Author Topic: The Criminal N.S.A.  (Read 6742 times)

roo_ster

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The Criminal N.S.A.
« on: June 28, 2013, 05:20:30 PM »
A look at the laws which the administration (to include NSA, DOJ, etc.) use to justify the mass hoovering of phone & internet data of the entirety of the citizenry.

Unsurprisingly, there is a lot of legal and lexicographical legerdemain to go from the black & white of the (already permissive) laws to the totalitarian level of collection revealed.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/28/opinion/the-criminal-nsa.html?pagewanted=2&_r=4&ref=opinion&pagewanted=all&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+businessinsider+%28Business+Insider%29&
Quote
The two programs violate both the letter and the spirit of federal law. No statute explicitly authorizes mass surveillance. Through a series of legal contortions, the Obama administration has argued that Congress, since 9/11, intended to implicitly authorize mass surveillance. But this strategy mostly consists of wordplay, fear-mongering and a highly selective reading of the law. Americans deserve better from the White House — and from President Obama, who has seemingly forgotten the constitutional law he once taught.

Quote
Even in the fearful time when the Patriot Act was enacted, in October 2001, lawmakers never contemplated that Section 215 would be used for phone metadata, or for mass surveillance of any sort. Representative F. James Sensenbrenner Jr., a Wisconsin Republican and one of the architects of the Patriot Act, and a man not known as a civil libertarian, has said that “Congress intended to allow the intelligence communities to access targeted information for specific investigations.” The N.S.A.’s demand for information about every American’s phone calls isn’t “targeted” at all — it’s a dragnet. “How can every call that every American makes or receives be relevant to a specific investigation?” Mr. Sensenbrenner has asked. The answer is simple: It’s not.

The government claims that under Section 215 it may seize all of our phone call information now because it might conceivably be relevant to an investigation at some later date,

Quote
Like the Patriot Act, the FISA Amendments Act gives the government very broad surveillance authority. And yet the Prism program appears to outstrip that authority. In particular, the government “may not intentionally acquire any communication as to which the sender and all intended recipients are known at the time of the acquisition to be located in the United States.”

The government knows that it regularly obtains Americans’ protected communications. The Washington Post reported that Prism is designed to produce at least 51 percent confidence in a target’s “foreignness” — as John Oliver of “The Daily Show” put it, “a coin flip plus 1 percent.” By turning a blind eye to the fact that 49-plus percent of the communications might be purely among Americans, the N.S.A. has intentionally acquired information it is not allowed to have, even under the terrifyingly broad auspices of the FISA Amendments Act.

How could vacuuming up Americans’ communications conform with this legal limitation? Well, as James R. Clapper Jr., the director of national intelligence, told Andrea Mitchell of NBC, the N.S.A. uses the word “acquire” only when it pulls information out of its gigantic database of communications and not when it first intercepts and stores the information.

If there’s a law against torturing the English language, James Clapper is in real trouble.

Quote
Leave aside the Patriot Act and FISA Amendments Act for a moment, and turn to the Constitution.

The Fourth Amendment obliges the government to demonstrate probable cause before conducting invasive surveillance. There is simply no precedent under the Constitution for the government’s seizing such vast amounts of revealing data on innocent Americans’ communications.

The government has made a mockery of that protection by relying on select Supreme Court cases, decided before the era of the public Internet and cellphones, to argue that citizens have no expectation of privacy in either phone metadata or in e-mails or other private electronic messages that it stores with third parties.

The original laws were already overbroad.  The executive and the legislature have ignored any codified legal limitations and gone hog wild under the veil of secrecy.

I think the time has come where we can no longer tolerate any level of secrecy when it comes to domestic surveillance.  And let there be no doubt: this is domestically-directed, no matter the "51% level of confidence of foreignness."(1)  These operations and courts and procedures simply must be made open, as we have seen that our gov't is not worthy of our trust.  They have shown what they will do when unobserved and they need a chaperone when playing with taxpayer-funded spook toys.

1. A foreign focus.  
2. A domestic surveillance model that relies more on "patrol and presence" than "ambush."  The smart terrorists have already gone the tor & encrypted comms route.  They even have their own encryption software packages.  "Jihadicom Version 2.3: Now with automated darknet access!"  
3. No more immigration from muslim countries.  Immigration policy ought to be based on what is best for the citizens, not foreigners.  We can get by just fine without any muslim immigrants.  We absolutely must get over the "Invade the world, invite the world" mental illness.

Disturbing thought of the week:
NSA collects all this phone & net data and stores it away.  Eventually most data & docs become declassified and subject to FOIA.  (Even when FOUO tricks are played.)  Will you be happy to know your telephone & web browsing habits will eventually be subject to FIA requests?  





