Tactical unintended discharge's.

[Battle Monkey of Zardoz]

Tactical unintended discharge's. Or, dumbass po po does not need to carry ANY firearm. This article reads like a bad "let's be cops" comedy. Jeez. I wonder how many non badged citizens were "accidentally" shot.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/16/us/los-angeles-sheriffs-department-guns-report/index.html

[Angel Eyes]

Headline reads: "Guns used by LA deputies put officers, public at risk, report says"

Headline should read: "Poorly trained, undisciplined deputies put officers, public at risk"

[Perd Hapley]

The Smith & Wesson M&P 9mm was introduced to the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department in 2013. The following year, accidental discharges in the field shot up by more than 500%.

hardee-har

[T.O.M.]

I posted about an editorial from the LA Times about Glock-style firearms...

http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=50333.0

Bottom line is that while those familiar with firearms know what causes unintentional discharging,  the press and uninformed are blaming pistols that are just too easy to shoot.

[MechAg94]

Does everyone hate DA/SA pistols these days?  I never hear about them with stuff like this.  I am sure untrained people have accidents with them also.

--And a light mounted to the gun and activated by deputies squeezing a pressure switch on the handle has led to confusion in some incidents, with "a significant number of deputies reporting that they unintentionally pulled the trigger of their weapon when they intended only to turn on the light."

Did they have their finger on the trigger when they activated the light? 

[MechAg94]

I guess I should add that if they used to have Beretta pistols, why switch to a striker fired design?  I will go out on a limb and assume they got a really good deal on the pistols.

[brimic]

Report should read "Poor training leads to unintentional shootings."
I'm betting that LA has million$ that they waste on crap liberal programs that would save lives if applied to officer training.

[Hawkmoon]

Not an excuse, because they shouldn't have a finger on the trigger when activating the light, but this does point out the validity of the argument that the rail on a pistol is not the appropriate place to be placing a flashlight, because it violates a fundamental rule of gun safety: "Never point the muzzle of a firearm at anything you are not willing to destroy."

Of course, weapon light proponents counter that the lights are strong enough that the bounce provides adequate illumination so the muzzle doesn't have to point directly at a suspect (or innocent bystander). The problem is that police aren't taught to perform clearing exercises by sweeping the room with the muzzle pointed at the floor ...

[dogmush]

The problem is that police aren't taught to perform clearing exercises by sweeping the room with the muzzle pointed at the floor ...

Why not?  That's the correct way to do it.

[T.O.M.]

Not an excuse, because they shouldn't have a finger on the trigger when activating the light, but this does point out the validity of the argument that the rail on a pistol is not the appropriate place to be placing a flashlight, because it violates a fundamental rule of gun safety: "Never point the muzzle of a firearm at anything you are not willing to destroy."

Of course, weapon light proponents counter that the lights are strong enough that the bounce provides adequate illumination so the muzzle doesn't have to point directly at a suspect (or innocent bystander). The problem is that police aren't taught to perform clearing exercises by sweeping the room with the muzzle pointed at the floor ...

I always assumed the mounted light is for target identification,  not at all for use as a flashlight.

[Perd Hapley]

Report should read "Poor training leads to unintentional shootings."
I'm betting that LA has million$ that they waste on crap liberal programs that would save lives if applied to officer training.

Is there another kind of "liberal" program?

[MechAg94]

I always assumed the mounted light is for target identification,  not at all for use as a flashlight.

Exactly.  It is to insure you have a clear view of whatever you think you need to shoot.  It lets you do that without having to hold a flashlight separately. 

[Ben]

Not an excuse, because they shouldn't have a finger on the trigger when activating the light, but this does point out the validity of the argument that the rail on a pistol is not the appropriate place to be placing a flashlight, because it violates a fundamental rule of gun safety: "Never point the muzzle of a firearm at anything you are not willing to destroy."

Of course, weapon light proponents counter that the lights are strong enough that the bounce provides adequate illumination so the muzzle doesn't have to point directly at a suspect (or innocent bystander). The problem is that police aren't taught to perform clearing exercises by sweeping the room with the muzzle pointed at the floor ...

There are a variety of switches. My Streamlight has a rocker that lets me use either the index finger of my strong hand to activate it (so finger is off the trigger) or the thumb of my support hand if toggling from the other side (though I still keep my trigger finger outside the trigger guard). I'm not sure I would want a light with a grip pressure switch (as mentioned in the article). Never shot one though.

[BlueStarLizzard]

I always assumed the mounted light is for target identification,  not at all for use as a flashlight.

exactly.

and most of them produce a strong enough light that you really should not be pointing it at anyone you do not intend to be destroying anyway.

[Hawkmoon]

I always assumed the mounted light is for target identification,  not at all for use as a flashlight.

It is.

