Author Topic: Major Protests in Iran  (Read 2969 times)

Ben

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Major Protests in Iran
« on: December 29, 2017, 08:51:28 PM »
Major anti-government protests are going on in Iran.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/12/29/iran-is-being-rocked-by-anti-government-protests-heres-why-demonstrators-deserve-trumps-support.html

Would it not be interesting if the Trump admin got involved in peaceful regime change?

Quote
Sohrab Ahmari

@SohrabAhmari

Obama made a catastrophic mistake in 2009 by refusing to back 3 million brave Iranians protesters. The people chanted: "Obama, either with us or with them [the mullahs]!"

He sided with them.

Trump has a historic chance to do right by Iranians where Obama did wrong.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

RoadKingLarry

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Re: Major Protests in Iran
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2017, 10:48:10 PM »
I'm kind of thinking we ought to stay the hell out of it.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

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MechAg94

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Re: Major Protests in Iran
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2017, 10:54:45 PM »
I was wondering what exactly he proposed Trump do?  He just wants him to cheer on the protestors.  I guess the superiority of American moral support will win the day or something.
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

French G.

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Re: Major Protests in Iran
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2017, 11:21:02 PM »
Interfering is like being the cop who pulls up on a DV call. Yes he was beating her, yes she will stab the cop to save her man. Really a lifeline. Mullah in trouble? Look! Great Satan!
AKA Navy Joe   

I'm so contrarian that I didn't respond to the thread.

Firethorn

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Re: Major Protests in Iran
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2017, 11:43:44 PM »
Interfering is like being the cop who pulls up on a DV call. Yes he was beating her, yes she will stab the cop to save her man. Really a lifeline. Mullah in trouble? Look! Great Satan!

I agree.  Don't know how many hardliners are still around from when we intruded in very unwelcome ways, but interfering there seems to be a thing like Russia interfering with our elections.

So much as a statement of support from Trump could actually do more harm than good.

Of course, I'm not an expert, and I hope Trump is listening to experts.  Trump's bombastic nature might actually help here, in that his saying something would be viewed less interference than a careful comment by Obama - because they KNOW it wasn't careful.

Hawkmoon

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Re: Major Protests in Iran
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2017, 02:58:19 AM »
I'm kind of thinking we ought to stay the hell out of it.

I'm kind of in agreement.

Talk about a lose-lose situation ...
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Ben

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Re: Major Protests in Iran
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2017, 09:30:35 AM »
To be clear, I wasn't suggesting anything involving military intervention. Nor am I necessarily in favor of any major involvement. I was thinking more along the lines of what various articles mentioned regarding, for example, the tactics of Reagan and the USSR.

An "official" word of encouragement or statement about how an Iran (the guys who screwed us in the nuke deal) with, if not a democratic, at least a less totalitarian government, would likely be a good thing. We already generally scold Iran regarding their treatment of certain segments of their society, so siding with the protest movement (at least on common philosophies) wouldn't necessarily get us dangerously involved in any regime change.

On the other hand, Trump siding with the demonstrators would make more SJW heads explode.  =D
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Scout26

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Re: Major Protests in Iran
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2017, 04:21:04 PM »
I agree.  Don't know how many hardliners are still around from when we intruded in very unwelcome ways, but interfering there seems to be a thing like Russia interfering with our elections.

So much as a statement of support from Trump could actually do more harm than good.

Of course, I'm not an expert, and I hope Trump is listening to experts.  Trump's bombastic nature might actually help here, in that his saying something would be viewed less interference than a careful comment by Obama - because they KNOW it wasn't careful.

1.  Besides spending $100K on FB ads (which were just about evenly divided between Pro-Trump and Pro-Hillary), what exactly did Russia do to "Interfere" with our election ??

2.  Commenting on protests is NOT anywhere near the same as "interfering with an election", in fact there is NO election pending in Iran.

3.  No, it can't hurt to merely comment on it.  

4.  "Today's experts are tomorrow's aholes".  All the "experts" predicted Hillary would win in a laugher.  Trump has proven to be highly effective because he has not listened to experts.  He has taken advice and counsel and then more often then not done the right thing.  Not the "popular" or "But we've always done it that way", but the RIGHT (in both meanings of the word) way.  

