Author Topic: Sarah Palin's "boobgate"  (Read 11594 times)

Perd Hapley

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Re: Sarah Palin's "boobgate"
« Reply #25 on: June 14, 2010, 12:33:46 AM »
If I have a broken computer, that doesn't make it a new and special kind of computer.  It's just broken.  I view gender identity illnesses and genetic anomalies the same way.  A male who views himself as a female is broken in some way.  Yes they are people who are just as valuable and worthy of every human right and freedom as the rest of us.  This is not a statement of value.  But the fact remains that they are outside of what could be considered a fully functioning human.  The human species is a dual-sex organism that requires both to reproduce, just as with many animals.  Our sex organs are designed to facilitate this.  If your brain chemistry, or the physical makeup of those sex organs is in such a way that makes that sort of reproduction impossible, you are essentially malfunctioning.  I view the idea of homosexuality as being genetic under this same light.  A bear that has a genetic predilection to not reproduce is a malfunctioning bear.  A male fish that has a genetic predilection not to fertilize female eggs is a malfunctioning fish.  And a human that has a genetic predilection to have sexual relations that cannot under any circumstance result in reproduction is essentially a malfunctioning human.

I just don't believe in a world where we declare absolutely everything to be just as good and normal as anything else.  This is not a statement about the value of a person.  This is not a condemnation of how people choose to live.  If a male human decides he'd rather wear dresses and do other things that females usually do, that is his choice.  But I'll call it how it is: a male who has certain tastes or desires.  Not a female trapped in a males body.  Simply put, your true gender is your gender.  Not whatever desires your mind has constructed for itself over your lifetime.

Common sense?  How dare you?
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KD5NRH

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Re: Sarah Palin's "boobgate"
« Reply #26 on: June 14, 2010, 03:33:59 AM »
The woman is, quite frankly, attractive, and the lefties can't stand it. Not sure why.

Because she's also educated and successful.  They think only ugly women should be successful; attractive women are supposed to find successful husbands.

taurusowner

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Re: Sarah Palin's "boobgate"
« Reply #27 on: June 14, 2010, 03:56:23 AM »
I think a lot of the hatred for Sarah Palin by the extreme Left has it's roots in radical feminism.  That brand of feminism, like many of the other "equality struggles" the Left champions, is really not about equality and freedom at all.  The radical feminists don't want women to have true freedom of choice any more than  Al Sharpton wants racism to go away.  What they both mean by freedom and equality is the freedom to choose the path we want.  Ask any homemaker mother who has chosen on her own to be a stay at home mom.  Is her free choice to live that life style met with cheers from feminists? Of course not.  To feminists, the only real choice is theirs: to reject any idea of contemporary family or gender roles. The feminists are truly just as rigid in their ideas of gender roles as the most sexist man.  the only difference is that what they see the proper role of a woman being.  Sarah Palin crosses that line.  Sarah Palin is liberated, free to choose her own path, educated, and not held captive by anything.  But she has also chosen on her own to live a life where she has a husband, goes to church, raises her children, and is  critical of ideas such as telling 12 year old girls it's not only OK, but liberating to screw around and have abortions at will.

Sarah Palin just doesn't fit into their box.  She succeeded on her own and rejected the dogma of radical feminists.  And they hate her for it.

seeker_two

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Re: Sarah Palin's "boobgate"
« Reply #28 on: June 14, 2010, 05:46:08 AM »
In reference to the OP....

After intensive study of the two pics in the article, I'm confident in reporting that the only "boob job" Palin has had was working with the McCain campaign...  :facepalm:
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roo_ster

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Re: Sarah Palin's "boobgate"
« Reply #29 on: June 14, 2010, 07:51:05 AM »
roo_ster,

Not to interfere with you and MB, but what gender is someone with XXY chromosomes?  Say, Kleinfelters Mosaic?

I look forward to your explanation.

RD pretty much nailed it. 



WRT Sarah Palin and the feminists who despise her, it bears repeating that contemporary feminism grew out of marxism.
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roo_ster

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MicroBalrog

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Re: Sarah Palin's "boobgate"
« Reply #30 on: June 14, 2010, 08:12:57 AM »
Stated in the first complete sentence of the post:
"Mental illness that does not respond to meds does not mean it is not mental illness."

See.