(1) "We certify your breakfast cereal to be at least 51% grains and 49% rat droppings."
« Last Edit: June 30, 2013, 01:43:44 PM by Roo_ster »
Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton

Fly320s

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Re: The Criminal N.S.A.
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2013, 10:21:22 PM »
I would heartily agree with you, but the NSA might be watching.  [tinfoil]

Actually, I do agree. The NSA, FBI, etc all need a good, hard yank on their leashes.
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lee n. field

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Re: The Criminal N.S.A.
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2013, 10:34:42 PM »
Someone tell me when we've reached that magic "high crimes and misdemeanors" point.
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French G.

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Re: The Criminal N.S.A.
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2013, 07:45:55 AM »
Where are these quotes snipped from?

As for the president forgetting the constitutional law he once taught, even fully remembered it's not much better than hitler teaching an ethnic diversity course.
AKA Navy Joe   

I'm so contrarian that I didn't respond to the thread.

Scout26

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Re: The Criminal N.S.A.
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2013, 12:38:03 PM »
Someone tell me when we've reached that magic "high crimes and misdemeanors" point.

Were went past with F&F and Benghazi.   When will have have a Congress and electorate that says "Enough" !!!
« Last Edit: July 16, 2013, 01:34:26 PM by scout26 »
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roo_ster

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Re: The Criminal N.S.A.
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2013, 01:43:01 PM »
Where are these quotes snipped from?

As for the president forgetting the constitutional law he once taught, even fully remembered it's not much better than hitler teaching an ethnic diversity course.

My apologies.  Oped in Wall Street Journal:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/28/opinion/the-criminal-nsa.html?pagewanted=2&_r=4&ref=opinion&pagewanted=all&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+businessinsider+%28Business+Insider%29&
Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton

French G.

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Re: The Criminal N.S.A.
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2013, 03:13:53 PM »
Ty for the linky.
AKA Navy Joe   

I'm so contrarian that I didn't respond to the thread.


RoadKingLarry

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Re: The Criminal N.S.A.
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2013, 11:19:40 PM »
We're went past with F&F and Benghazi.   When will have have a Congress and electorate that says "Enough" !!!

When they pre-empt the stupor bowl for an Obama speech.
When Jersy Shore gets cancled in favor of Michelle Obama's cooking show.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

Regolith

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Re: The Criminal N.S.A.
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2013, 04:23:48 AM »
When Jersy Shore gets cancled in favor of Michelle Obama's cooking show.

I'm having trouble deciding which would suck worse.
The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. - Thomas Jefferson

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Ben

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Re: The Criminal N.S.A.
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2013, 10:13:57 AM »
I'm having trouble deciding which would suck worse.

Given this Administration's "we're all winners!" philosophy, they would suck equally.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

roo_ster

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Re: The Criminal N.S.A.
« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2013, 10:35:22 AM »
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323823004578593591276402574.html?mod=rss_opinion_main
The NSA's Surveillance Is Unconstitutional
Congress or the courts should put a stop to these unreasonable data seizures.[/b]

Quote
By banning unreasonable “seizures” of a person’s “papers,” the Fourth Amendment clearly protects what we today call “informational privacy.” Rather than seizing the private papers of individual citizens, the NSA and CFPB programs instead seize the records of the private communications companies with which citizens do business under contractual “terms of service.” These contracts do not authorize data-sharing with the government. Indeed, these private companies have insisted that they be compelled by statute and warrant to produce their records so as not to be accused of breaching their contracts and willingly betraying their customers’ trust.

Quote
With the NSA’s surveillance program, the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court has apparently secretly approved the blanket seizure of data on every American so this “metadata” can later provide the probable cause for a particular search. Such indiscriminate data seizures are the epitome of “unreasonable,” akin to the “general warrants” issued by the Crown to authorize searches of Colonial Americans.

Still worse, the way these programs have been approved violates the Fifth Amendment, which stipulates that no one may be deprived of property “without due process of law.” Secret judicial proceedings adjudicating the rights of private parties, without any ability to participate or even read the legal opinions of the judges, is the antithesis of the due process of law.

In a republican government based on popular sovereignty, the people are the principals or masters and those in government are merely their agents or servants. For the people to control their servants, however, they must know what their servants are doing.

A commenter:
Quote
The trouble is, we know absolutely nothing is going to be done to stop these programs. The author says Congress and the courts SHOULD stop them. We know they won't. What we need is a plan for how to stop them.
Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton

brimic

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Re: The Criminal N.S.A.
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2013, 10:48:15 AM »
I know RevDisk will probably get a kick out of this:

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/06/jim-sensenbrenner-nsa-violated-law-92348.html

Even the chief architect of the Patriot Act is freaking out about rights violations and abuses by the NSA.
"now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb" -Dark Helmet

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Barack Obama

brimic

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Re: The Criminal N.S.A.
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2013, 10:51:32 AM »
Quote
The NSA's Surveillance Is Unconstitutional

When was the last time 'Constitutional' mattered?
"now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb" -Dark Helmet

"AK47's belong in the hands of soldiers mexican drug cartels"-
Barack Obama

TommyGunn

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Re: The Criminal N.S.A.
« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2013, 12:35:29 PM »
When was the last time 'Constitutional' mattered?


