Boy Accused of Sexual Harassment After Fight

[HankB]

Sorry to hear that HankB - I did my first 6 years in Catholic school with no issues.

I did grades 1-8 and looking back with a perspective of several decades I can say that the 4th grade nun was the only one that I genuinely believe was mentally ill. Now, as you'd expect, the other nuns & lay teachers varied in ability & temperment - some were really good - so one lunatic in 8 years isn't too bad.

I have some other stories about my interaction with her too (some of which you'd find unusual for a 4th grader) but suffice it to say that a year or two later - before she took her final vows - the mother superior had a heart-to-heart talk with her and she ended up leaving the order. Too bad it didn't happen a couple of years earlier . . . 

[wmenorr67]

I have some other stories about my interaction with her too (some of which you'd find unusual for a 4th grader) but suffice it to say that a year or two later - before she took her final vows - the mother superior had a heart-to-heart talk with her and she ended up leaving the order. Too bad it didn't happen a couple of years earlier . . . 

You can't leave us hang like that.

[Jamie B]

Well..........we're waiting!

[AZRedhawk44]

Once I learned this, I learned how to really fight back against the bullies. As in don't just defend yourself, go on the offensive. Or not resist, take the punishment they handed out anyway just for daring to be a victim, and get revenge later.

If you are going to be suspended and possibly arrested anyway, no reason not to do as much damage as possible.

I got in 1 fight in Junior High.

I didn't throw the first punch, I had been in Karate for 2 years at that point, and all I did was block until the fight was broken up by a teacher.  I even led the fight to the classroom door of my bio teacher.  I was in that much control of the "fight."

The fat *expletive deleted*ck of a vice principle, Mr. McCullum (may he rot in Statist Hell), gave me and the kid that outweighed me by 20 pounds, the same punishment.  I knew that the principal of the school was a TKD black belt and I asked for McCullum to have the principal decide the matter, but he shot me down.

I told McCullum that if I get the same punishment as the instigator, despite only using defensive techniques and having WITNESSES show that it was nothing but defensive techniques, the next time the offender is going to need an ambulance or a hearse.  That knocked him back in his chair, the fat *expletive deleted*ck.    May he rot in Statist Hell.  He is one of the core actuary reasons I carry a gun as close to 24/7 as I can.  This is 1 of 3 formative defensive experiences of my life... the other 2 being when my father beat my 6 year old brother in front of me and I stood over him with a bared kitchen knife ready to kill my own father, and the other being screamed at by a mountain lion from 30 feet just outside the campfire's glow, unarmed.

When I have kids, they're going to learn to put bullies DOWN, hard.  I already know that by that point, the State is going to be preserving "safety" rather than liberty and both parties, regardless of outcome, are going to be facing dangerous litigation.  Even if my kids just curl up in a fetal ball in the hallway, they'll still get *expletive deleted*ed by the State.  Might as well give the bully a permanent limp the rest of his life or a few missing teeth (kids typically don't have power to actually kill in a fight until late in high school and the best they can manage is maiming).

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

i didn't weigh 100 pounds till i was almost 17 .  went to school in pg county md  highschool class of 1977. i learned in grade school about equalizers and that if i escalated first and with intensity the word got out to leave me alone.  its worked real good. i carried a kniife and never needed to use it. folks often over look biting as a technique but once you bite a plug outa someone you get a special kinda respect/fear.

[Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas]

School was pretty boring for me, aside from once chasing somebody down and stabbing him in the back with a no. 2 pencil.
I still think that's the only proper use for a no. 2 pencil. They can't do anything else well, aside from multiple-choice exams.

[HankB]

You can't leave us hang like that.

Well..........we're waiting!

OK, here are a few . . . remember, this WAS only 4th grade, so don't expect anything TOO extreme . . .

First off, this nun hated boys - anything, and I mean ANYTHING that happened, she'd punish the boys. This of course was a WONDERFUL opportunity for 4th grade girls, who did know how to make things like paper airplanes, after all. So one time she kept all the guys after school and led the girls out . . . sitting there steaming, I decided this was <expletive> so I got up and walked out. Fully expecting to be chewed out the next morning, I went in with some apprehension, and . . . nothing. Next time it happened, a few more of the guys walked out with me. She quit keeping the guys after class.

One time when report cards were being handed out, it was the Monsignor of the church who came in to hand them out and critique our performance; he'd review our report cards and offer stern advice. When he asked me why I didn't try harder, I told him if I don't try at all I get a bad grade, and if I try really, really hard, Sister tells me I cheated and get a worse grade . . . so I just try medium. The nun was right there and told him that wasn't so and I was just lazy . . . so I looked at her, looked at him, and said "Monsignor, that's what they call bearing false witness - just ask anyone in the class" Surprised that I called the nun a liar, he saw a bunch of other students nodding, so he just handed me my report card and said "Next!"

