Author Topic: Supreme Court upholds photo ID law for voters in Indiana  (Read 9335 times)

Desertdog

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Supreme Court upholds photo ID law for voters in Indiana
« on: April 28, 2008, 07:03:51 AM »
If Photo ID law is legal in Indiana it should be legal in all states.  Now, let's see if the lawmakers will pass it for their state.  I feel that the idiots in Washington should require it for all Federal elections.

Supreme Court upholds photo ID law for voters in Indiana
By MARK SHERMAN, Associated Press Writer
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080428/ap_on_go_su_co/scotus_voter_id
 


WASHINGTON - The Supreme Court ruled Monday that states can require voters to produce photo identification without violating their constitutional rights, validating Republican-inspired voter ID laws.

In a splintered 6-3 ruling, the court upheld Indiana's strict photo ID requirement, which Democrats and civil rights groups said would deter poor, older and minority voters from casting ballots. Its backers said it was needed to prevent fraud.

It was the most important voting rights case since the Bush v. Gore dispute that sealed the 2000 election for George W. Bush. But the voter ID ruling lacked the conservative-liberal split that marked the 2000 case.

The law "is amply justified by the valid interest in protecting 'the integrity and reliability of the electoral process,'" Justice John Paul Stevens said in an opinion that was joined by Chief Justice John Roberts and Anthony Kennedy. Stevens was a dissenter in Bush v. Gore in 2000.

Justices Samuel Alito, Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas also agreed with the outcome, but wrote separately.

Justices Stephen Breyer, Ruth Bader Ginsburg and David Souter dissented, just as they did in 2000.

More than 20 states require some form of identification at the polls. Courts have upheld voter ID laws in Arizona, Georgia and Michigan, but struck down Missouri's. Monday's decision comes a week before Indiana's presidential primary.

The decision also could spur efforts to pass similar laws in other states.

Ken Falk, legal director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Indiana, said he hadn't reviewed the decision, but he was "extremely disappointed" by it. Falk has said voter ID laws inhibit voting, and a person's right to vote "is the most important right." The ACLU brought the case on behalf of Indiana voters.

The case concerned a state law, passed in 2005, that was backed by Republicans as a way to deter voter fraud. Democrats and civil rights groups opposed the law as unconstitutional and called it a thinly veiled effort to discourage elderly, poor and minority voters  those most likely to lack proper ID and who tend to vote for Democrats.

There is little history in Indiana of either in-person voter fraud  of the sort the law was designed to thwart  or voters being inconvenienced by the law's requirements. For the overwhelming majority of voters, an Indiana driver license serves as the identification.

"We cannot conclude that the statute imposes 'excessively burdensome requirements' on any class of voters," Stevens said.

Stevens' opinion suggests that the outcome could be different in a state where voters could provide evidence that their rights had been impaired.

But in dissent, Souter said Indiana's voter ID law "threatens to impose nontrivial burdens on the voting rights of tens of thousands of the state's citizens."

Scalia, favoring a broader ruling in defense of voter ID laws, said, "The universally applicable requirements of Indiana's voter-identification law are eminently reasonable. The burden of acquiring, possessing and showing a free photo identification is simply not severe, because it does not 'even represent a significant increase over the usual burdens of voting.'"

Stevens said the partisan divide in Indiana, as well as elsewhere, was noteworthy. But he said that preventing fraud and inspiring voter confidence were legitimate goals of the law, regardless of who backed or opposed it.

Indiana provides IDs free of charge to the poor and allows voters who lack photo ID to cast a provisional ballot and then show up within 10 days at their county courthouse to produce identification or otherwise attest to their identity.

Stevens said these provisions also help reduce the burden on people who lack driver licenses.

Manedwolf

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Re: Supreme Court upholds photo ID law for voters in Indiana
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2008, 07:10:32 AM »
I like the way they do voting here. When it's your turn to go vote, they announce your full name, and "Of" your town name. Feels very, well...American. As in, early America. I like it.

