Author Topic: Mexico wants ATF agents extradited (Read 13099 times)

AZRedhawk44 · « **on:** July 05, 2011, 01:02:56 PM »

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/07/05/mexican-lawmakers-want-extradition-for-us-officials-responsible-for-botched/

Oh dear G-d in Heaven please make this happen!

My ideal resolution to this whole mess consists of:
1. The Senate opening an inquiry all the way up to Eric Holder, or possibly even Obama.
2. Holder (Obama?) getting convicted of Treason and facing capital punishment.
3. All of Holder/Obama's underlings involved in this being extradited to Mexico to rot in Mexican prisons for the rest of their lives.

The idea of a bunch of ATF agents (including some Directors, perhaps) in a Mexican jail just makes my inner child go "squee!" in giddy happiness.

kgbsquirrel · « **Reply #1 on:** July 05, 2011, 01:13:47 PM »

My wild guess on this matter is that Holder/Obama will capitulate to a foreign government that does not respect our own sovereignty ("I obviously feel violated. I feel my country's sovereignty was violated," Mexico Sen. Rene Arce Islas

) and will throw a few low ranking ATF agents under the bus (that is heading to Mexico) and that no one of consequence and responsibility will face any sort of punitive action.

*looks around* We need a cynic smiley... I guess this one will do.

longeyes · « **Reply #2 on:** July 05, 2011, 02:07:27 PM »

I'm sure they can find a suitable quorum of expendable agents. No one is going to touch the men who gave the orders.

zxcvbob · « **Reply #3 on:** July 05, 2011, 02:27:53 PM »

Don't forget the State Department.

(I think international arrest warrants against Holder, Clinton, and Obama for illegal arms trafficking, racketeering, accessory to murder of federal agents, etc. would be sweet. Even tho' our .gov would never turn them over)

AJ Dual · « **Reply #4 on:** July 05, 2011, 02:36:54 PM »

It'll never happen.

Even the most pro-RKBA/anti-BATF administration imaginable wouldn't do it, because the ancillary issues of sovereignty and loyalty/morale within the various fed.gov alphabet soup orgs are just too great.

Considering that gunrunner was probably more about creating a false problem that needed correcting to try and reign in RKBA and gun sales in America, which is arguably one of the current administration's desires, "under the radar" so to speak, they won't hang them out to dry with Mexico either.

longeyes · « **Reply #5 on:** July 05, 2011, 03:15:07 PM »

The international community is not interested in what many in this country may regard as grounds for treason, the deliberate attempt to undermine, by fraud, the Second Amendment. If anything they would side with the agenda.

zxcvbob · « **Reply #6 on:** July 05, 2011, 03:24:52 PM »

Quote from: longeyes on July 05, 2011, 03:15:07 PM

The international community is not interested in what many in this country may regard as grounds for treason, the deliberate attempt to undermine, by fraud, the Second Amendment. If anything they would side with the agenda.

But the international community is very interested (perhaps overly so) in gun smuggling, and that's what was going on. The motive for it doesn't really matter.

longeyes · « **Reply #7 on:** July 05, 2011, 06:51:58 PM »

Are they? Doesn't it depend on who ends up with the guns and who profits from their transfer? Let's be real about this. Crimes that further the bigger agenda are winked at.

stevelyn · « **Reply #8 on:** July 05, 2011, 11:07:43 PM »

Mebbe we should start with an apology from that POS Calderone who insulted us from the floor of Congress.

Nothing I would like more than to see waffen BATFEces thugs and that weasal Holder rotting in a Mexican jail, but Calderone was/is part of the problem too.

Bigjake · « **Reply #9 on:** July 05, 2011, 11:31:04 PM »

Even the rotten bastards that inhabit the BATFEIEIO don't deserve that fate. I take serious issue with setting a precedent that even pretends the Mexican's have some form of legitimate government. Those pathetic 3rd world wannabe thugs can go piss up a rope.

We can deal with our own scum here.

TommyGunn · « **Reply #10 on:** July 05, 2011, 11:40:38 PM »

The ATF goons will not be extradited. I would believe it to be a certain type of "karmic justice" if they were but it is a soveignty thing; we could never allow our officials to be removed to another country like that.
The question is will WE be able to prosecute them? We didn't even get Horiuchi for the Ruby Ridge fiasco and I don't think any agent was hurt after Waco ... so my hopes are not high.

brimic · « **Reply #11 on:** July 06, 2011, 03:19:29 PM »

We should make a deal with Mexico: they take back their illegals and make a concerted effort to prevent them from coming over the border and we'll take back our guns and make a concerted effort to not allow them across their border, then throw the BATFE in as part of the deal.

Win win win.

Balog · « **Reply #12 on:** July 06, 2011, 03:36:30 PM »

Quote from: brimic on July 06, 2011, 03:19:29 PM

We should make a deal with Mexico: they take back their illegals and make a concerted effort to prevent them from coming over the border and we'll take back our guns and make a concerted effort to not allow them across their border, then throw the BATFE in as part of the deal.

Win win win.

Best political idea ever.

brimic · « **Reply #13 on:** July 06, 2011, 04:05:17 PM »

Quote

Best political idea ever.

You know what will really happen, if anything, right?
Put on the thinking cap and think of the most immoral and distorted outcome of this scenario and you should come close....

My take:
The sellers at the gun shops who were told to sell to the straw buyers are going to be thrown to the wolves.