You were the one who brought up meds. If we argue - as you do - that the fact that some individuals respond to medication means that they're mentally ill (not quite scientifically correct), then it's quite obvious that this argument doesn't apply to people who don't respond to medication.

In actual fact, gender is not - neither biologically, due to the variation in the shape of human bodies, nor mentally - a cut-and-dry black/white M/F phenomenon. There are individuals, born with XY chromosomes and the complete set of female genitals, who live out their lives as females and are happy about that. There are people with a variety of variation on this theme.

The computer example is actually a good one. Had I stealthily broken into your house at night, wiped your hard drive, and installed an operating system on your computer that is not compatible with what you want to do with it, this would have meant that I have broken your computer - even if I am now capable to play my favorite games on it, because the computer isn't mine. It's

I - and everybody else with the exception of the completely raving mad - own my body. My body is a tool towards my purposes (since I don't happen to believe in a Divine purpose for my body. And if your argument is based on a Divine purpose for my body, we'll have  to just agree to disagree).

It is my right - not just, mind you, a right in the political sense, but a right in the moral sense - to have my body improved and altered in any shape that technology will allow.

I have the right to get tattooed.

I have the right to get plastic surgery.

I have the right to have a new gender.

Anything that the surgeons agree to install in me, I have the right to get.

Soon, technology will arise to allow me to give birth, or to live forever, or to replace my right limb with a massive, metallic, hydraulic monstrosity that can punch through a car door. I have a right to all these and more.
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KD5NRH

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Re: Sarah Palin's "boobgate"
« Reply #31 on: June 14, 2010, 08:14:02 AM »
After intensive study of the two pics in the article,

I'm more disappointed in her steadfast refusal to reveal the primary evidence here for public perusal than in any of BP's supposed "coverups."

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Re: Sarah Palin's "boobgate"
« Reply #32 on: June 14, 2010, 08:24:24 AM »
It is my right - not just, mind you, a right in the political sense, but a right in the moral sense - to have my body improved and altered in any shape that technology will allow.

I have the right to get tattooed.

I have the right to get plastic surgery.

I have the right to have a new gender.

Anything that the surgeons agree to install in me, I have the right to get.

Soon, technology will arise to allow me to give birth, or to live forever, or to replace my right limb with a massive, metallic, hydraulic monstrosity that can punch through a car door. I have a right to all these and more.

Tattooed transvestite immortal Israeli cyborg...that could be the makings of a movie that would make Zardoz pale in cheesiness.

roo_ster

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Re: Sarah Palin's "boobgate"
« Reply #33 on: June 14, 2010, 09:02:29 AM »
See.
<lotsa words>

Lotsa words.  Little said WRT the query and answer. 

Quote
In actual fact, gender is not - neither biologically, due to the variation in the shape of human bodies, nor mentally - a cut-and-dry black/white M/F phenomenon. There are individuals, born with XY chromosomes and the complete set of female genitals, who live out their lives as females and are happy about that. There are people with a variety of variation on this theme.

As was written elsewhere, they are not a different sex, they are a genetic error or error in fetal development. A broken male or female.  A Darwinian dead end.
Regards,

roo_ster

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Monkeyleg

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Re: Sarah Palin's "boobgate"
« Reply #34 on: June 14, 2010, 09:50:23 AM »
The feminist's problems with Sarah Palin are that she's a Republican/conservative, fairly politically, and attractive both physically and to the public. In short, she's a threat to Democrats.

Non-Democrats cannot be women, according to the feminists, and anything that Democrat men of power do is not sexist. Bill Clinton used his power to get sex from women and may have even committed rape, but he was still a-ok with the feminists.

What credibility and ideals the feminist movement may have had forty years ago is long gone. They're just another bunch of Democrat whores, no different than the NAACP.

MechAg94

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Re: Sarah Palin's "boobgate"
« Reply #35 on: June 14, 2010, 10:02:11 AM »
The feminist's problems with Sarah Palin are that she's a Republican/conservative, fairly politically, and attractive both physically and to the public. In short, she's a threat to Democrats.

Non-Democrats cannot be women, according to the feminists, and anything that Democrat men of power do is not sexist. Bill Clinton used his power to get sex from women and may have even committed rape, but he was still a-ok with the feminists.

