Why so much McCain hate?

[Balog]

I think we're at the sad point where neither major party really represents anything resembling conservatism.

[seeker_two]

I think we're at the sad point where neither major party really represents anything resembling conservatism.

...or the American citizenry..... 

[RevDisk]

Honestly, he has many positive qualities; war hero, supporter of campaign reform, enemy of pork-barrel legislation; but I haven't seen many people discuss these.

This man will most likely be the GOP candidate for POTUS, instead of bashing him, contact him and explain your qualms. Its easy to bash something or someone, rather than admit you don't care enough to do something about it.

While I admit, I'm generally biased (in a positive manner) towards vets, it ain't my sole detemination.  There's angels and monsters in unifrom.  I met plenty of both.  I'm not qual'd to speak of his military record because I'm not very familar with it besides a basic knowledge of him being a POW. 

Aside from that, your statements of "supporter of campaign reform" and "enemy of pork barrel legislation" are objectively incorrect.  If you use Orwellian double speak, you are technically correct.  A more realistic view shows the opposite.  McCain-Feingold is an incumbent protection act, not a campaign reform act.  Mr McCain is also a big supporter of expanding federal funding.  He is merely an enemy of pork he doesn't have a share in.  See Jim March's post for good starting points for further research. 

My beefs with him are simple.  Pro "Drug Warrior", very much into expanding federal funding, pro illegal immigration, little to no respect of civil rights and liberties, no understanding of technology or infrastructure (and no desire apparently to become familiar with them), and the Gods cursed McCain-Feingold.   I'm gathering you're not familiar with the law, as you appear to be a McCain supporter.  Here's a clue.  When the NRA and ACLU are holding hands screaming that something is un-Constitutional, insanely unwise and very destructive...   Might want to pay a bit more attention to it. 

I've read (some) of his statements towards the GWOT.  I disagree with many of his positions because I believe them unwise.  Not so much the end goal, but moreso in the means to accomplish them.  Burning down the village to save it doesn't work.  Being sneaky, tactful, vicious, half way smart, and killing the right folks tends to work wonders.  Even though I strongly disagree with him in many areas, he's much better than Obama or Clinton would be in this area.   Oy.

[Perd Hapley]

Ya know, a guy should be able to list a candidate's military experience among his other qualifications without others jumping to the conclusion that he thinks "war hero" must equal "totally awesome infallible statesman sent from God."  But people keep inferring that around here.    It's really not a very fair response.  I'm no fan of McCain, nor do I think military experience is the end-all of presidential qualities.  But it's certainly an asset. 

So let's trying responding to what is written, rather than to completely unwarranted leaps of logic inferred from out of the blue. 

[doc2rn]

McCain is pushing Bush's failed policies. The divide between the have and have nots is growing bigger, and he has not one original idea on how to handle the current energy crisis, because Big Oil Lobbiest are on his staff as contributors.

[Manedwolf]

The divide between the have and have nots is growing bigger.

So take some classes and become one of the haves. That's the nice thing about America. If you have a brain that works, you can do that.

[Balog]

I cringe whenever someone uses that insipid little phrase "haves and have nots." How about "earned and earned nots?" It's never used to support useful programs that might actually increase the prosperity of the middle class like lower taxes. It's invariably the precursor to a socialist screed calling for the redistribution of wealth.

[Tallpine]

McCain is Bush on meth 

[trapperready]

How about "earned and earned nots?"

My mother-in-law's stock reply if someone is complaining about paying too much in taxes is "If you don't want to pay as much in taxes, then earn less money." She thinks she's being quite clever with that.

However, she doesn't see the flip-side... "If you want to have more money, then earn more money."

She's reasonably bright and well-educated, but clings to this belief that if you just fling enough [of other people's money] at a problem, you'll make it go away. She's a huge believer in the "haves and have-nots" and thinks that it's an absolute moral imperitive for the "haves" to take care of the "have-nots".

[Manedwolf]

How about "earned and earned nots?"

My mother-in-law's stock reply if someone is complaining about paying too much in taxes is "If you don't want to pay as much in taxes, then earn less money." She thinks she's being quite clever with that.

However, she doesn't see the flip-side... "If you want to have more money, then earn more money."

She's reasonably bright and well-educated, but clings to this belief that if you just fling enough [of other people's money] at a problem, you'll make it go away. She's a huge believer in the "haves and have-nots" and thinks that it's an absolute moral imperitive for the "haves" to take care of the "have-nots".

Ask her if she hosts homeless people in her house, and if not, why not?

[Balog]

Hypocrisy is the hallmark of leftists of all stripes.

[MicroBalrog]

She's a huge believer in the "haves and have-nots" and thinks that it's an absolute moral imperitive for the "haves" to take care of the "have-nots".

I don't have a problem with that. Charity has been a known feature of Jewish, Muslim, and Christian culture for generations.

Of course, she likely means seizing and redistributing charity by force.

[trapperready]

My wife and I contribute quite a lot of money to a couple of charities. She also ends up doing a lot of charity work through her job, and I volunteer a considerable amount of my time to help others. We're in a position to help and do so willingly.

What I object to is acting as a "safety net" for people who have made poor choices or done nothing to better themselves or their situation. As examples, I think of my two sisters. One has essentially bankrupted herself and depleted her retirement savings in a well-intentioned but addlebrained attempt to put her kids through college. She was adamant that her kids not be saddled with school loans, and in supporting them, she used her retirement money (losing interest and incurring early-withdrawal penalties). Then, she calls and asks for other family members to lend/give her money to get by.

My other sister had multiple opportunities to attend college or a trade school on my parents' dime, but rejected the concept because she was a freakin' hippie and that kind of stuff just wasn't important to her. Now that she's in her mid-50s, has a low-paying job, no education and no savings, she's freaking out about the prospects for retirement.