1912.
MOLON LABE   "Through ignorance of what is good and what is bad, the life of men is greatly perplexed." ~~ Cicero

Balog

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Re: The Criminal N.S.A.
« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2013, 12:47:21 PM »
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

AZRedhawk44

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Re: The Criminal N.S.A.
« Reply #16 on: July 12, 2013, 12:48:03 PM »
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

I reject your authoritah!

roo_ster

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Re: The Criminal N.S.A.
« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2013, 12:24:34 PM »
GOP leaders pushed to allow House vote on defunding the NSA

Read more: http://thehill.com/blogs/defcon-hill/policy-and-strategy/311057-rep-amash-vows-to-defund-nsa-surveillance-programs#ixzz2ZE5d0wDS

Quote
Rep. Justin Amash (R-Mich.) is mounting a push this week to defund the surveillance programs at the National Security Agency.

Amash said Monday that the defense appropriations bill, which could come to the House floor this week, was a chance to stop the NSA’s “unconstitutional spying on Americans.”

“Most important bill this week: DoD Approps. We can defund #NSA's unconstitutional spying on Americans--if House leaders allow amendments, Amash tweeted Monday.

House Republican leaders are considering limiting amendments to the defense bill out of concern for proposals that Amash and other lawmakers might bring forward.

Rules Committee Chairman Pete Sessions (R-Texas) wrote to his colleagues last week that the panel might limit amendments, a departure from the open amendment process that’s been used on the defense bill since Republicans took over in 2011.


Pete has been pretty good on liberty issues in the past.  Not so much, this tim earound.

For my own part, ideally we wouldn't stop 100% of the NSA's hoovering, just that of Americans without a MF-ing warrant in compliance with the 4th Amendment.

But, I think NSA (and POTUS, SCOTUS, and Congress) needs a swift kick to the jimmy to understanf the gravity of hte offenses.
Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton

Balog

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Re: The Criminal N.S.A.
« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2013, 02:44:24 PM »
Justin Amash is carrying on the Ron Paul tradition of being both ideologically correct and politically ineffective.
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

RevDisk

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Re: The Criminal N.S.A.
« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2013, 11:02:01 AM »
I know RevDisk will probably get a kick out of this:

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/06/jim-sensenbrenner-nsa-violated-law-92348.html

Even the chief architect of the Patriot Act is freaking out about rights violations and abuses by the NSA.

Ayep. Well, color me unsurprised. The Patriot Act was passed with even more shenanigans than Obamacare, and some of us were screaming our heads off at the time. Republicans didn't care, and thought it was the bee's knees at the time.

I specifically said, over and over again, this will be used against YOU when you are no longer in power.

Call me cynical, but I imagine the GOP will do effectively nothing. Because they will want the same toys when they next come into power.
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: The Criminal N.S.A.
« Reply #20 on: July 17, 2013, 01:28:55 PM »


Call me cynical, but I imagine the GOP will do effectively nothing. Because they will want the same toys when they next come into power.

Gandalf told us all we need to know about Rings of Power.

Quote
Understand, Frodo. I would use this ring from a desire to do good... But through me, it would wield a power too great and terrible to imagine.

Power always corrupts and destroys.  Melt the ring.  Undo the Patriot Act.  And 90% of our laws written since the 19th century.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

I reject your authoritah!

Scout26

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Re: The Criminal N.S.A.
« Reply #21 on: July 17, 2013, 03:05:11 PM »
And 90% of our laws written since the 19th century 1783.  And provide that each law shall sunset after 7 years.  Period. Full Stop. End.  If they like it they can pass new one.

FTFY
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

roo_ster

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Re: The Criminal N.S.A.
« Reply #22 on: July 17, 2013, 05:31:54 PM »
Gandalf told us all we need to know about Rings of Power.

Power always corrupts and destroys.  Melt the ring.  Undo the Patriot Act.  And 90% of our laws written since the 19th century.

AZR for POTUS.  I want someone in the office who had to be dragged, kicking and screaming.
Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton

Nick1911

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Re: The Criminal N.S.A.
« Reply #23 on: July 17, 2013, 05:34:55 PM »
AZR for POTUS.  I want someone in the office who had to be dragged, kicking and screaming.

I have always wondered how well conscripted politicians would work out.

RevDisk

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Re: The Criminal N.S.A.
« Reply #24 on: July 17, 2013, 06:15:28 PM »
I have always wondered how well conscripted politicians would work out.

Congress has a 10-15% approval rating, and has for as long as I recall...

Statistically, it'd be impressive to do a worse job.
"Rev, your picture is in my King James Bible, where Paul talks about "inventors of evil."  Yes, I know you'll take that as a compliment."  - Fistful, possibly highest compliment I've ever received.