What credibility and ideals the feminist movement may have had forty years ago is long gone. They're just another bunch of Democrat whores, no different than the NAACP.
Politically successful women or blacks must be Democrats.  Those who aren't must be destroyed. 

I don't understand the problem with the pictures shown.  They are completely different outfits that fit differently and look different. 
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taurusowner

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Re: Sarah Palin's "boobgate"
« Reply #36 on: June 14, 2010, 10:05:27 AM »
Quote
See.

You were the one who brought up meds. If we argue - as you do - that the fact that some individuals respond to medication means that they're mentally ill (not quite scientifically correct), then it's quite obvious that this argument doesn't apply to people who don't respond to medication...

...

...Soon, technology will arise to allow me to give birth, or to live forever, or to replace my right limb with a massive, metallic, hydraulic monstrosity that can punch through a car door. I have a right to all these and more.

You're right.  You have the right to modify your own body however you want.  But that doesn't make you a new person.  Cutting off your male parts doesn't make you a woman any more than wearing a dress does.  I don't have to refer to you in the terms your mind think you are.  If you were born a male, you are a male.  Maybe a defective male, but a male nonetheless.

CNYCacher

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Re: Sarah Palin's "boobgate"
« Reply #37 on: June 14, 2010, 11:15:15 AM »
Soon, technology will arise to allow me to give birth, or to live forever, or to replace my right limb with a massive, metallic, hydraulic monstrosity that can punch through a car door. I have a right to all these and more.

You do have a right to those things.

That doesn't mean you are a robot tragically stuck in a human body.
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Sarah Palin's "boobgate"
« Reply #38 on: June 14, 2010, 12:16:10 PM »
Quote
I don't have to refer to you in the terms your mind think you are.  If you were born a male, you are a male. 

You don't have to do anything.

The thing is, if I meet a person with breasts and the formal signs of feminine identity, I will treat them as a female, not ask for a genetic test. Where these breasts came from I really don't care. If the situation so evolves and we decide to have sex each other, and it transpires the person also has a vagina, I will have sex with them, not ask for a genetic test.

Your mileage may vary.

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taurusowner

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Re: Sarah Palin's "boobgate"
« Reply #39 on: June 14, 2010, 01:02:46 PM »
You're right that I don't have to do anything.  I kinda wish that message would get passed on to the militant LGBT types.  Maybe it's because I live in Ann Arbor Michigan, but there is a lot of "you WILL accept and acknowledge whatever lifestyle I choose as perfectly alright" attitude in this city.  This city tends to be a worst-of-the-worst example of Leftism, behind only some California cities.  Around here it's expected, and enforced with shouting and vulgar insults, that you accept everything they shove in your face no matter how much it may conflict with your personal beliefs.  The "live and let live" attitude you're talking about doesn't exist in Ann Arbor.

BridgeRunner

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Re: Sarah Palin's "boobgate"
« Reply #40 on: June 14, 2010, 01:06:20 PM »
Maybe it's because I live in Ann Arbor Michigan,

You seriously live in Ann Arbor?  Wow.

I'm sorry.  I have some good friends in Ann Arbor.  It's kind of like New York.  Nice place to visit...

MicroBalrog

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Re: Sarah Palin's "boobgate"
« Reply #41 on: June 14, 2010, 01:09:59 PM »
Are you implying I am a leftist?
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taurusowner

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Re: Sarah Palin's "boobgate"
« Reply #42 on: June 14, 2010, 01:13:36 PM »
Are you implying I am a leftist?

Are you talking to me?

No seriously, are you?  I'm not sure.

And Bridgewalker, yep.  The belly of the beast and all that.  I even used to work at a small grocery store about 75 meters from the Diag.  My Ronald Reagan shirt and "Give War A Chance" shirt proved to be a source of endless laughs ;)

Balog

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Re: Sarah Palin's "boobgate"
« Reply #43 on: June 14, 2010, 04:03:38 PM »
Even for APS this has been some weird thread drift.
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makattak

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Re: Sarah Palin's "boobgate"
« Reply #44 on: June 14, 2010, 04:09:19 PM »
Even for APS this has been some weird thread drift.

I thought for sure I'd clicked the LGBT thread when I read some of this stuff.
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roo_ster

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Re: Sarah Palin's "boobgate"
« Reply #45 on: June 14, 2010, 04:43:07 PM »
Are you talking to me?

