Author Topic: Film condemned, again!  (Read 12093 times)

De Selby

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Re: Film condemned, again!
« Reply #25 on: April 01, 2008, 07:45:38 PM »
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I'm worried about the nonviolent majority who want global domination under Shariah Law.  I don't care how subjectively noble the goals of peace and freedom are, when the version of "freedom" is "follow our rules, pay a tax if you want to follow another religion, or get out" that's not freedom at all.

Where is this "majority" at?  I certainly have never encountered it.

Vernal, the key to that article is: 
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A report posted on Islam Watch,

That is the equivalent of "Jew Watch", but targeting Muslims instead of Jews.  They even use the same name-possibly on purpose, to show their kinship with religious intolerants of other stripes.

"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

Perd Hapley

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Re: Film condemned, again!
« Reply #26 on: April 05, 2008, 04:01:59 AM »
anyone who disagrees with your sect is an infidel and therefore has no rights.

You totally read my mind!  We're going to go beat up some Baptists.  Wanna come? 
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seeker_two

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Re: Film condemned, again!
« Reply #27 on: April 05, 2008, 06:47:34 AM »
anyone who disagrees with your sect is an infidel and therefore has no rights.

You totally read my mind!  We're going to go beat up some Baptists.  Wanna come? 

Me! Me!......though at one time it would have been self-abuse......
Impressed yet befogged, they grasped at his vivid leading phrases, seeing only their surface meaning, and missing the deeper current of his thought.

Sergeant Bob

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Re: Film condemned, again!
« Reply #28 on: April 05, 2008, 07:17:46 AM »
anyone who disagrees with your sect is an infidel and therefore has no rights.

You totally read my mind!  We're going to go beat up some Baptists.  Wanna come? 

Is this going to be yet another detour in our quest to club baby seals? undecided
Personally, I do not understand how a bunch of people demanding a bigger govt can call themselves anarchist.
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Scout26

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Re: Film condemned, again!
« Reply #29 on: April 05, 2008, 09:45:20 AM »
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We're going to go beat up some Baptists.  Wanna come?


Naaah, they tend to fight back/be armed.  Unitarians on the other hand.......    angel


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Is this going to be yet another detour in our quest to club baby seals?

Not so much a "detour" as "practice"......


Hey, ShootinStudent.  Do you have the report where any Imam's and/or Islamic lawyers repudiated/rejected what Makin and Choudary stated ??   
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Film condemned, again!
« Reply #30 on: April 05, 2008, 09:50:00 AM »
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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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De Selby

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Re: Film condemned, again!
« Reply #31 on: April 05, 2008, 12:52:36 PM »

Hey, ShootinStudent.  Do you have the report where any Imam's and/or Islamic lawyers repudiated/rejected what Makin and Choudary stated ??   

Sure.  Note that Choudary's argument is similar to bin laden's-he doesn't claim that the unbeliever status of england is what makes it subject to attack-he claims that ALL english are guilty of killing Muslims, and therefore may be subjected to retaliatory attacks.  It is a sick claim, but not the same as "kill all unbelievers", and it's also rejected by the overwhelming majority of scholars.

http://www.livingislam.org/maa/dcmm_e.html
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The result in Islamic jurisprudence is: if a Muslim carries out such an attack voluntarily, he becomes a murderer and not a martyr or a hero, and he will be punished for that in the Next World.

That's a particularly well researched and written opinion. 

Statements condemning this are easy to find-here's a video where the group of Muslims makes it obvious what a clown Choudary is: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/4690034.stm
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

Dntsycnt

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Re: Film condemned, again!
« Reply #32 on: April 06, 2008, 03:35:09 PM »
I'll have to take back my earlier statement about the majority of Muslims.

I purchased and read the book Who Speaks For Islam published by the Gallup Press.  It presents data from one of the biggest, most intricate surveys in history.  It is fascinating, and I recommend everyone here to read it.

It's very clear that the majority of muslims want the same thing American Christians want: freedom and democracy with a spiritual conscience.  Now, I'm an atheist and think that any time religion is used to guide government we end up with loads of unjust laws, but it's pretty apparent that vast majority of Muslims (Yes, even middle Eastern Muslims) have the exact same perspective as American Christians:  that is, not their holy book as law, or even their holy men as lawmakers, but their holy book to be a source from which to inspire laws. 