At one point I had a broken wrist, cast from just below my elbow down to my finger tips - I could only write by wedging a pencil into my cast. During a parent/teacher meeting, this nun just kept telling my mother "He has to improve his handwriting." (That much was true, my handwriting was - and is - nothing to brag about. But while I'm wearing a cast?!?!) Mother was upset and had a little heart-to-heart with the principal, who was also  a nun. (A good one, by the way.)

And once, angry at the whole class, she proclaimed "Anyone that doesn't like this class is free to go across the hall to the other 4th grade class!" When I stood up and started to leave, she told me I couldn't - so I pointed my little 4th-grade finger at her and said "Then YOU LIED, Sister! That's a SIN before God!" (one of her favorite lines) and her response was something along the lines of "Shut up and sit down."  (I got that a lot.)

One day, my Dad gave me an "Enicar" stopwatch, which I proudly wore to school one day. The nun saw it and asked "Does your father know you have that?" I told her Dad GAVE it to me. She asked to see it . . . I showed her my wrist . . . she told me to hand it over . . . I told her she could see it fine on my wrist . . . she DEMANDED I hand it over . . . I informed her that she may get away with stealing combs, pencils, and erasers from other kids, but she was NOT going to steal this watch. She scolded me and walked away. (I was fully prepared to punch her in the nose with my little 4th grade fist if she made a grab for the watch . . . and I suspect she knew it, and could look further ahead to unpleasant consequences for her if she provoked it by trying to take the watch.)

There are more incidents in a similar vein (like the time I took the 5th, after Dad explained what I'd heard on an episode of Perry Mason the night before) but I wasn't the only kid having problems with her, and several years later I found out - from one of the good nuns - that she wasn't well regarded by the other nuns, either. Which is why she was ultimately invited to leave.

[RoadKingLarry]

My son had been the victim of bullies in middle school and the school would do nothing about it until my son made comments about defending himself.  They responded by suspending and then expelling him from the school.  Appeals all the way to the district super did nothing.  He is now in private school and enjoying it.

Was that a Tulsa School? Not too surprised with Tulsa not so slowly trying to become "Berkley on the Arkansas".
The small town school where I live isn't much better. A fight results in both parties being suspended even if all one party does is curl up in the fetal position and get kicked bloody. That happened to one kid my son's Sr. year. The School board actually called in the police and essentially closed the next meeting. I am so very very glad my kids are out of school.
I lived for the day I could go to the school and raise holy hell but my wife always managed to beat me to it.

[wmenorr67]

Yes at a Tulsa Public School.  Even the "best" middle school, feeds into Booker T. Washington.

Daughter is out of school as of this past spring and baring any unforeseen issues my son will graduate from a private school in 3 and half years.

[freakazoid]

Back in high school they suspended both kids who got in a fight, after school hours and not on school property. And in middle school they suspended someone for defending himself, the other kid even admitted that he had acted in self defense.

[Jamie B]

HankB, you are my hero.

I respect those who poke their finger in the hypocrisy of the Catholic church - especially @ 11 years old.

Way to go!

[MechAg94]

HankB, you are my hero.

I respect those who poke their finger in the hypocrisy of the Catholic church - especially @ 11 years old.

Way to go!

IMO, that sort of attitude on the part of the leadership tolerating that behavior is what can eventually lead to other things the Catholic Church has gotten in trouble for. 

I wonder if some public schools are heading the same direction.  Protect the Bureaucracy at all costs!

[Pharmacology]

How strange.
I've always been a head or two taller than my school peers, but I never so much as considered being a bully.

In fact, I remember giving Aaron Schmidt the what-for  for picking on a little girl in class...  I did get in trouble for drawing blood.

[RoadKingLarry]

HankB, you are my hero.

I respect those who poke their finger in the hypocrisy of the Catholic church - especially @ 11 years old.

Way to go!

I only spent part of one year* at a Catholic school. The way my mom was at the time it wouldn't have mattered what the nuns or priest might have done, they were above reproach, end of discussion.


* that was an interesting year, 4 different schools that year. I had the pleasure of being "the new kid" in school 9 times by the time I started 8th grade.

[brimic]

Not everybody is capable of defending themselves in a physical manner, especially if they are a lone victim of a group.

I have a few thoughts on this....
1: Almost anyone is capable of defending themselves as long as they aren't terribly physically handicapped.
2: Humans are pack animals who look for the weakness in the herd, kids haven't had the political correctness and societal pressures applied yet to restrain this behavior.
3: If its a group bullying problem, its usually because the victim previously failed in the victim sorting/pecking order process. As I explained to my son, if you let one person pick on you, soon it will 3 or 4 or 5 doing it at the same time and there will be no way to stop it.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
In grade school, the bullying wasn't too bad. The nails that stuck up generally got pounded down, those who picked on others generally got it back aas the kids were all close to the same size because the diffferent grades were more or les kept seperated on the playground and in gym class.
In high school, this dynamic changed where all the kids from the adolescent freshmen and the fully in their prime seniors were thrown in the same mix. I played football, where in the early practices, a lot of the freshmen got hazed and beaten pretty badly in the locker room or before after/ practice by upperclassmen. A senior, JOe Gxxx, made it clear that he would give every freshman a Sh-t swirly and that there was nothing we could do about it. He got 3 of my friends, who were all top notch athletes for their age, on 2 consecutive days. The following day, Joe Gxxx told me he was going to get me, and after I got out of the shower he grabbed me by the back of the neck and forced me into a bathroom stall. I was a skinny 115lbs he was well over 200. As he was trying to force my head down to the toilet, I somehow managed to twist my body to the left, coming around with my right fist, and connected squarely with his throat. It was desperation and a bit of luck, but he backed away clutching his neck trying to gasp for air. I grabbed my stuff and ran, figuring he would tear my arms off as soon as he was able to breathe again. A funny thing happened- he wouldn't look me in the eye after that, and he left me completely alone.   

