That will teach her to respect authoritay.

Can someone explain why c&sd gets all frothy at the mouth over Sheriff Joe's (alledged) misdeeds, but runs into to defend the Ordung Polizei when they go all "What 4th Amendment ?" on the people they have sworn to "Serve and Protect"?
« Last Edit: September 02, 2012, 01:00:53 PM by scout26 »
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: LAPD commander removed in probe of rough arrest
« Reply #38 on: August 31, 2012, 05:22:39 PM »
That's exactly the point I refer to. There is an odd edit there that makes me wanna see what happened. Or in your mind the cops decided to see if they could hip toss her in front of her hubby for grins and chuckles? I wonder how bad she was that her old man stayed in the car rather than defend her. And I wonder how used to her going off he was.
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

MechAg94

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Re: LAPD commander removed in probe of rough arrest
« Reply #39 on: August 31, 2012, 05:34:45 PM »
I guess I'll have to watch the video later. 

However, I have been watching that cable channel a lot that has World's Dumbest and Amazing Police Videos.  I have to say that there are a bunch of stupid people out there.  In a lot of those videos I end up wanting to see cops beat the crap out of the person or shoot them and can't believe it when they don't.  I certainly won't just assume these cops were in the wrong without some clear unedited evidence. 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

brimic

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Re: LAPD commander removed in probe of rough arrest
« Reply #40 on: August 31, 2012, 05:40:58 PM »
Quote
You meanyou noticed the mysterious edit in the tape the one that immediately precedes her second face plant? Were I a cynical man I'd observe that her landsharks offered us the tape. Maybe its different in la but getting out of your car and advancing angrily towards the cops is considered threatening in some places. Ymmv

Lolz. The part where the woman got the big bootprint on her chest was edited out.

 ;/

CSD, why can't you accept that there are some really bad people in the world? Certain people really like to bully, hurt, and even kill other people, even women and children. These people become construction workers, executives, teachers, doctors, truck drivers, farmers and sometimes, yes, as hard as it is to believe, they sometimes become cops. Unfortunately, as cops they have an outlet for their psychosis and get to try to push the envelope of what they can get away with to get their rocks off. This is not an indictment of the police-most of whom do a dirty, dangerous and thankless job, its an indictment of the deranged individual and those who are more than willing to leap in and cover for them when they do cross the line.

I'll leave you with this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49kgG0s7lVk

That is how one of these individuals act when they think the camera isn't running. Believe me that at the time, there was no shortage of internet trolls, police union goons, and others holding up the 'thin blue line' defending this sewer turd.

"now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb" -Dark Helmet

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roo_ster

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Re: LAPD commander removed in probe of rough arrest
« Reply #41 on: August 31, 2012, 05:59:31 PM »
I guess you missed the part where she is cuffed and at the back the back of the squad car, when she's thrown to the ground? 

Yep, shoulda tased her ass.  That will teach her to respect authoritay.

Can someone explain why c&sd gets all frothy at the mouth pver Sheriff Joe's (alledged) misdeeds, but runs into to defend the Ordung Polizei when they go all "What 4th Amendment ?" or the people they have sworn to "Serve and Protect"?

Sheriff Joe also targets illegal aliens, which in some way pinches CSD's sensibilities/bottom line/whatever.  Regular American citizens do not get similar sympathy when abused.
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Blakenzy

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Re: LAPD commander removed in probe of rough arrest
« Reply #42 on: August 31, 2012, 06:38:07 PM »
I guess I'll have to watch the video later. 

However, I have been watching that cable channel a lot that has World's Dumbest and Amazing Police Videos.  I have to say that there are a bunch of stupid people out there.  In a lot of those videos I end up wanting to see cops beat the crap out of the person or shoot them and can't believe it when they don't.  I certainly won't just assume these cops were in the wrong without some clear unedited evidence. 

I would like to see the entire video as well. I think it is important. But one thing is clear here:

Two full grown active duty cops vs. one lady in handcuffs...  ;) And the only way they could "feel in control" was by forcefully throwing her face-first into the pavement, all the while her hands restrained behind her back. Watch the video closely, that was a skilled throw, HE GUIDED HER HEAD INTO THE GROUND. That is an extremely violent action, and even more so because she was literally handicapped by the cuffs on her wrists and had no way of guarding the impact.

What could have happened off camera that would have raised the treat level enough to merit that level of violent force?

Was she being taught a lesson? Was the younger cop being taught a lesson by the Vet, who saw a justifiable opportunity to teach with a real live (conveniently petite) punching bag?

