Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Ben on December 29, 2017, 08:51:28 PM
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Major anti-government protests are going on in Iran.
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/12/29/iran-is-being-rocked-by-anti-government-protests-heres-why-demonstrators-deserve-trumps-support.html
Would it not be interesting if the Trump admin got involved in peaceful regime change?
Sohrab Ahmari
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@SohrabAhmari
Obama made a catastrophic mistake in 2009 by refusing to back 3 million brave Iranians protesters. The people chanted: "Obama, either with us or with them [the mullahs]!"
He sided with them.
Trump has a historic chance to do right by Iranians where Obama did wrong.
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I'm kind of thinking we ought to stay the hell out of it.
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I was wondering what exactly he proposed Trump do? He just wants him to cheer on the protestors. I guess the superiority of American moral support will win the day or something.
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Interfering is like being the cop who pulls up on a DV call. Yes he was beating her, yes she will stab the cop to save her man. Really a lifeline. Mullah in trouble? Look! Great Satan!
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Interfering is like being the cop who pulls up on a DV call. Yes he was beating her, yes she will stab the cop to save her man. Really a lifeline. Mullah in trouble? Look! Great Satan!
I agree. Don't know how many hardliners are still around from when we intruded in very unwelcome ways, but interfering there seems to be a thing like Russia interfering with our elections.
So much as a statement of support from Trump could actually do more harm than good.
Of course, I'm not an expert, and I hope Trump is listening to experts. Trump's bombastic nature might actually help here, in that his saying something would be viewed less interference than a careful comment by Obama - because they KNOW it wasn't careful.
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I'm kind of thinking we ought to stay the hell out of it.
I'm kind of in agreement.
Talk about a lose-lose situation ...
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To be clear, I wasn't suggesting anything involving military intervention. Nor am I necessarily in favor of any major involvement. I was thinking more along the lines of what various articles mentioned regarding, for example, the tactics of Reagan and the USSR.
An "official" word of encouragement or statement about how an Iran (the guys who screwed us in the nuke deal) with, if not a democratic, at least a less totalitarian government, would likely be a good thing. We already generally scold Iran regarding their treatment of certain segments of their society, so siding with the protest movement (at least on common philosophies) wouldn't necessarily get us dangerously involved in any regime change.
On the other hand, Trump siding with the demonstrators would make more SJW heads explode. =D
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I agree. Don't know how many hardliners are still around from when we intruded in very unwelcome ways, but interfering there seems to be a thing like Russia interfering with our elections.
So much as a statement of support from Trump could actually do more harm than good.
Of course, I'm not an expert, and I hope Trump is listening to experts. Trump's bombastic nature might actually help here, in that his saying something would be viewed less interference than a careful comment by Obama - because they KNOW it wasn't careful.
1. Besides spending $100K on FB ads (which were just about evenly divided between Pro-Trump and Pro-Hillary), what exactly did Russia do to "Interfere" with our election ??
2. Commenting on protests is NOT anywhere near the same as "interfering with an election", in fact there is NO election pending in Iran.
3. No, it can't hurt to merely comment on it.
4. "Today's experts are tomorrow's aholes". All the "experts" predicted Hillary would win in a laugher. Trump has proven to be highly effective because he has not listened to experts. He has taken advice and counsel and then more often then not done the right thing. Not the "popular" or "But we've always done it that way", but the RIGHT (in both meanings of the word) way.
5. The mullahs hate us. What are they going to do, hate us more ??
6. They Iranian economy is in shambles, even after we lifted sanctions. IF somehow we were to bring Iran back into the semi-civiliized nations, think about how they would stop (or maybe just decrease) funding of terrorist groups. (ISIS, Hezbollah, etc). Perhaps, some agreement with the Saudis. Instead of the current Persian Gulf hostility (reducing the need for US Forces in the region). And perhaps the abandonment of the Nuke program.
7. Ignoring them in 2009 worked oh so well....
I would advise Trump and Tillerson to roll the dice. Our relationship can't get any worse.
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And Trump takes to twitter to support the protesters in Iran. Leftie Journo's rush to the fainting couch with bunched up knickers...
https://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2017/12/30/what-david-frums-hot-take-on-trumps-support-for-iran-protesters-is-so-scorching-he-burned-himself/
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Heh, this is a little awkward. I guess they're trying to do the "me too" thing. =D
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2017/12/30/a-little-late-barack-obama-urged-to-make-public-statement-in-support-of-iranian-protesters/
2009 is calling.
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I wish Obama would fade away. I've had more than enough of that narcissistic bastard.
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I wish Obama would fade away. I've had more than enough of that narcissistic bastard.
QFT
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Yes - getting involved in the middle east to support a "popular" uprising is entirely the sensible thing to do, after fifty years of chaos and bloodshed sparked by repeated Western interventions in the region.
Trump would be better off advocating the health benefits of everyone eating soap.
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Just a question in general, but why do we bother with the middle east, especially the countries that hate us so much?
