Author Topic: Plan to cut ACLU money pipeline advances  (Read 2249 times)

Desertdog

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,360
Plan to cut ACLU money pipeline advances
« on: September 09, 2006, 08:13:22 PM »
Plan to cut ACLU money pipeline advances
Congressman's effort would prevent group from collecting taxpayers' cash
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=51907

A plan that would cut off the pipeline of taxpayer money that now flows into American Civil Liberties Union coffers has been advanced by the House Judiciary Committee.

The Public Expression of Religion Act, introduced by Indiana Congressman John Hostettler, now will move to the full House for a vote, he said in his announcement this week.

"This is a big victory for Americans who care about our rich religious heritage in this country," he said. "There is a lot of excitement about this bill."

It has been vigorously supported by the American Legion, where Commander Rees Lloyd described it as "a long overdue victory for justice, freedom, democracy, and the First Amendment."

"The American Legion has fought for reform of the attorney fee provisions of federal law which the ACLU has exploited to reap millions of dollars in taxpayer-paid attorney fees in Establishment Clause cases," Lloyd's statement said.

He said the ACLU has used the threat of the fees as 'a club' to bludgeon local elected bodies into surrendering to the ACLU's "secular cleansing demands."

The plan came about after the ACLU, "the Taliban of American liberal secularism," according to Lloyd, sued to tear down a cross on a rock outcrop erected by veterans as a memorial to World War I veterans in 1934 in the remote Mojave Desert.

Officials noted someone would have to drive 11 miles off the highway "to be offended" by the cross.

There had been no complaints against the memorial in 60 years, until the ACLU sued to have it removed, and then asked for and got $63,000.

"The American Legion," said former American Legion National Commander Tom Bock, "is in full support" of the plan. He said it would take away the authority of judges to award attorney fees to the ACLU in lawsuits under the Establishment Clause.

The law, approved in 1976, originally was to help individual citizens bring lawsuits against state officials who had deprived them of their constitutional rights. However, Hostettler believes it has been abused by groups like the ACLU, who claim any public official who expresses religious beliefs or displays a memorial with religious imagery, like the crosses at Arlington National Cemetery, is promoting the "establishment of religion."

For example, in 2001 Iowa county officials removed a Ten Commandments monument from a courthouse lawn rather than face the attorney's fees threatened. And in 2004, Los Angeles removed a tiny cross from the county seal when it was threatened with those fees.

Kansas Sen. Sam Brownback has similar legislation pending in the Senate.

In an endorsement of the plan, the American Legion quoted Thomas Jefferson:

"The germ of dissolution of our federal government is in our federal judiciary; an irresponsible body, working like gravity by night and by day, gaining a little today and a little tomorrow, and advancing in its noiseless step like a thief & until all shall be usurped from the States, and the government of all be consolidated into one."

One such case that currently is grinding its way through the court system involves the Mt. Soledad Veterans Memorial in California.

The ACLU has been fighting to remove that for 17 years, even though 76 percent of the people in San Diego where it is located want it to stay.

Fly320s

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,415
  • Formerly, Arthur, King of the Britons
Plan to cut ACLU money pipeline advances
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2006, 05:11:33 AM »
I never knew that the ACLU received tax dollars (our dollars) as reimbursement.

Isn't the ACLU a private organization?  They aren't a division of the federal government, such as a subsidiary of the Department of Agriculture, are they?
Islamic sex dolls.  Do they blow themselves up?

Desertdog

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,360
Plan to cut ACLU money pipeline advances
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2006, 05:45:06 AM »
"Isn't the ACLU a private organization?"
Yes,  they are private.   When they get a judge to rule in their favor they file a bill for all of their "expenses" to pursue their claim.

As they normally sue Government bodies, then it is tax payers money that pays them for their "expenses".

Guest

  • Guest
Plan to cut ACLU money pipeline advances
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2006, 06:22:39 AM »
Quote from: Desertdog
"Isn't the ACLU a private organization?"
Yes,  they are private.   When they get a judge to rule in their favor they file a bill for all of their "expenses" to pursue their claim.

As they normally sue Government bodies, then it is tax payers money that pays them for their "expenses".
If a person is wronged by the government they should be compensated for the money they had to spend to make it right. Now, how that applies to the ACLU specifically might be worthy of debate, but the system of compensation exists for a good reason.

