18,000 miles and I need new brake rotors?

[Monkeyleg]

I've been doing my own repairs on cars for over 40 years.

For a surprise Christmas present in December of 2002, I got my wife a new 2003 Chrysler PT Cruiser.

IIRC, it wasn't much more than a year after that when she started to complain about the squealing noise from the brakes.

Considering that my wife is one of those drivers who floors it from the stoplight, and then slams the brakes a block later at the next light, I figured that she'd just glazed up the pads.

This afternoon, my wife's sister's husband--who has now become the family expert on just about everything--looked at the rotors and said that the pads were down to the metal.

So, flashlight in hand, I looked at and ran my fingers over the rotors. Not smooth, but not gouged up the way rotors would be if the pads were down to the rivets. Considering all the construction--gravel, dirt, mud, and everything else that's been going on in our area--it wouldn't surprise me that the rotors have taken more than normal abuse.

But new rotors at 18,000 miles?

The high and low spots on the rotors are pretty shallow, although I can definitely feel them. It's a smooth transition from high to low, rather than grooves like you'd feel on an old record album.

So, considering that money is tight, and my back can't stand much strain, would you opt for: a) just putting on new pads; b) getting new pads and having the rotors cut (assuming that all of that can be done in the one day my wife has off); c) buying new rotors and pads and installing them myself or; d) handing the car off to a repair shop?

I haven't pulled the wheels, so I haven't miked the rotors.

Opinions very much welcome.

[charby]

If you can see plenty of metal still on the rotor, just put new pads on them.  I can usually get 100k plus on a rotor unless the pads wear down to rivets.

I think your BIL is quick to think like the repair shops want to do and make as much money as possible, respectfully.

You mentioned you like to do you own car repair, so you know that pad replacement is no big deal. Way easier than brake shoe replacement.

-C

[AJ Dual]

PT Cruisers seem prone to funky wheel issues, IMO.

Our '01 PT Cruiser (affectionately known by me as the "Clown Car", as I "inherited" as my daily driver as we shuffled cars to accomodate our two sets of twins...)  had really funky tire wear where the tires progressively wore themselves out of round. We just had to replace all four tires and be done with it.

Two co-workers with PT's reported the same thing.

I'm not impressed, but it's paid off.

Not that it really helps. Just another data point.

If it were I, I'd just put pads on it. If the rotors are truly that funky, you'll feel it when you brake.

[Boomhauer]

New Pads first.

Teach your wife to treat the car more gently, too...

If you have been doing your own repairs for over 40 years (as my father has)...I see no reason to hand it off to a repair shop. I don't trust mechanics, anyway...

And I have had pads down to the rivets...did not have to replace the rotors, they are doing fine

We usually get about 10 months to a year out of pads ourselves, before it wears down to the squealer. Then we replace. Gotta love autozone's lifetime pad replacement warrenty, and all four vehicles that we run use the same pads...

New rotors at 18,000 miles? I think not. Tell BIL to shut up, unless he is going to pay for it to go to the shop. It ain't his car, his money, or his time, is it?

[Monkeyleg]

Avenger29, you must first understand my BIL's role in the family hierarchy.

[Jealous voicetones] Jon arrived on the family scene about eight years ago. Prior to that, my wife and I were the ones making the "big money," and we were able to be generous to everyone at Christmas time, or any other time.

I also did many of the major repairs to the cars that my FIL and MIL owned, not to mention my own and my wife's. I've even built rust-buckets into trophy cars, all by myself.

Jon is much more handy with house stuff than I am; he owns a plumbing/AC/heating company. And he's become the Most Favored Son-In-Law, with food lavished on his plate, and every word he utters as Gospel. [/Jealous voicetones]

However, I've been working on cars longer than he's been alive.

And I think I'll take your advice and the advice of others and just replace the pads. It probably wouldn't be a bad idea to have the rotors cut, but this is election season, and my plate is pretty full.

I'll see what the rotors look like next year, when I have a GENUINE Wisconsin shall-issue CCW permit!

[Azrael256]

New rotors, nothin'.  If the deepest groove is still above a safe thickness for turning, new pads and maybe machining if the surface is real uneven.  

18k is pretty early for new pads.  I would guess that they're actually in decent shape, but at $25 a set, I never put old pads back on a car.

[280plus]

You must know that new pads on worn rotors will wear faster. It's ok in a pinch but I'd plan to take care of the rotors ASAP. Don't feel bad, I have an E-250 that warps the rotors within a couple of weeks after being turned. I gave up and now live with the pulsation.

[garyk/nm]

+1 on the AutoZone lifetime warranty stuff. $20-25 one time cost. Some of their stores even turn the rotors for you.

[Harold Tuttle]

there's a class action right now on jeep GC front disk brakes

warp speed!

[Sergeant Bob]

Wow, I had the same kind of problems with my 84 Chrysler Laser (especially the right front), as have several others I've known who have or have had Chryslers. I guess they haven't changed much since then.

After a while I just gave up and replaced pads without touching the rotors. You'll probably get as many miles out of them as you would if you turned them.

I know a bunch of people who work at a Chrysler plant in Kokomo, In. and most of them say the only reason they even buy them is because they work there and, get the discount.

I'll never buy another Chysler.

[onions!]

What's the wear on the rear brakes?

[Larry Ashcraft]

A friend of mine has been a mechanic for over 35 years.  He claims the newer rotors aren't designed to be turned more than once.  My favorite brake and muffler shop says the current thinking is to just replace pads unless the rotors are shot.

My friend said his current record on ruined rotors is 7,000 miles.  Young girl, new car.  They just can't seem to understand that there is something between gas and brakes called coasting.

