Author Topic: What If Democracy Is Bunk?  (Read 5791 times)

Ron

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10,882
  • Like a tree planted by the rivers of water
    • What I believe ...
What If Democracy Is Bunk?
« on: February 23, 2012, 11:06:52 AM »
Quote
What if you are only allowed to vote because it doesn't make a difference? What if no matter how you vote, the elites get to have it their way? What if "one person, one vote" is just a fiction created by the government to induce your compliance? What if democracy is dangerous to personal freedom? What if democracy erodes the people's understanding of natural rights and the foundations of government, and instead turns elections into beauty contests?

Interesting and provocative article IMHO

http://townhall.com/columnists/judgeandrewnapolitano/2012/02/23/what_if_democracy_is_bunk/page/full/
For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

wmenorr67

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,775
Re: What If Democracy Is Bunk?
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2012, 11:20:38 AM »
Democracy is bunk, our country is a Republic.
There are five things, above all else, that make life worth living: a good relationship with God, a good woman, good health, good friends, and a good cigar.

Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier.  One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.

Bacon is the candy bar of meats!

Only the dead have seen the end of war!

Ron

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10,882
  • Like a tree planted by the rivers of water
    • What I believe ...
Re: What If Democracy Is Bunk?
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2012, 11:23:58 AM »
Democracy is bunk, our country is a Republic.

Touché

How strong are the foundations and how much damage has been done now that the mob has learned it can vote itself goodies from the public treasury?

Or is the mob only being distracted and manipulated by the elites with bread and circuses? Keep the serfs fed, entertained and distracted.

For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

Balog

  • Unrepentant race traitor
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 17,774
  • What if we tried more?
Re: What If Democracy Is Bunk?
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2012, 11:32:33 AM »
What if I want the author to stop just asking questions, and actually propose a solution other than "Vote Ron Paul"? Which in itself is funny, given that it's a screed against democracy.

Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

Ron

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10,882
  • Like a tree planted by the rivers of water
    • What I believe ...
Re: What If Democracy Is Bunk?
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2012, 11:43:35 AM »
Part of the reason we have the two party miasma is that the public accepts the current state of affairs as normal.

The media argues about the various issues of the day but rarely does the conversation question the presuppositions that the current rotting edifice is predicated on.

Ron Paul is the only one in the presidential race who is questioning these presuppositions.

Everyone else wants to be the captain of the ship steaming towards the iceberg. Ron Paul wants to rein in our democracy and strengthen the Republic, change course in other words.

Getting people to ask the correct questions is part of the solution.



 
« Last Edit: February 23, 2012, 11:47:04 AM by Ron »
For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

Nick1911

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,492
Re: What If Democracy Is Bunk?
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2012, 11:48:03 AM »
Pet theory: Democracy is an inherently unstable political structure.  Given time, it will collapse.

NB: The alternatives are not necessarily better.

TommyGunn

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 7,956
  • Stuck in full auto since birth.
Re: What If Democracy Is Bunk?
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2012, 12:00:00 PM »
"The ideal form of government is democracy tempered with assassination."  ~~ Voltaire. [popcorn]
MOLON LABE   "Through ignorance of what is good and what is bad, the life of men is greatly perplexed." ~~ Cicero

longeyes

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,405
Re: What If Democracy Is Bunk?
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2012, 01:23:05 PM »
I need to go back and read more Voltaire. =D

Are you sure that wasn't in Candide and written with sardonic irony?
"Domari nolo."

Thug: What you lookin' at old man?
Walt Kowalski: Ever notice how you come across somebody once in a while you shouldn't have messed with? That's me.

Molon Labe.

longeyes

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,405
Re: What If Democracy Is Bunk?
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2012, 01:23:49 PM »
Democracy is bunk, our country is a Republic.

Exactamundo. +1
"Domari nolo."

Thug: What you lookin' at old man?
Walt Kowalski: Ever notice how you come across somebody once in a while you shouldn't have messed with? That's me.

Molon Labe.

Balog

  • Unrepentant race traitor
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 17,774
  • What if we tried more?
Re: What If Democracy Is Bunk?
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2012, 01:26:36 PM »
Part of the reason we have the two party miasma is that the public accepts the current state of affairs as normal.

The media argues about the various issues of the day but rarely does the conversation question the presuppositions that the current rotting edifice is predicated on.

Ron Paul is the only one in the presidential race who is questioning these presuppositions.

Everyone else wants to be the captain of the ship steaming towards the iceberg. Ron Paul wants to rein in our democracy and strengthen the Republic, change course in other words.

Getting people to ask the correct questions is part of the solution.



 

Sure, but what's the end goal? Getting people to ask questions you can't answer seems counter-productive...
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

longeyes

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,405
Re: What If Democracy Is Bunk?
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2012, 01:34:45 PM »
Ron Paul is the President of a country that never was and never will be.