I never knew Ragnar was Joe Pesci's handle here on APS

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roo_ster

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seeker_two

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Re: Sarah Palin's "boobgate"
« Reply #46 on: June 15, 2010, 05:56:07 AM »

If the situation so evolves and we decide to have sex each other, and it transpires the person also has a vagina, I will have sex with them, not ask for a genetic test.


You know....just because someone has a vagina doesn't mean you have to have sex with that person...it's OK to be a little more picky...  =|
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Sarah Palin's "boobgate"
« Reply #47 on: June 15, 2010, 07:57:56 AM »
You know....just because someone has a vagina doesn't mean you have to have sex with that person...it's OK to be a little more picky...  =|

Are you deliberately misreading my post?
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Firethorn

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Re: Sarah Palin's "boobgate"
« Reply #48 on: June 15, 2010, 09:23:00 AM »
I just don't believe in a world where we declare absolutely everything to be just as good and normal as anything else.  This is not a statement about the value of a person.  This is not a condemnation of how people choose to live.  If a male human decides he'd rather wear dresses and do other things that females usually do, that is his choice.  But I'll call it how it is: a male who has certain tastes or desires.  Not a female trapped in a males body.  Simply put, your true gender is your gender.  Not whatever desires your mind has constructed for itself over your lifetime.

How do you determine gender?

As was written elsewhere, they are not a different sex, they are a genetic error or error in fetal development. A broken male or female.  A Darwinian dead end.

Some of them are fertile...

Okay, I'm going to approach this from a different angle.  I'll agree with you - they're broken.  Theoretically speaking, if we could fix the 'problem' in the womb, we would.  However, we're STILL talking about a human being.  A 'cure' post-embryo stage is a no-go.

Still, which measure are you using to determine 'gender'?  Genetic?  Physical?  Obviously not Mental.  Personally, I tend to go '2 out of 3' or 'balance of the evidence', especially when it comes to matters of law.  Surgury, while radical, is a far more developed science than messing with the brain at that level.

Let's consider this situation:
XY with 'Complete Androgen Insensitivity' or Swyer syndrome(similar effects, different cause)- Genetically male.  Due to a specific known defect in a receptor; the fetus will develop as a female, the mind will be female* in outlook.  Sure, they're infertile, but so isn't a lot of XY guys and XX girls.  Sometimes not discovered until after they've married and are looking to see why they can't have children.  Swyer shows up earlier when the 'girl' doesn't undergo puberty.

People with partial androgen insensitivity range the gamut from guys with smaller, less functional penises and gonads to people externally female, often even internally w/defects/oddness. 

So, what's your solution here?

I've read reports that it's possible to tell gay people via brain scans - homosexuals scan like women in certain parts of the brain, lesbians like men.

In the end, I think that some of this stuff is genetic, some developmental - perhaps even pre-natal.  As mentioned, due to politicizing proper studies aren't really possible.  Personally, I'd take a couple thousand kids, conduct regular brain scans, go back and look for differences for those that turn out gay.  Might give us a clue as to when it starts...  I also have a theory for why married older men occasionally 'come out of the closet' so late in life - a sort of midlife crisis, a male 'menopause', perhaps, that causes hormonal shifts, essentially turning what was at least a straight-leaning individual more towards a 'gay' orientation.  They then, at least sometimes, proceed to re-interpret their own memories to think that they were always gay.

Then again, when I asked a GBLT type what would happen if, theoretically speaking, some brilliant but wierd scientist came out with a cocktail of hormones, takable in pill form over a course of time, that would change a gay person to a straight one.  Well, when it's further tested, it's found that Verson A makes whoever takes it(male or female) like women, Verson B, men.  They denounced me. 

*Generally speaking, lacking other factors.

The fact that many do respond well, though, is a hint that the problem is in their heads and not their dangly bits.

Thing is, it's often easier to change their dangly bits over changing their heads.

paul

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Re: Sarah Palin's "boobgate"
« Reply #49 on: June 15, 2010, 12:01:37 PM »
Quote
So, what's your solution here?

Please allow me to interrupt...
I don't think anyone is offering a "solution"...
More like an understanding that this anomaly is not something we should be forced to celebrate.
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