For the record, I'm especially easy on brakes.  On my 1992 F150 (bought new) I replaced the pads at 70,000 miles and again at 160,000 miles.  The rear shoes are still original, as are the front rotors.  I had the rotors machined once when they became warped.  FWIW, warped rotors are usually caused by driving into a deep puddle of water when the brakes are hot.

[280plus]

FWIW, warped rotors are usually caused by driving into a deep puddle of water when the brakes are hot.

That's interesting. I just figured it was cheap metal.

[...has left the building.]

I would try new pads and a driving lesson. Back in the day, my girlfriend (now my wife), used to use the pedals as if they were "Go" and "Stop". After a few months of constant bitching, I mean coaching, she learned how to use them properly.

there's a class action right now on jeep GC front disk brakes

warp speed!

I drove my coworker's GC to Indy the other day and the wobble was insane! Thanks for that info, I'll have to let her know about it and see if her model year is covered.

[mfree]

Rotors are also very rarely actually warped, what happens 99% of the time is that a thicker layer of brake pad material gets melted to the disc (say, by holding the brakes down after a panic stop) and that changes the friction level at that spot. That causes shuddering brakes.

that said, my truck has that very issue and one of these days (I find I rarely ever even use the brakes, most of the time I downshift) I'll give them a good polish with some emory cloth and re-break them in. If that doesn't hack it then they probably are warped and I'll have a shop give 'em a turn.

[grislyatoms]

I wore the front brakes on a Toyota Corolla down to the rivets. The rotors were grooved rather badly. I knew I wouldn't have the car much longer (it had 180K on it and a lot of other problems) so I just put some pads on it. I drove it for another 4K miles or so before I sent it to the auto boneyard. I didn't have any problems during those 4K miles.

18K sounds way too soon, even with jackrabbit stops.

[Gewehr98]

I have friends with a PT Cruiser they bought new on the lot when Chrysler was scalping the sticker prices. It's been a pain in the backside for them, new brakes, rotors, uneven tire wear, new rims (!), you name it.

I'd attribute it to the fact there's a Dodge Neon chassis underneath that heavy PT Cruiser body, suffering from the extra stresses of that arrangement.  

I'd so hoped the look-alike Chevy HHR would've learned, but it doesn't look much more substantial underneath.  

[French G.]

I doubt you need new rotors. That said, I treat rotors as disposable now. I do all my own brakes and for passenger vehicles a new rotor is cheaper than the money and annoyance of going somewhere to get a set turned. Now for my 3500 P/U, I think I'll turn those 90lb beasts. My record on a set of brakes( pads and rotors) is 90K miles on my departed Ford t-bird. Quite an achievement since about once a month I'd take a rollicking ride down a backroad at max pavement retention speed, stopping only once brakes, tires, or other was smoking.  I balanced that out by not really using my brakes in the big city, it is amazing how much you can figure about stop light timing if you just pay attention.

[Art Eatman]

Sounds to me like it's Come-to-Jesus time.  Yeah, stick a set of pads in.  Explain why she wore them out some 70K miles early.  Point out the cost of turning the rotors and the effort involved.  And then point out the joys of walking, riding a bus, or pumping along on a bicycle.

I've found that folks who have to pay for their own car repairs generally learn not to abuse them.  My own opinion about folks who abuse cars in their daily driving is not at all complimentary.  "Childish" is one of the first labels that comes to mind.  You may quote me.

(All that said, the abuse of hot-rodding is a different deal.  It's known ahead of time what happens when you drive really hard.  It's a choice based on knowledge of consequences.)

, Art

[Monkeyleg]

Just an update. I called a good repair shop near me, and they want $309 to install good-quality rotors and ceramic pads.

I called the NAPA parts store near me, and ceramic pads and good-quality rotors would cost me $208.

Both places said that the new factory rotors are throw-away parts. NAPA even got rid of their rotor-turning machine, because so few rotors had enough material left to cut.

Since I was too short-sighted to run 220 volt power to the garage when I re-wired it years back, I have to run a cord to my basement to plug in my compressor for the impact wrench and other air tools.

And, I have to work in the alley, since our garage is too full of stuff to fit a car in there.

This is an example of why I miss having my photo studio. I had heat/AC, 220 outlets everywhere, chain hoists, engine hoists, and every other amenity an amateur mechanic could want. Plus, a 400 watt-per-channel stereo system while I worked.

$100 difference.

Hmmm. Have to noodle on that.

[Brad Johnson]

I drive a Crown Vic and talk online to a bunch of guys that hot-rod them (or generally just drive them hard). Hauling the weighty Vic down from speed is no small feat and the front pad and rotors take a beating. They have been having excellent luck with the Raybestos Super Stop rotors.  They are available from Advance Auto Parts web page (partsamerica.com). The Super Stops were developed for fleet/taxi use.

Just FYI..

Brad

[...has left the building.]

Put a Wilwood big brake kit on there! Your wife will probably vomit the first time she mashes the pedal to stop for a red light.

[Monkeyleg]

Thanks for the advice, Daniel.

Did I also mention that I do the washing/cleaning of the car?

[...has left the building.]

Thanks for the advice, Daniel.

Did I also mention that I do the washing/cleaning of the car?

Oh...in that case, ignore my advice!

I have actually cleaned a girl's barf out of my beautiful BMW M3 that I had before my current car. There seriously wasn't even a thread to be found out of place on the carpet and she barfs on it...ARGH!!!!

[Tallpine]

must be something wrong with me or my brakes or my driving, because the brakes on my vehicles last practically forever


then again, they are all old (15 and 30 years) and made out of real steel