[Jamie B]

IMO, that sort of attitude on the part of the leadership tolerating that behavior is what can eventually lead to other things the Catholic Church has gotten in trouble for. 

I wonder if some public schools are heading the same direction.  Protect the Bureaucracy at all costs!

I apologize for stirring the pot, here, but that is exactly my view of the Catholic Church.
I have been Catholic all of my life, and just spent 7 months working on a local committee sanctioned by our Bishop to revitalize our Catholic schools.
After all of the innovative recommendations by our lay members, the priests discounted all of the work, and decided to continue the same path of benign neglect and do nothing. They believe that they know best, and do not need the 'laity scum' (my term)  telling them what to do.
Thankfully, my pastor has a lot of common sense, and it was him against the 5 other (older) priests, and we got shot down.
Hundreds of hours of work wasted due to the continued arrogance of the Catholic Church - what a waste!   

Sorry - just needed to vent....

[wmenorr67]

I apologize for stirring the pot, here, but that is exactly my view of the Catholic Church.
I have been Catholic all of my life, and just spent 7 months working on a local committee sanctioned by our Bishop to revitalize our Catholic schools.
After all of the innovative recommendations by our lay members, the priests discounted all of the work, and decided to continue the same path of benign neglect and do nothing. They believe that they know best, and do not need the 'laity scum' (my term)  telling them what to do.
Thankfully, my pastor has a lot of common sense, and it was him against the 5 other (older) priests, and we got shot down.
Hundreds of hours of work wasted due to the continued arrogance of the Catholic Church - what a waste!   

Sorry - just needed to vent....

Just one of the few reasons I have stirred away from organized religion.

[zxcvbob]

Just one of the few reasons I have stirred away from organized religion.

So, you're a Baptist then? :) (or Congregationalist, or..., but that's not as funny)

Some denominations are decentralized.  They have cooperative programs, but the individual churches are autonomous.  It keeps heretics from infiltrating the top leadership and forcing bad decisions down to the churches.

[makattak]

Just one of the few reasons I have stirred away from organized religion.

Yeah, I stay out of hospitals too. Nothing but bureaucracy and wanting more of my money. And those doctors, thinking they know what's best for me?

[wmenorr67]

So, you're a Baptist then? :) (or Congregationalist, or..., but that's not as funny)

Some denominations are decentralized.  They have cooperative programs, but the individual churches are autonomous.  It keeps heretics from infiltrating the top leadership and forcing bad decisions down to the churches.

Grew up going to Church of Christ and a huge Methodist church.  I believe in the basic tenets of all religions.  Do your best and treat others with respect.

Yeah, I stay out of hospitals too. Nothing but bureaucracy and wanting more of my money. And those doctors, thinking they know what's best for me?

Don't follow the comparison.

[kgbsquirrel]

Don't follow the comparison.

Check your sarcasm meter, mine pegged on that comment.

[makattak]

Don't follow the comparison.

Any organization made up of men will have problems. Often leaders will be unmoved by subordinates. Often members will be petty and hurtful. Gossip will often abound. I'm pretty sure people here can point to family with worse such qualities than the average church.

My point was using the failings of the people in the organization as an excuse not to go to any such organization is a non-sequitor. (There actually are hospitals I would avoid, if I were sick. Just as there are churches I avoid. That doesn't mean I think all hospitals are inept or corrupt any more than I think all churchs are inept or corrupt.)

[MechAg94]

I grew up going to a non-denominational Church that was always very conservative.  The pastor spoke a number of times about separating the Faith from the Organized Church/Religion.  The bureaucracy of the religious organization has the same potential for temptation and evil as any other bureaucratic organization.  I guess that is why you have to find the Church and pastor that suits you best whom you can learn from.

[T.O.M.]

>I swear to deity if the school sends them home for it, I'm taking them out for ice cream.<

Kid in the local school had a brain tumor. Class bully thought it would be funny to hit him in the head. A friend's son saw it happen, and responded...

To put it in perspective: the friend's son spars with adult MMA fighters. At 13.

Bully was put down HARD. Principal called my friend to come pick up his son, and explained what happened...

Friend: "I'm not gonna punish him!"

Principal: "Not asking you to. Just take him home so he can calm down"

And you people say that the education system is all bad!   

[Jamie B]

And you people say that the education system is all bad!   

Catholic education is the worst of both worlds.