That doesn't mean he's wrong.
"Domari nolo."

Thug: What you lookin' at old man?
Walt Kowalski: Ever notice how you come across somebody once in a while you shouldn't have messed with? That's me.

Molon Labe.

wmenorr67

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,775
Re: What If Democracy Is Bunk?
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2012, 02:22:14 PM »
Ron Paul is the President of a country that never was and never will be.

That doesn't mean he's wrong.

That is the problem.  Too many people have forgotten or never really grasped what our country is all about.
There are five things, above all else, that make life worth living: a good relationship with God, a good woman, good health, good friends, and a good cigar.

Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier.  One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.

Bacon is the candy bar of meats!

Only the dead have seen the end of war!

TommyGunn

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 7,956
  • Stuck in full auto since birth.
Re: What If Democracy Is Bunk?
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2012, 07:47:41 PM »
I need to go back and read more Voltaire. =D

Are you sure that wasn't in Candide and written with sardonic irony?

Unfortunatly my Google-Foo is broken today and aside from being able to confirm Voltaire said it, I am unable to document where he said it.
MOLON LABE   "Through ignorance of what is good and what is bad, the life of men is greatly perplexed." ~~ Cicero

longeyes

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,405
Re: What If Democracy Is Bunk?
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2012, 07:55:10 PM »
It's okay; if he didn't say it he should have. =)
"Domari nolo."

Thug: What you lookin' at old man?
Walt Kowalski: Ever notice how you come across somebody once in a while you shouldn't have messed with? That's me.

Molon Labe.

BridgeRunner

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4,845
Re: What If Democracy Is Bunk?
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2012, 09:02:28 PM »
So, the bad new:

Societies, particularly representative ones, tend to have a limited life span.  We appear to be nearing the end of our.  Not to say that we are, could rally somewhat.  But nothing lasts forever.

The good news, still unfortunately abstract:

The two-party system has become so ingrained that I think eradicating it would be a substantial enough shift to reset the clock. 

The bad news:

The two-party structure is so ingrained that we're nearing the point of Sunni/*expletive deleted*it level hostility, or at least Hatfield/McCoy, but no one from a blue state can identify that reference.  It's invaded all levels and branches of government and to a large degree it's been a driving force in the outrageously huge growth of bureaucracy. It does nothing useful: it exists to perpetuate itself and its consolidated power.  To succeed at that, it distracts from substantive issues with idiotic schemes designed to destroy thoughtful collaboration, on any level.

The good news:

I don't think it's treason (yet) to advocate the violent overthrow of the Republican and Democratic parties.

The bad news:

It's definitely a "terroristic threat" to do so.  Yeah, we're pretty much screwed.

George Washington was right about political parties.

Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas

  • Webley Juggler
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4,415
  • All I got is a fistful of shekels
Re: What If Democracy Is Bunk?
« Reply #15 on: February 23, 2012, 11:22:45 PM »
Ron Paul is the President of a country that never was and never will be.

That doesn't mean he's wrong.
Erm... policy-wise, he's the reincarnation of Grover Cleveland, on pretty much everything.

longeyes

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,405
Re: What If Democracy Is Bunk?
« Reply #16 on: February 23, 2012, 11:26:55 PM »
Does that mean he gets elected twice, at his age? =D
"Domari nolo."

Thug: What you lookin' at old man?
Walt Kowalski: Ever notice how you come across somebody once in a while you shouldn't have messed with? That's me.

Molon Labe.

Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas

  • Webley Juggler
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4,415
  • All I got is a fistful of shekels
Re: What If Democracy Is Bunk?
« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2012, 11:39:28 PM »
Does that mean he gets elected twice, at his age? =D
And grows an awesome 'stache.  :laugh:

French G.

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10,195
  • ohhh sparkles!
Re: What If Democracy Is Bunk?
« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2012, 05:44:18 AM »
So, the bad new:

Societies, particularly representative ones, tend to have a limited life span.  We appear to be nearing the end of our.  Not to say that we are, could rally somewhat.  But nothing lasts forever.

The good news, still unfortunately abstract:

The two-party system has become so ingrained that I think eradicating it would be a substantial enough shift to reset the clock. 

The bad news:

The two-party structure is so ingrained that we're nearing the point of Sunni/*expletive deleted*it level hostility, or at least Hatfield/McCoy, but no one from a blue state can identify that reference.  It's invaded all levels and branches of government and to a large degree it's been a driving force in the outrageously huge growth of bureaucracy. It does nothing useful: it exists to perpetuate itself and its consolidated power.  To succeed at that, it distracts from substantive issues with idiotic schemes designed to destroy thoughtful collaboration, on any level.