But yes, you do need a photo ID.

El Tejon

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Re: Supreme Court upholds photo ID law for voters in Indiana
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2008, 07:12:18 AM »
Our photo ID law is "strict"? rolleyes

"Little history" of voter fraud in Indiana?  Maybe this reporter has not heard of East Chicago, Gary, Jennings County or little known Indianapolis. rolleyes

At a CLE conference last summer in Indy I asked Kenny Falk if he wins his voter ID case then can he help me in overturning the ID requirement to purchase a firearm.  You should have seen his look--like a squirrel on LSD! grin
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Firethorn

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Re: Supreme Court upholds photo ID law for voters in Indiana
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2008, 08:27:00 AM »
The way I look at it, voter fraud disenfranchises other people.  If 5k people vote for candidate A, 4.5k for B, plus 600 fraudulent for B, we have a problem.

Races have frequently been close enough in recent elections that 600 votes isn't much.

So the question I'd ask is simply, how many votes can we expect to prevent with the ID requirements?  How many poor/disabled/forgot ID people will be unable to cast their vote because of the requirement?  If X > Y then it's a good policy.

I happen to think that it's likely to prevent more fraud than it disenfranchises.  So I'm for it.  I already have to show ID for various things, so it shouldn't be that big of a deal.

Desertdog

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Re: Supreme Court upholds photo ID law for voters in Indiana
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2008, 09:19:19 AM »
Quote
So the question I'd ask is simply, how many votes can we expect to prevent with the ID requirements?
I think that the only fraud it will stop is some of the personal voting for dead and phony names, but I really don't see where it will stop the operatives that fill out ballots in the back room and run them throug the counter as needed to win.

Remember some of the questionable vote counts  such as, every recount more ballots that were found for the winning candidate, and many other irregularities.

Just a few examples;
Was the 2004 Election Stolen?
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10432334/was_the_2004_election_stolen

The 2004 US Elections: The Mother of all Vote Frauds
www.whatreallyhappened.com/2004votefraud.html

The Conyers Report: What Went Wrong in Ohio
www.truthout.org/docs_05/010605Y.shtml

E-voting irregularities raise eyebrows, blood pressure
www.usatoday.com/tech/news/techpolicy/2004-11-03-evote-trouble_x.htm

HankB

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Re: Supreme Court upholds photo ID law for voters in Indiana
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2008, 10:09:39 AM »
The way I look at it, voter fraud disenfranchises other people.  If 5k people vote for candidate A, 4.5k for B, plus 600 fraudulent for B, we have a problem.

Races have frequently been close enough in recent elections that 600 votes isn't much.
A couple of elections ago, Robert "B-1 Bob" Dornan (R-CA) lost his re-election bid for the US Congress. A post-election sampling (only a sampling!!) counted more actual fraudulent ballots cast than his opponent's margin of victory - yet the results were allowed to stand.

. . . I asked Kenny Falk if he wins his voter ID case then can he help me in overturning the ID requirement to purchase a firearm . . .
I'm going to shamelessly steal this line and put it in my mental file of "quick witty comebacks" to use if the voter ID requirement ever comes up for debate over lunch at work.  grin
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Henry Bowman

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Re: Supreme Court upholds photo ID law for voters in Indiana
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2008, 11:48:21 AM »
Quote
At a CLE conference last summer in Indy I asked Kenny Falk if he wins his voter ID case then can he help me in overturning the ID requirement to purchase a firearm.  You should have seen his look--like a squirrel on LSD!
I would have loved to have seen that!
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wmenorr67

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Re: Supreme Court upholds photo ID law for voters in Indiana
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2008, 01:33:32 PM »
A few years ago here in Tulsa they had to redo an election for city council because it was proven that people voted that lived at vacant lots or were dead.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Supreme Court upholds photo ID law for voters in Indiana
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2008, 02:31:03 PM »
Missouri's ID law got blasted!   angry   
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Desertdog

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Re: Supreme Court upholds photo ID law for voters in Indiana
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2008, 04:47:12 PM »
Quote
Missouri's ID law got blasted!
Seeif they will go for it again

Waitone

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Re: Supreme Court upholds photo ID law for voters in Indiana
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2008, 05:35:58 PM »
One can tell how far a society has degenerated by how many problems at one time were solved by using common sense have to go to court.  Maybe I'm a little slow, but it seems common sense to me one would have to provide identification.  But I guess common sense won't allow for either party to harvest the bumper crop of new americans during an election.