On the other hand, I worked my rear off to get into a decent career. Initially, I worked for almost nothing, simply to gain experience and eventually did pretty well. My wife has worked like a dog since she was in high-school and has excelled through a combination of intelligence and pure determination. We have consistently made decent and reasonable choices about our finances and our personal lives, and are now seeing the benefits of having done so.

My mother-in-law looks at situations like this and thinks that we've gotten where we are by good fortune and thinks we should be paying something back to those who aren't as fortunate. I think we've done OK by hard work and good decision-making and have paid for our success along the way. It's why discussion at Thanksgiving is largely relegated to football and turkey recipes.

[RevDisk]

My mother-in-law looks at situations like this and thinks that we've gotten where we are by good fortune and thinks we should be paying something back to those who aren't as fortunate. I think we've done OK by hard work and good decision-making and have paid for our success along the way. It's why discussion at Thanksgiving is largely relegated to football and turkey recipes.

I seriously do wonder how people come to such conclusions.  "Hard work, good financial sense" being "Good fortune or just plain lucky".  People that ordinarily I consider somewhat intelligent somehow manage to blow all their money and wonder why they're not moving forward in life.

Thankfully, my ma was a tax accountant for many years.  Thankgiving dinner is often a speech that I'm not socking enough into my IRA, that I need to get a mortgage as it has tax advantages, and that if I insist on spending so much on ammo I should take up reloading (and put the savings into a Roth, not just shoot more).

[The Annoyed Man]

I seriously do wonder how people come to such conclusions.  "Hard work, good financial sense" being "Good fortune or just plain lucky".  People that ordinarily I consider somewhat intelligent somehow manage to blow all their money and wonder why they're not moving forward in life.

Thankfully, my ma was a tax accountant for many years.  Thankgiving dinner is often a speech that I'm not socking enough into my IRA, that I need to get a mortgage as it has tax advantages, and that if I insist on spending so much on ammo I should take up reloading (and put the savings into a Roth, not just shoot more).

Words of wisdom to live by. We all need them, and they never, ever come from politicians.

[seeker_two]

I seriously do wonder how people come to such conclusions.  "Hard work, good financial sense" being "Good fortune or just plain lucky".  People that ordinarily I consider somewhat intelligent somehow manage to blow all their money and wonder why they're not moving forward in life.

Thankfully, my ma was a tax accountant for many years.  Thankgiving dinner is often a speech that I'm not socking enough into my IRA, that I need to get a mortgage as it has tax advantages, and that if I insist on spending so much on ammo I should take up reloading (and put the savings into a Roth, not just shoot more).

Words of wisdom to live by. We all need them, and they never, ever come from politicians.

....except for the "not shooting more" stuff.....you got to draw the line somewhere.... 

[roo_ster]

I'll never forget the words of Dick Gephart:
"Winners of life's lottery."

It is a joke between a buddy & me.  Whenever I call him on the road traveling for work, he says, "Remember, when you get you pay check you are just a winner of life's lottery."

[Scout26]

My mother-in-law looks at situations like this and thinks that we've gotten where we are by good fortune and thinks we should be paying something back to those who aren't as fortunate. I think we've done OK by hard work and good decision-making and have paid for our success along the way. It's why discussion at Thanksgiving is largely relegated to football and turkey recipes.

I seriously do wonder how people come to such conclusions.  "Hard work, good financial sense" being "Good fortune or just plain lucky".  People that ordinarily I consider somewhat intelligent somehow manage to blow all their money and wonder why they're not moving forward in life.

Thankfully, my ma was a tax accountant for many years.  Thankgiving dinner is often a speech that I'm not socking enough into my IRA, that I need to get a mortgage as it has tax advantages, and that if I insist on spending so much on ammo I should take up reloading (and put the savings into a Roth, not just shoot more).

RevDisk, Do what your mother says..... 

[MechAg94]

Hell, my parents were telling me and my brothers about thinking for ourselves and taking responsibility for ourselves since we were in diapers.  My Dad always said we should find a career we like, but that we should be able to find something we like that is better than what he does.  I remember he always pushed us to think about that early.  We all three made it through college and are doing better than he did.  He's happy.

[RocketMan]

I'll never forget the words of Dick Gephart:
"Winners of life's lottery."

Ms. Clinton said that a number of times (during her first Senate race or when she was stumping for hubby? me forget) and was roundly trounced for it in conservative circles.  Did she steal it from Gephardt?

[Perd Hapley]

One of Gephardt's cousins was my trig teacher, and our football coach.  He said things like "If you ain't sweatin', you ain't workin'."  I always wondered if his politics was a little different from Dick's. 

[antsi]

I bet he would sign an AWB in a NY minute.


He has said he would sign it under the right circumstances

Could you please link to a citation of this quote?

The statement you are attributing to him directly contradicts his official campaign platform, and contradicts his Senate voting record.

I would like to see where he said this, when he said it, and what exactly he said.

[longeyes]

Politics is the art of the possible.  We have a choice between a Marxist and a wobbly.  Go with the pragmatic.

Either way we are headed for rancor and division...or much worse.  America is terminally split.  How we deal with that grim reality is the real problem.

[HankB]

. . . America is terminally split.  How we deal with that grim reality is the real problem.

Prohibit use of the word "Diversity" (or euphemisms that mean the same) in all government job titles and job descriptions?

[Manedwolf]

. . . America is terminally split.  How we deal with that grim reality is the real problem.

Prohibit use of the word "Diversity" (or euphemisms that mean the same) in all government job titles and job descriptions?

They'll never do that. They did, however, prohibit the use of the word "jihad".