5. The mullahs hate us.  What are they going to do, hate us more ??

6.  They Iranian economy is in shambles, even after we lifted sanctions.  IF somehow we were to bring Iran back into the semi-civiliized nations, think about how they would stop (or maybe just decrease) funding of terrorist groups.  (ISIS, Hezbollah, etc). Perhaps, some agreement with the Saudis. Instead of the current Persian Gulf hostility (reducing the need for US Forces in the region).  And perhaps the abandonment of the Nuke program.

7. Ignoring them  in 2009 worked oh so well....


I would advise Trump and Tillerson to roll the dice.  Our relationship can't get any worse.      
« Last Edit: December 30, 2017, 11:54:34 PM by Amy Schumer »
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Scout26

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Re: Major Protests in Iran
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2017, 04:39:09 PM »
And Trump takes to twitter to support the protesters in Iran.  Leftie Journo's rush to the fainting couch with bunched up knickers...

https://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2017/12/30/what-david-frums-hot-take-on-trumps-support-for-iran-protesters-is-so-scorching-he-burned-himself/
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

Ben

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Re: Major Protests in Iran
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2017, 05:15:20 PM »
Heh, this is a little awkward. I guess they're trying to do the "me too" thing. =D

https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2017/12/30/a-little-late-barack-obama-urged-to-make-public-statement-in-support-of-iranian-protesters/

2009 is calling.
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Phyphor

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Re: Major Protests in Iran
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2017, 06:06:45 PM »
I wish Obama would fade away.  I've had more than enough of that narcissistic bastard.
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Andiron

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Re: Major Protests in Iran
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2017, 06:08:51 PM »
I wish Obama would fade away.  I've had more than enough of that narcissistic bastard.

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agricola

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Re: Major Protests in Iran
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2017, 06:48:25 PM »
Yes - getting involved in the middle east to support a "popular" uprising is entirely the sensible thing to do, after fifty years of chaos and bloodshed sparked by repeated Western interventions in the region.

Trump would be better off advocating the health benefits of everyone eating soap.

"Idiot!  A long life eating mush is best."
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BlueStarLizzard

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Re: Major Protests in Iran
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2017, 07:12:09 PM »
Just a question in general, but why do we bother with the middle east, especially the countries that hate us so much?

We don't get all that much oil from them, so why do we care so much if they blow themselves to smithereens on a regular basis?

I get supporting Israel, but the others, even the "friendly" ones, seem to be a lot more trouble than they are worth.
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agricola

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Re: Major Protests in Iran
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2017, 07:23:53 PM »
Just a question in general, but why do we bother with the middle east, especially the countries that hate us so much?

We don't get all that much oil from them, so why do we care so much if they blow themselves to smithereens on a regular basis?

I get supporting Israel, but the others, even the "friendly" ones, seem to be a lot more trouble than they are worth.

TBH its extremely questionable whether the Iranians, even the regime, "hate" the West.  Of all the grim parade of Islamist terror attacks these past twenty-five years - 9/11, Bali, Madrid, 7/7, Mumbai, Paris, Berlin, Nice, London Bridge, Manchester, Borough Market, Barcelona - none of them were launched by Shi'a or Iranian-backed groups.  The vast majority of attacks in Iraq, Egypt, India, Pakistan or anywhere across the Islamic world aren't launched by Shi'a or Iranian-backed groups either.  

The biggest problem the Iranian regime has with us is that, for some reason, we seem a lot more likely to use our overwhelming military strength against them rather than the people who actually do hate us.  
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MechAg94

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Re: Major Protests in Iran
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2017, 07:57:26 PM »
TBH its extremely questionable whether the Iranians, even the regime, "hate" the West.  Of all the grim parade of Islamist terror attacks these past twenty-five years - 9/11, Bali, Madrid, 7/7, Mumbai, Paris, Berlin, Nice, London Bridge, Manchester, Borough Market, Barcelona - none of them were launched by Shi'a or Iranian-backed groups.  The vast majority of attacks in Iraq, Egypt, India, Pakistan or anywhere across the Islamic world aren't launched by Shi'a or Iranian-backed groups either.  

