Author Topic: I'd forgotten how big 13 inches is (Read 14432 times)

Lee · « **Reply #25 on:** July 31, 2011, 02:16:47 PM »

I live in Ohio
I can legally buy one of those...but can't legally carry it.
I can buy fireworks...but can't legally set them off.
I can buy a beta mag...but if I also own a gun that takes the mag....it is now a machine gun.
Ain't life grand.

Perd Hapley · « **Reply #26 on:** July 31, 2011, 02:31:49 PM »

Some teenager gave me this knife. I don't know why.

His older brother gave me his SKS, so maybe it runs in the family.

sanglant · « **Reply #27 on:** July 31, 2011, 03:25:18 PM »

doesn't sound good.

Monkeyleg · « **Reply #28 on:** July 31, 2011, 03:27:45 PM »

It's a Sicilian message. It means "Fistful sleeps in the library".

Perd Hapley · « **Reply #29 on:** July 31, 2011, 03:28:01 PM »

You think they're trying to dispose of murder weapons? Nah. They gave me other things, like lead pipes, candlesticks, ropes...

sanglant · « **Reply #30 on:** July 31, 2011, 03:29:31 PM »

oh, and i bought this setup a while back, storming bad tell you wahts wrong wit it latter.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003NCVYGG

storm's passed: first up, it was missing the thumb screw, e-mailed DMT to let them know. got the package really quickly,( 3 days or less) but they had sent me the posts.(think that's the word[things that the guide rod goes through]) tried to e-mail them and let them know, wasn't able.

'bout a week later, i got a second package from them, forget the thumb screw, they had sent me the entire clamp setup.

couldn't have been handled better, other then me being able to let them know earlier. next up, the extra fine surface loads up in around 30 passes*,(3 or 4 passes before i'm done with an edge) and the extra extra fine surface loads in 4 or 5 passes*.(15 or 20 before i'm done) keep something to clean them off with, and i can't say i've used better. but it is looking like i'll need a new XXF and maybe XF every 5 years or so.

i will be buying them though.

*with VG-10 and H1.

if i ever have the space, i'm planning on buying a XXC-XXF setup in 6 or 8 inch bench stones.

i saw these while looking. look nice, i just wanted something i didn't have to worry about taking a finger off with.
first up, the belt grinder. really click this link.

this one is just odd. and DMT makes diamond wheels for it.

if you don't plan on sharpening free hand, this setup is better. they make the XXC for it.(it's in the snow boarding stuff

) have now found out that you can't buy the holder for the things. i'll have to but an extra(duplicate) fine to get it.

any body know where to buy it alone?

that's a jumble, but it'll have to do.

seeker_two · « **Reply #31 on:** July 31, 2011, 08:06:03 PM »

Quote from: The artist formerly known as fistful on July 31, 2011, 03:28:01 PM

You think they're trying to dispose of murder weapons? Nah. They gave me other things, like lead pipes, candlesticks, ropes...

I wouldn't worry.....unless they start talking asking you about how much trunk space you have in your car....

230RN · « **Reply #32 on:** July 31, 2011, 11:22:27 PM »

Wow, at 13 inches, you almost might as well carry a machete. :)

When I was a kid, the butcher shop on the corner had one of those pedal-powered great big sandstone sharpening wheels with a drip can over it in his back yard.

Like this, but not perzackly:

The fenced yard was unlocked, and the butcher would allow us to just come in and use it to sharpen our knives.

All of us carried knives.

He was used to us getting water for the tin can dripper. Once in a while, if we helped him break up ice blocks or haul in the meat deliveries or even stock his shelves, he'd use his butcher's steel to dress our blades even sharper. It was a point of pride that "Mr. Bbbb sharpened mine for me," and the ones who were old enough to have hair on our arms would take the knife to shave a small patch off his arm. "Wo-o-ow!" was the usual reaction.

He also used to let us buy saltpeter (used as a meat preservative) from him.

He knew what for, of course.

Nowadays, he'd be run out of town on a rail, with feathers stuck on the tar stuck on him.

Ahhhh, good old Mr. Bbbbb. I'll never forget him.

Terry, 230RN

Pic credit in properties.

Perd Hapley · « **Reply #33 on:** July 31, 2011, 11:26:06 PM »

Quote from: 230RN on July 31, 2011, 11:22:27 PM

My opinion is that any kind of power sharpening pulls the temper right at the edge.

You mean it damages the temper?