I'm not there yet but I am fast approaching the point where I think the only legitimacy our federal government has is based on a "fair" (quite laughing, stay with me) election.  Diddle with the election process by flooding it with outta towners, or electronic balloting with no paper trail, or too much party control over the process and I'm of the opinion our government just lost its claim on my loyalty.  Then again I haven't slept in 24 hours so I might just be a little light-headed.
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Standing Wolf

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Re: Supreme Court upholds photo ID law for voters in Indiana
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2008, 05:48:58 PM »
Quote
It was the most important voting rights case since the Bush v. Gore dispute that sealed the 2000 election for George W. Bush.

Sore loser.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Supreme Court upholds photo ID law for voters in Indiana
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2008, 08:06:40 PM »
Quote
Missouri's ID law got blasted!
Seeif they will go for it again

Oh, no doubt.  I haven't read up on the details.  Maybe there was a problem that needed to be addressed, so the court might have made the right call.  In any case, I won't be doing anything about it.  I don't do nothin' no more. 
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Manedwolf

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Re: Supreme Court upholds photo ID law for voters in Indiana
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2008, 08:27:12 PM »
Dead voters were such a problem in Miami that the spoof parade they have every year after New Years included a "League of Dead Voters", a bunch of zombies shambling down the street, clutching ballot cards. cheesy

wideym

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Re: Supreme Court upholds photo ID law for voters in Indiana
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2008, 03:51:09 AM »
The main reason for burying people above ground in New Orleans is to get them to the polls faster.

I laugh every time I hear the excuse that the elderly, poor, or minorities don't have ID.  In todays society you cannot get anything done without picture ID.  Bank accounts, using debit card, cashing checks, even buying over the counter cold medicines not to mention just plain driving a car. 

MicroBalrog

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Re: Supreme Court upholds photo ID law for voters in Indiana
« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2008, 03:58:29 AM »
I do not understand this thread.

I thought that, in America, there was no national ID, and that outside a driver's license or a passport, the government(s) issued little other forms of identification?

How does one get a photo ID if one does not drive?
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Manedwolf

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Re: Supreme Court upholds photo ID law for voters in Indiana
« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2008, 04:23:15 AM »
I do not understand this thread.

I thought that, in America, there was no national ID, and that outside a driver's license or a passport, the government(s) issued little other forms of identification?

How does one get a photo ID if one does not drive?

Every state I know of will issue you a basic ID card if you don't drive, via the department of motor vehicles office. It's not linked to anything more than the state DMV rolls, it's just a basic ID card.

MicroBalrog

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Re: Supreme Court upholds photo ID law for voters in Indiana
« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2008, 04:25:36 AM »
I do not understand this thread.

I thought that, in America, there was no national ID, and that outside a driver's license or a passport, the government(s) issued little other forms of identification?

How does one get a photo ID if one does not drive?

Every state I know of will issue you a basic ID card if you don't drive, via the department of motor vehicles office. It's not linked to anything more than the state DMV rolls, it's just a basic ID card.

So one does not have to be able to drive, just provide proof of citizenship, a passport-sized photo, and a processing fee?

Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

Manedwolf

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Re: Supreme Court upholds photo ID law for voters in Indiana
« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2008, 04:28:54 AM »
Yes. Not even a photo, they have a digital camera with which they take a typical photo that makes you look undead, and the plastic card comes out a few minutes later.