Balog · « **Reply #14 on:** July 06, 2011, 04:06:38 PM »

Yeah I know. Don't ruin my beautiful dream with your damned reality, man.

SADShooter · « **Reply #15 on:** July 06, 2011, 06:09:19 PM »

FOX just reported indications of FBI and DEA involvement and failure to share intelligence with ATF.

Waitone · « **Reply #16 on:** July 06, 2011, 06:12:29 PM »

Quote from: brimic

My take:
The sellers at the gun shops who were told to sell to the straw buyers are going to be thrown to the wolves.

Close but no cigar.

Try this one on for size: Straw buyers were FBI and DEA informants
http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com Quoting from a letter by Grassley and Issa to Holder

Quote

The Role of DEA, FBI, and Other Agencies

When confronted with information about serious issues involving lack of information sharing by other agencies, which Committee staff had originally learned from other witnesses, Mr. Melson's responses tended to corroborate what others had said. Specifically, we have very real indications from several sources that some of the gun trafficking "higher-ups" that the ATF sought to identify were already known to other agencies and may even have been paid as informants. The Acting Director said that ATF was kept in the dark about certain activities of other agencies, including DEA and FBI. Mr. Melson said that he learned from ATF agents in the field that information obtained by these agencies could have had a material impact on the Fast and Furious

___________________________________________
Government Accountability Office, "Department of Health and Human Services-Chief Actuary's Communications with Congress," B-302911 (Sep. 7, 2004) (discussing the history and background in support of the government-wide prohibition on attempts to prevent direct communications with Congress). As you know, obstructing or impeding a Congressional inquiry is also a criminal violation under 18 U.S.C. Â§ 1505.

Page 3 of 5

investigation as far back as late 2009 or early 2010. After learning about the possible role of DEA and FBI, he testified that he reported this information in April 2011 to the Acting Inspector General and directly to then-Acting Deputy Attorney General James Cole on June 16, 2011.[/b]

The evidence we have gathered raises the disturbing possibility that the Justice Department not only allowed criminals to smuggle weapons but that taxpayer dollars from other agencies may have financed those engaging in such activities. While this is preliminary information, we must find out if there is any truth to it. According to Acting Director Melson, he became aware of this startling possibility only after the murder of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry and the indictments of the straw purchasers, which we now know were substantially delayed by the u.s. Attorney's Office and Main Justice. Mr. Melson provided documents months ago supporting his concerns to the official in the ODAG responsible for document production to the Committees, but those documents have not been provided to us.

It is one thing to argue that the ends justify the means in an attempt to defend a policy that puts building a big case ahead of stopping known criminals from getting guns. Yet it is a much more serious matter to conceal from Congress the possible involvement of other agencies in identifying and maybe even working with the same criminals that Operation Fast and Furious was trying to identify. If this information is accurate, then the whole misguided operation might have been cut short if not for catastrophic failures to share key information. If agencies within the same Department, co-located at the same facilities, had simply communicated with one another, then ATF might have known that gun trafficking "higher-ups" had been already identified. This raises new and serious questions about the role of DEA, FBI, the United States Attorney's Office in Arizona, and Main Justice in coordinating this effort. Nearly a decade after the September 11th attacks, the stovepipes of information within our government may still be causing tragic mistakes long after they should have been broken down.

kgbsquirrel · « **Reply #17 on:** July 06, 2011, 06:24:57 PM »

Oh this just keeps getting better and better.

zxcvbob · « **Reply #18 on:** July 06, 2011, 06:59:15 PM »

What would it take to get the Justice Department declared a criminal organization under RICO? (there's precedent for it, on a smaller scale; the Key West PD)

AZRedhawk44 · « **Reply #19 on:** July 06, 2011, 07:25:53 PM »

Quote from: zxcvbob on July 06, 2011, 06:59:15 PM

What would it take to get the Justice Department declared a ~~criminal~~ terrorist organization under RICO? (there's precedent for it, on a smaller scale; the Key West PD)

Fixed for more truthiness.

brimic · « **Reply #20 on:** July 06, 2011, 11:23:23 PM »

Quote

Try this one on for size: Straw buyers were FBI and DEA informants
http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com Quoting from a letter by Grassley and Issa to Holder

Oh my

geronimotwo · « **Reply #21 on:** July 07, 2011, 09:29:58 AM »

this *&%$ really irks me. just to clarify, our .gov intentionally breaking our own laws really irks me. the part where mexico wants justice i'm okay with.

French G. · « **Reply #22 on:** July 07, 2011, 10:08:05 AM »

Straw buyers not .gov informants, but "higher-ups" AKA the target of gunrunner who were already known to other agencies and therefore didn't need to be found.

But hey, let's put some guns on the street and then blame gunshops the next time there is a small scale war with fully automatic weapons somewhere in north Mexico.

Viking · « **Reply #23 on:** July 07, 2011, 11:13:34 AM »

Isn't Mexico known for not extraditing anyone under any circumstances?

41magsnub · « **Reply #24 on:** July 07, 2011, 11:18:33 AM »

Quote from: Viking on July 07, 2011, 11:13:34 AM

Isn't Mexico known for not extraditing anyone under any circumstances?

I don't think that is correct, they do a fair amount of extradition but IIRC they won't if the death penalty could be involved.

News:

Author Topic: Mexico wants ATF agents extradited (Read 13099 times)