When I was younger and dumber, I had an Ontario-made Kabar, and asked a guy at a knife shop to sharpen it for me. He used some kind of abrasive material, on a belt, turned by a motor. I was never able to put an edge on the darn thing again. Which is fine, since I soon realized that the Kabar is a dumb design. Sold it to a pawn shop.

230RN · « **Reply #34 on:** July 31, 2011, 11:40:02 PM »

"My opinion is that any kind of power sharpening pulls the temper right at the edge."

Yeah, I pulled that out of the post before you posted, but that's my opinion. If you're throwing sparks, that edge has to be hot, at least on a micro scale, and that's a thin part. (Think zero-thickness edge.)

Even though the amount of heat generated may be small, the temperature can be pretty high. Just run your fingernail rapidly over your jeans to see what I mean. Or strike a match on your jeans.

Probably OK for soft edges, like axes and hatchets and machetes and even some shop tools, but for a hardened, tempered knife edge made of cutlery steel, my opinion is that that zero-thickness edge gets hot and soft at that edge.

Later whetting may remove that soft edge, but why soften it in the first place?

sanglant · « **Reply #35 on:** July 31, 2011, 11:47:25 PM »

the ka-bar is a good knife. for what it was made for.

as for machine sharpeners/sharpening yeah it's a skill, a big part of why i went caveman.

but with a light touch, and moving quickly, you can get a very sharp edge. RDN.

and knowing what grit you should be on is important as well. reason the old pedal stones work well is there slow moving. start with to high a grit on a powered grinder and you're going to over heat the blade before you get the edge started. i would suggest starting with some old/junk and working you're way up to the good knifes with one. sorry didn't think it needed said here.

i'm good for that. another trick, that can be quite painful is to hold your thumb just behind the edge on the side of the blade(away from the belt/wheel) and as you feel heat. stop and wait for it to cool down. or dunk it in a bucket of water.

edit: yeah anything throwing sparks is bad.

CNYCacher · « **Reply #36 on:** August 01, 2011, 12:14:10 AM »

I had great success sharpening chisels using a belt sander with fine paper on it. I would unleash a steady stream of freezing liquid from an inverted duster can directly onto the belt just in front of the blade and onto the edge itself. They ground down nice and fast and came off super-frosty. After that it was over to my piece of plate glass with a wet piece of 5000-grit paper attached with spray adhesive. A few strokes just to setup the edge on the front, then flat on its back and a couple pushes to roll and remove the wire and you could slice a feather in two if you dropped it just right. I did all the guys' chisels in the shop after a while.

Boomhauer · « **Reply #37 on:** August 01, 2011, 09:00:28 AM »

Quote

Which is fine, since I soon realized that the Kabar is a dumb design

It's a nice shape for disposing of two legged adversaries...

But for a general utility knife I agree that the design is a bit lacking (the tang area is a weakness)

230RN · « **Reply #38 on:** August 02, 2011, 10:07:09 AM »

CNYCacher ;

Quote

I had great success sharpening chisels using a belt sander with fine paper on it. I would unleash a steady stream of freezing liquid from an inverted duster can directly onto the belt just in front of the blade and onto the edge itself. They ground down nice and fast and came off super-frosty.

That's a special case, using a freezing bath. I don't know much about cryotempering, but I wonder if the blade isn't being cryotempered or temporarily being hardened due to the cold during this operation anyhow. You know, cold stuff gets hard.

This, besides the rapid heat removal effect of keeping the blade cold.

Quote

After that it was over to my piece of plate glass with a wet piece of 5000-grit paper attached with spray adhesive. A few strokes just to setup the edge on the front, then flat on its back and a couple pushes to roll and remove the wire and you could slice a feather in two if you dropped it just right. I did all the guys' chisels in the shop after a while.

If you're getting a wire, my opinion would be that you've already destroyed the temper, at least on a local, micro basis. Getting a wire edge impies that you've softened something that shouldn't have been softened, and is now flexible enough to bend out of the way of the cutting action of the grit. Again, opinion.

The trick is to get a zero-thickness edge that is still hard enough to "keep," and although you can get a zero-thickness edge on a piece of bronze * so it will shave, that doesn't mean it will stay sharp for long. "Slicing a feather" once is one thing. slicing 1000 feathers is another.

Just opinionatin', willing to be challenged.

I suppose you could take a piece of plumber's lead and sharpen it to a zero thickness edge to shave one hair. (That's an exaggeration for the sake of illlustration.)

My Pop taught me a sharpening trick, which was, no matter what you're using, from coarse grit to fine, to leather strop, or whatever, use lighter and lighter strokes on the sharpening medium until you're ready for the next medium. Seems to work for me.