The good news:

I don't think it's treason (yet) to advocate the violent overthrow of the Republican and Democratic parties.

The bad news:

It's definitely a "terroristic threat" to do so.  Yeah, we're pretty much screwed.

George Washington was right about political parties.

+1

My highly educated in American Studies ex-half would argue, and be largely right, that the story of the revolution that we hold dear is a myth of history. Considering the large amount of apathetic, uninvolved, loyalist types compared to the 3-10% that actively did something it is correct that our pop history view of the revolution is myth. However, it is my belief that as long as one person remembers and believes in the underpinnings of the myth we can start over.
AKA Navy Joe   

I'm so contrarian that I didn't respond to the thread.

grampster

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 9,453
Re: What If Democracy Is Bunk?
« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2012, 08:33:10 AM »
You all know why the Founders didn't create a Democracy, but instead created a Constitutional Representative Republic.  No sense in rehashing that.

The problem is the thing they were most fearful of, factionalism, which abounds in a democracy, is beginning to undermine the Republic in spite of the checks and balances of a Republic.  Why? Because the other thing they worried about, careerist politicians and an electorate that is uninformed and lackadaisical has infested the Republic.  Those two items have caused the Constitution to be mainly either ignored or criminally violated by those careerists while an uninformed public goes blithely about their business being entertained and having their bread provided by the careerists.  The Founders knew that leaders had to rise up, lead, and then fade away.  The Founders also knew that individual citizens need to be informed and involved in the Republic.  ("We gave you a Republic, Madam, if you can keep it." Franklin)  Sadly, the things they feared the most are taking hold in spite of their monumental effort and work.

As a young lad, I used to hear all the comparisons to Rome.  I never really imagined that the rot so freely and universally known about the Roman Empire, would bring down our country in my lifetime.  

I think a column by Maureen Dowd that I read a couple days ago is a perfect example of the coarsening of our culture and perfectly outlined by Dowd, albeit unwittingly.  Oddly, her column was intended to be a mockery of Rick Santorum and that he is a man of Christian faith and that he is a danger to society as we prefer it.  Dowd's examples of her described preferred cultural norm as opposed to Santorum's beliefs were in reality a glaring example of her elevating the rot and coarseness that our culture is undergoing, while distorting and demeaning values that many, perhaps most of us, deep down adhere.

Now, I'm not intending to get into any discussion about Santorum and his beliefs that have mostly been distorted by the media etc. anyway.  That's not my purpose here.  Agree with him or disagree with him.  Fine.   It's just that Dowd's arrogant and mean spirited column glaringly exposed the cultural coarsening that is driving us down.  In some ways its so sad to watch a person spew nasty about others when they are usually describing their own behavior and beliefs.

PS:  Napolitano's comments were very well said and should be seriously contemplated.  Instead, he's fired.  How typical.
"Never wrestle with a pig.  You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."  G.B. Shaw

TommyGunn

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 7,956
  • Stuck in full auto since birth.
Re: What If Democracy Is Bunk?
« Reply #20 on: February 24, 2012, 11:20:31 AM »
...... Napolitano's comments were very well said and should be seriously contemplated.  Instead, he's fired.  How typical.

What!?!?  Who fired Judge Napolitano? :mad: [ar15]
MOLON LABE   "Through ignorance of what is good and what is bad, the life of men is greatly perplexed." ~~ Cicero

Balog

  • Unrepentant race traitor
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 17,774
  • What if we tried more?
Re: What If Democracy Is Bunk?
« Reply #21 on: February 24, 2012, 11:21:57 AM »
Fox Business News canceled his show (along with several others around his time slot). Most likely a ratings based decision, not ideological.
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

TommyGunn

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 7,956
  • Stuck in full auto since birth.
Re: What If Democracy Is Bunk?
« Reply #22 on: February 24, 2012, 11:23:41 AM »
Oh, no wonder I hadn't heard; I don't get Fox Business Channel. 
MOLON LABE   "Through ignorance of what is good and what is bad, the life of men is greatly perplexed." ~~ Cicero

MicroBalrog

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,505
Re: What If Democracy Is Bunk?
« Reply #23 on: February 24, 2012, 12:29:23 PM »
Pet theory: Democracy is an inherently unstable political structure.  Given time, it will collapse.


So will anything.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

brimic

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,270
Re: What If Democracy Is Bunk?
« Reply #24 on: February 24, 2012, 01:22:48 PM »
Quote
What if democracy is dangerous to personal freedom?

What if the Earth is round?
What if fire is hot?
What if water is wet?

Oh was that a rhetorical question?
"now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb" -Dark Helmet

"AK47's belong in the hands of soldiers mexican drug cartels"-
Barack Obama