The biggest problem the Iranian regime has with us is that, for some reason, we seem a lot more likely to use our overwhelming military strength against them rather than the people who actually do hate us.  
The little embassy thing is still remembered and they certainly do fund anti-Israel terrorists.  I don't know how much of that funding branches out to other activities.  Also, the previous President in Iran didn't seem to have any trouble talking about how much he didn't like us.  Maybe all that money Obama paid them to agree to that worthless agreement a few years ago made them like us, but I doubt it. 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

BlueStarLizzard

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Re: Major Protests in Iran
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2017, 08:08:54 PM »
The little embassy thing is still remembered and they certainly do fund anti-Israel terrorists.  I don't know how much of that funding branches out to other activities.  Also, the previous President in Iran didn't seem to have any trouble talking about how much he didn't like us.  Maybe all that money Obama paid them to agree to that worthless agreement a few years ago made them like us, but I doubt it. 

Giving money to people doesn't make them like you. The NORKS are proof of that. They might pretend they don't hate you for a little while, but nothing more.
"Okay, um, I'm lost. Uh, I'm angry, and I'm armed, so if you two have something that you need to work out --" -Malcolm Reynolds

MechAg94

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Re: Major Protests in Iran
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2017, 09:44:02 PM »
Giving money to people doesn't make them like you. The NORKS are proof of that. They might pretend they don't hate you for a little while, but nothing more.
I guess I should but a cynical smile after that statement.  Agreed.   =D
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

Scout26

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Re: Major Protests in Iran
« Reply #18 on: December 30, 2017, 10:17:45 PM »
US Mucking around in the ME is so that NATO (Except Britain and Norway) along with the RoK and Japan have energy.

We still get 13% from the Persian Gulf, but with Trump opening up more of the US, domestic production may increase.
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

Scout26

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Re: Major Protests in Iran
« Reply #19 on: December 30, 2017, 10:40:41 PM »
Yes - getting involved in the middle east to support a "popular" uprising is entirely the sensible thing to do, after fifty years of chaos and bloodshed sparked by repeated Western interventions in the region.

Trump would be better off advocating the health benefits of everyone eating soap.



The grand total of our mucking around in Iran so far has been Trump tweeting "Go Protesters !!".   We're going to sit this out and let the Iranians work out their differences.
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

RoadKingLarry

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Re: Major Protests in Iran
« Reply #20 on: December 30, 2017, 10:46:59 PM »
Obama and Hillary's getting involved in the 'Arab Spring" has paid us such wonderful dividends
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

just Warren

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Re: Major Protests in Iran
« Reply #21 on: December 30, 2017, 11:40:43 PM »
Obama and Hillary's getting involved in the 'Arab Spring" has paid us such wonderful dividends


Don't forget Europe's vibrant new tourist population!
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Scout26

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Re: Major Protests in Iran
« Reply #22 on: December 30, 2017, 11:55:19 PM »
Don't forget Europe's vibrant new tourist population!

That's more on Europe...
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

just Warren

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Re: Major Protests in Iran
« Reply #23 on: December 31, 2017, 12:34:02 AM »
But it was Hillary and Obama and their idiot ideas that kicked the stones loose that eventually released the flood.

Of course Merkel betrayed her countrymen as did the Swedish government and others so they made it far worse than it should have been.
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Scout26

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Re: Major Protests in Iran
« Reply #24 on: December 31, 2017, 02:51:22 AM »
But it was Hillary and Obama and their idiot ideas that kicked the stones loose that eventually released the flood.

Of course Merkel betrayed her countrymen as did the Swedish government and others so they made it far worse than it should have been.

No, it started in Tunisa when that guy did the Human Torch impersonation.   Yeah, she kicked over the anthills in Libya and Syria.

Merkel got paid back by the Greeks, but she could have stopped that at the beginning. 
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.