Guest

  • Guest
Plan to cut ACLU money pipeline advances
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2006, 10:17:14 AM »
Quote from: c_yeager
Quote from: Desertdog
"Isn't the ACLU a private organization?"
Yes,  they are private.   When they get a judge to rule in their favor they file a bill for all of their "expenses" to pursue their claim.

As they normally sue Government bodies, then it is tax payers money that pays them for their "expenses".
If a person is wronged by the government they should be compensated for the money they had to spend to make it right. Now, how that applies to the ACLU specifically might be worthy of debate, but the system of compensation exists for a good reason.
I have had several long standing 'debates' concerning the ACLU with, well, pretty much any liberal whom I can stand to talk with.  Like how the "system of compensation exists for a good reason" so does the ACLU by its founding principals.  In practice however...

The ACLU IS comprised of a bunch of extortionists.  The ACLU does engage in the most ridiculous of court battles, often awarded their 'expenses' even when they lose.  This is indeed the case of the not for profit organization with management making 6 figure incomes and full time staff with medical plans.  Who still of course exploit the crap out of volunteers.  

Meanwhile in cases where there really is an issue most people could get behind, a nice reasonable case, they leave it be.  This is an organization that relishes its reputation for being 'radical'.  Unfortunately its no longer the 'radical' notions of voter registration of the poor or oppressed but rather the promotion of radical non-individualism.  This is the monsterous organization our tax money supports.

I would like to say that some individual chapters have done a lot of good.  Its rather like the Boy Scouts or the NAACP where there are radical nut jobs on top destroying the laudable principals of an organization's foundations.

Waitone

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,133
Plan to cut ACLU money pipeline advances
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2006, 11:09:05 AM »
Name the hotbutton issue.  Congress writes laws to protect knowing the federales does not have the resources to enforce said laws.  Enforcement is made possible by writing compensation rules which allow filing attorneys to recover their fees along with substantial damages.  The techniques has the effect of hiding the true cost of protecting from public oversight.  It also creates a sizeable intimidation factor for those sued.  The ACLU is particularly successful in recovering costs and damages to the extent of having its victims just plain roll over to avoid a suit.  You can see the same techniques used in environmental and disabilities law.  

When the likes of Newt Gingrich says it is time to defund the left, they are referring this kind of federal law.  Look for more movement to defund along different lines.  Tax exempt foundations are being targeted also.
"Men, it has been well said, think in herds. It will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one."
- Charles Mackay, Scottish journalist, circa 1841

"Our society is run by insane people for insane objectives. I think we're being run by maniacs for maniacal ends and I think I'm liable to be put away as insane for expressing that. That's what's insane about it." - John Lennon

Guest

  • Guest
Plan to cut ACLU money pipeline advances
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2006, 02:27:12 PM »
Quote
Meanwhile in cases where there really is an issue most people could get behind, a nice reasonable case, they leave it be.
Popular causes dont really need advocates, now do they?

Guest

  • Guest
Plan to cut ACLU money pipeline advances
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2006, 02:58:55 PM »
Quote from: c_yeager
Quote
Meanwhile in cases where there really is an issue most people could get behind, a nice reasonable case, they leave it be.
Popular causes dont really need advocates, now do they?
Actually... yes, they do.  Thats the thing about the 'silent majority'.  People are busy enough having to work and take care of their own families.  For the best angle on this I like to think of the proper governance groups running on shoestring budgets.  Exposing fraud and massive goverment oversight saving which saves the taxpayers billions.  But as it saves everyone money and not a select group, pretty thankless job.  

*Popular doesn't mean interesting*

Its generally more accounting and fact checking, not just accusation and claim making.

Guest

  • Guest
Plan to cut ACLU money pipeline advances
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2006, 06:13:17 PM »
Quote from: Ned Hamford
Thats the thing about the 'silent majority'.
The real thing about the "silent majority" is that its a nifty way for people with unpopular beliefs to fool themselves into thinking that the world agrees with them. How do you even know that the "silent majority" exists if it is so silent?

Desertdog

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,360
Plan to cut ACLU money pipeline advances
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2006, 06:55:54 PM »
Quote
How do you even know that the "silent majority" exists if it is so silent?
Out of approx. 300 million people in this country; what is about the maximum number to turn out for any demonstration?  I believe ther is usually far less than one million.  That leaves awhole lot of silent people,  ie: the "silent majority".

Car Knocker

  • friend
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 192
Plan to cut ACLU money pipeline advances
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2006, 07:33:10 AM »
I think "apathetic majority" would be more appropriate.
Don

Iain

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,490
Plan to cut ACLU money pipeline advances
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2006, 08:04:29 AM »
Quote from: Car Knocker
I think "apathetic majority" would be more appropriate.
Exactly.