We don't get all that much oil from them, so why do we care so much if they blow themselves to smithereens on a regular basis?
I get supporting Israel, but the others, even the "friendly" ones, seem to be a lot more trouble than they are worth.
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Just a question in general, but why do we bother with the middle east, especially the countries that hate us so much?
We don't get all that much oil from them, so why do we care so much if they blow themselves to smithereens on a regular basis?
I get supporting Israel, but the others, even the "friendly" ones, seem to be a lot more trouble than they are worth.
TBH its extremely questionable whether the Iranians, even the regime, "hate" the West. Of all the grim parade of Islamist terror attacks these past twenty-five years - 9/11, Bali, Madrid, 7/7, Mumbai, Paris, Berlin, Nice, London Bridge, Manchester, Borough Market, Barcelona - none of them were launched by Shi'a or Iranian-backed groups. The vast majority of attacks in Iraq, Egypt, India, Pakistan or anywhere across the Islamic world aren't launched by Shi'a or Iranian-backed groups either.
The biggest problem the Iranian regime has with us is that, for some reason, we seem a lot more likely to use our overwhelming military strength against them rather than the people who actually do hate us.
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TBH its extremely questionable whether the Iranians, even the regime, "hate" the West. Of all the grim parade of Islamist terror attacks these past twenty-five years - 9/11, Bali, Madrid, 7/7, Mumbai, Paris, Berlin, Nice, London Bridge, Manchester, Borough Market, Barcelona - none of them were launched by Shi'a or Iranian-backed groups. The vast majority of attacks in Iraq, Egypt, India, Pakistan or anywhere across the Islamic world aren't launched by Shi'a or Iranian-backed groups either.
The biggest problem the Iranian regime has with us is that, for some reason, we seem a lot more likely to use our overwhelming military strength against them rather than the people who actually do hate us.
The little embassy thing is still remembered and they certainly do fund anti-Israel terrorists. I don't know how much of that funding branches out to other activities. Also, the previous President in Iran didn't seem to have any trouble talking about how much he didn't like us. Maybe all that money Obama paid them to agree to that worthless agreement a few years ago made them like us, but I doubt it.
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The little embassy thing is still remembered and they certainly do fund anti-Israel terrorists. I don't know how much of that funding branches out to other activities. Also, the previous President in Iran didn't seem to have any trouble talking about how much he didn't like us. Maybe all that money Obama paid them to agree to that worthless agreement a few years ago made them like us, but I doubt it.
Giving money to people doesn't make them like you. The NORKS are proof of that. They might pretend they don't hate you for a little while, but nothing more.
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Giving money to people doesn't make them like you. The NORKS are proof of that. They might pretend they don't hate you for a little while, but nothing more.
I guess I should but a cynical smile after that statement. Agreed. =D
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US Mucking around in the ME is so that NATO (Except Britain and Norway) along with the RoK and Japan have energy.
We still get 13% from the Persian Gulf, but with Trump opening up more of the US, domestic production may increase.
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Yes - getting involved in the middle east to support a "popular" uprising is entirely the sensible thing to do, after fifty years of chaos and bloodshed sparked by repeated Western interventions in the region.
Trump would be better off advocating the health benefits of everyone eating soap.
The grand total of our mucking around in Iran so far has been Trump tweeting "Go Protesters !!". We're going to sit this out and let the Iranians work out their differences.
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Obama and Hillary's getting involved in the 'Arab Spring" has paid us such wonderful dividends
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Obama and Hillary's getting involved in the 'Arab Spring" has paid us such wonderful dividends
Don't forget Europe's vibrant new tourist population!
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Don't forget Europe's vibrant new tourist population!
That's more on Europe...
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But it was Hillary and Obama and their idiot ideas that kicked the stones loose that eventually released the flood.
Of course Merkel betrayed her countrymen as did the Swedish government and others so they made it far worse than it should have been.
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But it was Hillary and Obama and their idiot ideas that kicked the stones loose that eventually released the flood.
Of course Merkel betrayed her countrymen as did the Swedish government and others so they made it far worse than it should have been.
No, it started in Tunisa when that guy did the Human Torch impersonation. Yeah, she kicked over the anthills in Libya and Syria.
Merkel got paid back by the Greeks, but she could have stopped that at the beginning.
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I have read that the folks in the streets in Iran are Sunni. I wonder how this figures? Also, recognizing that most of the aloha snack bars we have endured in the last few years have been Sunni doesn’t make the Shi’a any better. The Iran-backed Shi’a are the heavies in Hezbollah and a major cadre in the pro-Assad forces in Syria.
Best to leave all this alone.
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The Iranian gov did supply weapons and training to militia groups attacking us in Iraq.
There were Iranian special forces captured in Iraq also.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/irans-quds-force-was-blamed-for-attacks-on-us-troops-in-iraq/2011/10/11/gIQAPqv0dL_story.html?utm_term=.e01aa7da8a18