"Knowledge will forever govern ignorance, and a people who mean to be their own governors, must arm themselves with the power knowledge gives. A popular government without popular information or the means of acquiring it, is but a prologue to a farce or a tragedy or perhaps both"

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: LAPD commander removed in probe of rough arrest
« Reply #43 on: August 31, 2012, 07:14:39 PM »
she was not teachable    it was her second trip to the ground in a couple mins. after her storming outa her car.
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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MechAg94

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Re: LAPD commander removed in probe of rough arrest
« Reply #44 on: August 31, 2012, 07:47:36 PM »
I would like to see the entire video as well. I think it is important. But one thing is clear here:

Two full grown active duty cops vs. one lady in handcuffs...  ;) And the only way they could "feel in control" was by forcefully throwing her face-first into the pavement, all the while her hands restrained behind her back. Watch the video closely, that was a skilled throw, HE GUIDED HER HEAD INTO THE GROUND. That is an extremely violent action, and even more so because she was literally handicapped by the cuffs on her wrists and had no way of guarding the impact.

What could have happened off camera that would have raised the treat level enough to merit that level of violent force?

Was she being taught a lesson? Was the younger cop being taught a lesson by the Vet, who saw a justifiable opportunity to teach with a real live (conveniently petite) punching bag?


First, you first statement makes all the rest purely assumption.  If I know I am watching an edited video, I refuse to assign blame.  I am not going to make any assumptions here and treat the cops like they are guilty until proven innocent. 

And then there is always the attitude I get sometimes that stupid should hurt..............a lot.  That attitude doesn't fit too well with our hyper sensitive tort system though. 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

griz

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Re: LAPD commander removed in probe of rough arrest
« Reply #45 on: August 31, 2012, 09:52:16 PM »
she was not teachable    it was her second trip to the ground in a couple mins. after her storming outa her car.

Are you suggesting that it is the job of the police to beat some sense in to handcuffed prisoners?
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: LAPD commander removed in probe of rough arrest
« Reply #46 on: August 31, 2012, 09:58:15 PM »
no i was responding to the comment about teaching her a lesson.  she was and likely still is unteachable
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

RoadKingLarry

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Re: LAPD commander removed in probe of rough arrest
« Reply #47 on: August 31, 2012, 10:34:48 PM »
I guess you missed the part where she is cuffed and at the back the back of the squad car, when she's thrown to the ground? 

Yep, shoulda tased her ass.  That will teach her to respect authoritay.

Can someone explain why c&sd gets all frothy at the mouth pver Sheriff Joe's (alledged) misdeeds, but runs into to defend the Ordung Polizei when they go all "What 4th Amendment ?" or the people they have sworn to "Serve and Protect"?

Projection?
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

RocketMan

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Re: LAPD commander removed in probe of rough arrest
« Reply #48 on: September 01, 2012, 12:56:21 AM »
Why is it that these two LA cops were unable to deal with a confrontational motorist without body slamming her to the ground (twice), when thousands of other cops nationwide have managed to over the years?
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erictank

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Re: LAPD commander removed in probe of rough arrest
« Reply #49 on: September 01, 2012, 05:48:43 AM »
One can argue with the street cop, if one isn't an idiot about it.  There were many times I pulled folks over for various and sundry traffic infractions where I really hadn't decided to write a ticket or not.  Sometimes the decision to write one was made easy for me by the traffic violator's attitude.

On the other hand: =D

I recall being stopped at a red light heading east when a vehicle approached from the opposite direction and made a right turn without even slowing down.  (Not OK to turn on red in those days.)  I was astounded at the guys inattention.  So I pulled him over went through the license, registration and insurance routine.  He sat quietly and provided the info and when I finished with the routine and advised him I was giving him a ticket for running a red light, he quietly advised me that there is a green arrow for right hand turns.  (That cross street became a one way at that light going south. He was headed west and was turning north)  I told the guy that he was mistaken and here's your ticket.  He said at least I could go back and look.  "Nope not necessary, you're wrong here's your ticket." says I.  He shrugged his shoulders wished me a good day and left.

After he left, something was intruding upon my self righteous LE attitude.  So I went back to the intersection and looked it over.  I was horrified to find out that he was right.  A bit later I looked for a pay phone and called the guy's house and when he answered I apologized to him and drove to his house and picked up his copy of the ticket so I could void it.  Eating crow is never a pleasant thing, but it surely does make one be more sure of oneself before taking actions.

I once pulled a vehicle over for speeding.  When I got to the female driver and started to do my routine, she turned a tearful face to me and told me she was speeding because she had to pee. :O  I don't know if she did or whether she pulled the wool, but it worked.  I couldn't let her go fast enough. :laugh: :laugh:

Respectful tip of the hat to you, for both admitting your error with the first one and recognizing the urgency of the second :lol:.