You usually just need an official copy of your birth certificate, as well as proof of residency, which can even be a utility bill.

El Tejon

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Re: Supreme Court upholds photo ID law for voters in Indiana
« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2008, 04:33:39 AM »
Quote
I thought that, in America, there was no national ID, and that outside a driver's license or a passport, the government(s) issued little other forms of identification?

How does one get a photo ID if one does not drive?

Micro, by walking down to the Indiana Bureau of Motor Vehicle office near my house, plopping down $13.00, have my picture taken and then get my State ID card which is valid for 6 years.  BTW, if you want the card just for voting, the State ID is FREE.

Indiana ID Card:  http://www.in.gov/bmv/3700.htm

No, you do not need to be a citizen to have a State ID, the ladies at the BMV take the photo, and yes there is a $13 fee (unless you need it to vote or are 65+).

I was over in court early this morning for a guilty plea and saw how Indiana's Voter ID law is stopping fraud.  A couple from Illinois was trying to vote early at the courthouse and got caught red handed when they tried to vote with their Illinois DLs. laugh

Lafayette is midway between Chicago and Indy on I-65.  We are getting a lot of Obama voters from Illinois trying to vote early, but we are stopping them. grin



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MicroBalrog

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Re: Supreme Court upholds photo ID law for voters in Indiana
« Reply #20 on: April 29, 2008, 05:02:19 AM »
Thank you.

*scribbles notes for his eventual happy life as a citizen*
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Scout26

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Re: Supreme Court upholds photo ID law for voters in Indiana
« Reply #21 on: April 29, 2008, 09:23:57 AM »
Quote
It's not linked to anything more than the state DMV rolls,


Yes, keep believeing that, Comrade..... [adjusts tinfoil hat....]
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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Supreme Court upholds photo ID law for voters in Indiana
« Reply #22 on: April 29, 2008, 09:46:03 AM »

I laugh every time I hear the excuse that the elderly, poor, or minorities don't have ID.  In todays society you cannot get anything done without picture ID.  Bank accounts, using debit card, cashing checks, even buying over the counter cold medicines not to mention just plain driving a car. 
Not having an ID is a non-issue in Indiana.  As El T says, if by some freak chance you don't already have an ID you can get one for free at your local BMV branch. 

The election authorities run ads in the weeks before elections reminding people that they need an ID to vote and telling them how to get one.

There is no excuse for someone in Indiana not knowing they need an ID to vote, or for not having one with them when they get to the polls.  The only people our voter-ID law prevents from voting are those who aren't eligible.

Manedwolf

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Re: Supreme Court upholds photo ID law for voters in Indiana
« Reply #23 on: April 29, 2008, 10:13:21 AM »
Quote
It's not linked to anything more than the state DMV rolls,


Yes, keep believeing that, Comrade..... [adjusts tinfoil hat....]

They're pretty good here. They'll also expunge your photo and SS# from all DMV records if you ask, with the caveat that you need to bring in a birth certificate for renewal.

Firethorn

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Re: Supreme Court upholds photo ID law for voters in Indiana
« Reply #24 on: April 29, 2008, 11:05:44 AM »
So one does not have to be able to drive, just provide proof of citizenship, a passport-sized photo, and a processing fee?

Often times, more along the lines of 'proof of residence', no photo, and the fee(which may be waived).

With RealID, you might need proof of citizenship, or at least legal residence.  Most of the time the ID is issued at the DMV along with drivers licenses, so they take your picture there.  Processing fee is generally along the lines of 'Try not to lose it'.  It was $5 for the last state I remember seeing the fee schedule for it.  I seem to remember one state having standard ID cards be free for the first one, $X to replace before the renewal period(IE lost or destroyed card).

The free ones really start coming out with the tie in to voting - if you're going to require ID to vote, you have to make a free form of ID available, otherwise it could be considered a poll tax by the court system(even if only $5-13 for six years), getting the whole ID thing thrown out.