Suppose you're clearing your own house because you heard something go bump in the night. Do you want to identify your daughter by pointing a loaded gun at her?

[MechAg94]

There are a variety of switches. My Streamlight has a rocker that lets me use either the index finger of my strong hand to activate it (so finger is off the trigger) or the thumb of my support hand if toggling from the other side (though I still keep my trigger finger outside the trigger guard). I'm not sure I would want a light with a grip pressure switch (as mentioned in the article). Never shot one though.

They are not too bad.  With practice, you can adjust the tightness of your grip or the middle finger only to turn it on and off.  I have a CR Light Guard on my bedside gun.  I don't want to have to find more than one thing if I am woken up in the middle of the night. 

[230RN]

I've got both styles and prefer the grip-mounted button.  The guard-mounted switch is ambidextrous, but I don't find it as instantly accessible.

Say, didn't another big city (Boston?) report a similar upsurge in officer-related NDs a couple of years ago when they went to Glocks?

I understand that in one phase of the field-stripping operation, it is necessary to pull the trigger.  Am I wrong about that?

[Firethorn]

Say, didn't another big city (Boston?) report a similar upsurge in officer-related NDs a couple of years ago when they went to Glocks?

I understand that in one phase of the field-stripping operation, it is necessary to pull the trigger.  Am I wrong about that?

I think there's enough evidence that any change in equipment, without a goodly amount of retraining, is going to result in a higher incident rate.

[T.O.M.]

It is.

Suppose you're clearing your own house because you heard something go bump in the night. Do you want to identify your daughter by pointing a loaded gun at her?

You made me think about this.  Last night, after the lights were out in the house, I got out my MagLight led light (can't recall the model...3 AAA batteries, has bright, dim, and strobe options).  Anyways, I turned it on, and aimed it at the floor, and the ceiling.  It lit up the room enough that I would have no trouble identifying anyone in the room.  So, might be a good plan to turn on the light from the old "low ready" position,  which would allow friend or foe identification without pointing a loaded weapon at a loved one.

[Ben]

I've got both styles and prefer the grip-mounted button.  The guard-mounted switch is ambidextrous, but I don't find it as instantly accessible.

Hand size, gun size, and mount position probably all play into that too. I have long fingers, so I don't have to reposition at all on the strong hand side, and only very, very slightly for the off-side thumb, even for a full size pistol. If my hands were a little bit smaller or shorter, that would not be the case.

[BlueStarLizzard]

You made me think about this.  Last night, after the lights were out in the house, I got out my MagLight led light (can't recall the model...3 AAA batteries, has bright, dim, and strobe options).  Anyways, I turned it on, and aimed it at the floor, and the ceiling.  It lit up the room enough that I would have no trouble identifying anyone in the room.  So, might be a good plan to turn on the light from the old "low ready" position,  which would allow friend or foe identification without pointing a loaded weapon at a loved one.

plus, you won't destroy your loved ones corneas.

[MechAg94]

Yeah, digital clock radios can light up a room if your eyes have adjusted.  You don't need 500 lumens.

[roo_ster]

Yeah, digital clock radios can light up a room if your eyes have adjusted.  You don't need 500 lumens.

Got poked at by a guy for still having a piddly 100 lumen tac light on my HD shotgun.  I do not live in a football stadium.  100 lumens are more than enough.

[Hawkmoon]

You made me think about this.  Last night, after the lights were out in the house, I got out my MagLight led light (can't recall the model...3 AAA batteries, has bright, dim, and strobe options).  Anyways, I turned it on, and aimed it at the floor, and the ceiling.  It lit up the room enough that I would have no trouble identifying anyone in the room.  So, might be a good plan to turn on the light from the old "low ready" position,  which would allow friend or foe identification without pointing a loaded weapon at a loved one.

And that's exactly the problem. The muzzle and the light are co-registered -- where the light points, the muzzle points. You can avoid sweeping potentially innocent people by using the light with the gun at the low ready, but (at least around here) that's not the way SWAT teams clear buildings.

I took a citizens police academy course earlier this year. In one class they had the SWAT team to a demonstration room clearing exercise. Guns were not at low ready, they were up and ready to engage anything the muzzle swept. The rule of thumb is "You fight as you train." If you train to clear a room with the gun at high ready, it would be difficult to suddenly transition to clearing with the gun always at the low ready for the one time you're clearing a dark room with a weapon-mounted light.

[HeroHog]

Yeah, digital clock radios can light up a room if your eyes have adjusted.  You don't need 500 lumens.

I sleep in my recliner in our livingroom. On the entertainment center in front of me is the TV, Surround sound system, a Notebook PC, Cable/DVR unit, NAS Unit, Cable Modem, Router, IP Phone. Yeah, I don't need no danged nightlight!