By the way, "zero thickness" is meant to be an ideal, not a practical limit, and only for things that need a "zero thickness" edge... not for, like, an axe, or a rotary lawnmower blade.

Terry, 230RN

* I seem to recall that's what they used for shaving once upon a time --bronze razors with olive oil for the "lather."

CNYCacher · « **Reply #39 on:** August 02, 2011, 10:13:35 AM »

at 5000 grit I was removing a theoretical wire which I never did see or feel. I just imagined that a few pushes with the back of the blade flat on the surface would be good and it seemed to work well.

230RN · « **Reply #40 on:** August 02, 2011, 10:27:15 AM »

^ I'm not disputing that the technique worked, just thinking about the micro-aspects of it, and sharpening in general. Let's face it, you have a very thin piece of metal, down to close to the crystalline structure thereof, and you're applying sharp rocks and bumpy leather to it with a comparatively rapid movement --when you think about all of this at that microscopic level.

One weird thing I've noticed, over the years of removing a cumulative 200 tons of facial hair since 1949 or so, is that a once-used razor blade seems to shave better than one right out of the box. It's almost as if drawing the blade over the "leather strop" of the face "re-hones" it or something.

My conclusion, whenever a sharpening thread appears, is that sharpening is spooky stuff.

Terry, 230RN

PS: Amusey-chuckle. I once got all set to shave, lathered up real good, started running the disposable razor around my face, and marveled at how smooooth this razor felt. Wow. What a blade! Then I noticed I had forgot to take off the plastic guard.

sanglant · « **Reply #41 on:** August 02, 2011, 08:18:49 PM »

you can get a burr/wire on a brand new well made knife, using bench stones

just how steel acts, although i normally start with cutting into the stone. keeps me from having to fight a burr. the DMT EF and EEF don't work that way.

they catch the edge. but they raise a nice small burr, so it doesn't take much to take it off. you can get rid of it by running your thumb from the spine over the edge, but don't go backwards. AT ALL!

and if you're sharpening your favorite slicer you can try running it over a 320-600grit surface after you're done. works kind of like serrations. but using a knives sharpened that way on tomatoes ruins them.

Monkeyleg · « **Reply #42 on:** August 02, 2011, 10:32:00 PM »

230RN, I've been trying to get a good sharp edge on this knife using a medium and fine stone, with a lubricant that came with the stones. It's an okay edge, but not nearly as sharp as what I have on a couple of other knives. Those are like razors.

The tip will cut newspaper like a razor knife, but pulling the blade along down the page of the newspaper leaves a slice with a slightly ragged edge (I need to use a magnifier to see that it's not as clean an edge as the slice from the tip).

Any suggestions?

230RN · « **Reply #43 on:** August 03, 2011, 11:47:57 AM »

^

> Possibly because you're generating a more acute edge angle on the tip than the body of the blade due to the changing blade angle as you run it over the stones. However, this would probably be the same for the other knives you've sharpened, so it could be just lousy steel or heat treatment.

> Possibly because the micro-serrations that inevitably form are different towards the tip than the body of the blade due to the angling effect.

> Possibly because you are cutting against the grain of the newpaper in one case but not on the other, or at a different angle.

> Most probably becuase the presentation of the edge is different when cutting with the tip than the body of the blade --the tip edge enters trhe paper more "gradually" than with the body. Combined with the possibly lousy steel (this knife seems to be different than your other ones.)

> Other guesses/conjectures from the members?

sanglant · « **Reply #44 on:** August 03, 2011, 01:40:57 PM »

if it's sharpened like a meat cleaver or some such, you could be thinning out the blade after the edge. actually this can be a handy skill to have. (it's easier with a lansky type setup.

{basically it's removing material that gets stuck in what you're cutting, but not paper.

}) to find out, you can look at the edge. or you can take a sharpy like pen, and mark the one or, both sides of the edge(just the edge, hard to clean off a whole blade) and then sharpen normally. don't do this on a really nice stone, stains them.

if the ink is wearing way evenly, then this ain't it.

kind of like checking tire pressures with chalk.

crap, forgot to ask. what kind of edge? if it started out as with a convex edge*, you'll have to go though the curve to get down to the edge. or workout a way to sharpen it back to a convex edge you can do this cheaply by rocking the blade on a stone, and sharpen one stones width at a time.

*random link with pic.

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Author Topic: I'd forgotten how big 13 inches is (Read 14432 times)