I challenge anyone here to read said book, honestly evaluate/analyze the data presented, and see if your perspective isn't radically changed.  For too long we've been going at this with loose, emotional, media driven and anecdotal approaches.  It's time we approach this in a methodical, logical way.  This is a small book, but a heavy one, full of not only numerical data and observations about that data, but a detailed description of how they went about collecting and analyzing it.  In the words of the final paragraph of the introduction of the book:

"Many of Gallup's findings challenge conventional wisdom and therefore will surprise and even anger many people.  In the spirit of scientific inquiry, we encourage readers to question and challenge what they learn.  As Albert Einstein said, 'The important thing is not to stop questioning.'  He also said, 'A man should look for what is, and not for what he thinks should be.'  We therefore offer what follows for your objective consideration.  Let the data lead the discourse."

hitbackfirst

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Re: Film condemned, again!
« Reply #33 on: April 07, 2008, 09:55:39 PM »
Probably everyone that wants to see the film has done so by now, but if anyone is still looking for a copy, I uploaded an avi file to make it easy. http://rapidshare.com/files/103613615/fitna.avi

I watched the film, and though it definitely won't win any awards for cinematic excellence, I think it makes some valid points:
1. Some muslims want to kill anyone who disagrees with them.
2. The ones who wish to do so tend to spread their ideas around.
3. We're in deep s**t!  grin

Regolith

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Re: Film condemned, again!
« Reply #34 on: April 07, 2008, 11:02:48 PM »
I'm not even sure if evil atheists get the pay-the-tax loophole or not...

Historically (middle ages, possibly pre-20th century), no.  Christians and Jews were given a pass as they were seen as followers of god, just not as advanced along the path of enlightenment as followers of Islam.  Hence the tax.

"Heathens"/non-believers were given a choice:  convert or die. 
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Manedwolf

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Re: Film condemned, again!
« Reply #35 on: April 07, 2008, 11:40:19 PM »
The ironic thing is that about 25,000 people just went crazy in Pakistan, burning the guy in effigy several times, calling for violence, all that stuff, because the film said they were violent.

Ironic, because Wilders could just take the video of that and put it up as "Fitna 2: Told You So".

Matthew Carberry

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Re: Film condemned, again!
« Reply #36 on: April 08, 2008, 09:57:31 AM »
anyone who disagrees with your sect is an infidel and therefore has no rights.

You totally read my mind!  We're going to go beat up some Baptists.  Wanna come? 

Me! Me!......though at one time it would have been self-abuse......

That's frowned on by Baptists.  grin
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Re: Film condemned, again!
« Reply #37 on: April 08, 2008, 03:35:27 PM »
Yeah, it could lead to...

Dancing with Yourself, oh-oh-oh-oh...

Regards,

roo_ster

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wideym

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Re: Film condemned, again!
« Reply #38 on: April 28, 2008, 05:14:13 AM »
The problem with Islam is that the "peaceful" majority will not take action against the "violent radicals".  Instead they fault the victims of the radicals for not being "sensitive to our religion". 

MicroBalrog

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Re: Film condemned, again!
« Reply #39 on: April 28, 2008, 06:52:12 AM »
The problem with Islam is that the "peaceful" majority will not take action against the "violent radicals".  Instead they fault the victims of the radicals for not being "sensitive to our religion". 

Strange. I've read that since 2001 there's been a rise in moderate-Muslim presence and anti-extremist propaganda on the Arab-speaking Internet.

Since I know no Arabic, I cannot confirm or deny.
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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Film condemned, again!
« Reply #40 on: April 28, 2008, 12:06:02 PM »
Peaceful Muslims opposing their violent,radical brethren are a large part of the reason Iraq quieted down in the past half year.  So it does seem to work. 

Now, if only we could get that peaceful-Muslims-opposing-violence thing to spread to places like Palestine...

RocketMan

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Re: Film condemned, again!
« Reply #41 on: April 28, 2008, 01:36:09 PM »
The problem with Islam is that the "peaceful" majority will not take action against the "violent radicals".  Instead they fault the victims of the radicals for not being "sensitive to our religion". 

Strange. I've read that since 2001 there's been a rise in moderate-Muslim presence and anti-extremist propaganda on the Arab-speaking Internet.

Since I know no Arabic, I cannot confirm or deny.

Can you post a link or three?  Might be informative reading.
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