Ever see the Family Guy episode about the FCC? 'We've had 16 complaints about that show last night, and as we all know 1 complaint equals 1 billion people, so 16 billion people were offended.'
I do not like, when with me play, and I think that you also

MicroBalrog

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,505
Plan to cut ACLU money pipeline advances
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2006, 12:36:40 PM »
So.

In America, if you spill hot coffee on yourself, you sue McDonalds, they settle, you win money.

But if the state violates your most essential Constitutional rights, this should somehow not be the case?
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

Desertdog

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,360
Plan to cut ACLU money pipeline advances
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2006, 01:00:32 PM »
Quote
But if the state violates your most essential Constitutional rights
Please clearify which BORs the ACLU is protecting by trying to remove ALL Christian related signs/sights in public places?

MicroBalrog

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,505
Plan to cut ACLU money pipeline advances
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2006, 03:33:19 PM »
Quote from: Desertdog
Quote
But if the state violates your most essential Constitutional rights
Please clearify which BORs the ACLU is protecting by trying to remove ALL Christian related signs/sights in public places?
What about their freedom of speech lawsuits? And do you believe there is absolutely no separation between Church/State?
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

roo_ster

  • Kakistocracy--It's What's For Dinner.
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21,225
  • Hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats
Plan to cut ACLU money pipeline advances
« Reply #15 on: September 12, 2006, 05:35:36 AM »
Quote from: MicroBalrog
Quote from: Desertdog
Quote
But if the state violates your most essential Constitutional rights
Please clearify which BORs the ACLU is protecting by trying to remove ALL Christian related signs/sights in public places?
What about their freedom of speech lawsuits? And do you believe there is absolutely no separation between Church/State?
Hey, nice topic switch.  No way to defend a particular point,? Change the subject!

We had a SOCAS debate over at THR.  If you recall, the wall of SOCAS was written in a letter by Thomas Jefferson.  Why this has any bearing on the COTUS, which TJ had no hand in authoring, is beyond me.  Dredge up some correspondence by Gouverneur Morris referring to SOCAS to some random target and I might be more amenable to such arguments.  Dredge up references to SOCAS by GM in the context of the Constitutional Convention and I will listen with pricked ears.  Be aware, however, that GM argued both for and against just about every principle stated in the COTUS.

The ACLU is rotten from its anti-American leftist branches to its red roots.
Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton

Guest

  • Guest
Plan to cut ACLU money pipeline advances
« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2006, 03:20:42 PM »
Quote from: Desertdog
Out of approx. 300 million people in this country; what is about the maximum number to turn out for any demonstration?  I believe ther is usually far less than one million.  That leaves awhole lot of silent people,  ie: the "silent majority".
So not showing up to protest an issue means a "silent vote" for the opposition? Thats idiocy.

Perd Hapley

  • Superstar of the Internet
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 61,475
  • My prepositions are on/in
Plan to cut ACLU money pipeline advances
« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2006, 04:39:25 PM »
I don't think that's his point.  I think the point is that a million protestors might make us think that their position enjoys majority support.  But in fact, a million is still a minority and there may be many more who actually oppose the idea, but in quieter ways.
"Doggies are angel babies!" -- my wife

Desertdog

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,360
Plan to cut ACLU money pipeline advances
« Reply #18 on: September 12, 2006, 05:03:00 PM »
Quote
I don't think that's his point.  I think the point is that a million protestors might make us think that their position enjoys majority support.  But in fact, a million is still a minority and there may be many more who actually oppose the idea, but in quieter ways.
Precisely.  1 million/300 million = 0.033% or written out = 1/3 of one percent.  That leaves 99.67% not heard from.

Guest

  • Guest
Plan to cut ACLU money pipeline advances
« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2006, 06:12:02 PM »
Quote from: fistful
But in fact, a million is still a minority and there may be many more who actually oppose the idea, but in quieter ways.
Yes there *may* be many more who think otherwise, my point is that there also might *not* be. Making an assumption either way makes no sense.

Perd Hapley

  • Superstar of the Internet
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 61,475
  • My prepositions are on/in
Plan to cut ACLU money pipeline advances
« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2006, 06:21:37 PM »
Point taken, but I was talking about people "who oppose the idea in quieter ways," not people who are completely silent.  So we can talk about a "silent majority" if it is actually a quiet majority.
"Doggies are angel babies!" -- my wife