Armed Polite Society

Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Waitone on August 21, 2014, 07:43:30 PM

Title: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: Waitone on August 21, 2014, 07:43:30 PM
What with all the flapping around about militarization of local law enforcement (hardly a new topic on this forum) I was interested in a database release by the federales giving some idea of who is buying what conveniently indexed by state and county.

Article front page  http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/database-shows-what-military-equipment-your-local-police-department-has-been-stockpiling_08192014

Search the database  http://www.shtfplan.com/militarization-by-county-via-the-law-enforcement-support-office?appSession=484118466975748&cbSearchAgain=true&AppKey=36701000b255adcfe6ca4b13a8a4

Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: Tallpine on August 21, 2014, 07:48:39 PM
Some pistols and rifles from 2006.
Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: roo_ster on August 21, 2014, 08:00:08 PM
My county has gotten two MRAPS, one helo, an armored truck, 31 sets of NVGs, IR LTDs, and 9 pages of other stuff.

Because what LEO doesn't need to drop PGMs on target?

===============

The county we are considering moving to has gotten 10 rifles since 2006.
Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: dm1333 on August 21, 2014, 08:07:40 PM
Rifles, safety glasses and what sounds like an APC.  If you saw the roads around here a tracked vehicle makes sense!
Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: onions! on August 21, 2014, 08:15:05 PM
My county bought a couple dozen rifles,almost a hundred sights,a truck,and long johns.

My folks county bought gardening equipment,tractors,musical instruments,and more gun sights.And long johns.It IS Michigan after all.

I'm surprised by the quantities for some things.ex.Cold weather boots,only a dozen pairs,do the cops share boots at shift change?  =)
I'd have thought that they'd have bought dozens-or at least enough to cover the department.

I'm too lazy to look myself but I was wondering how much stuff the fire departments also acquired.It makes at least as much sense to me for the FD to get access to surplus.

Thanks for the link.
Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: Marnoot on August 21, 2014, 08:27:12 PM
County I'm in got a rock climbing wall, NVGs, medical stuff, some bayonets, "ladder, tactical assault", cuppa two tree grenade launches, 886 rifles and various other and assorted miscellany. County I'm planning on moving two in the next 6 months got 95 rifles and a "truck, utility".
Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: Jamisjockey on August 21, 2014, 09:10:34 PM
County I'm in got a rock climbing wall, NVGs, medical stuff, some bayonets, "ladder, tactical assault", cuppa two tree grenade launches, 886 rifles and various other and assorted miscellany. County I'm planning on moving two in the next 6 months got 95 rifles and a "truck, utility".

WTF do they need bayonets for?   ???

Mine got a bunch of rifles and sights. 
Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: onions! on August 21, 2014, 09:19:06 PM
WTF do they need bayonets for?   ???


Mine did too.Makes me wonder,espescially with the quantities listed,just how much of the oddball stuff didn't get re-sold,or at least diverted,to specific persons/collecters in the departments.
Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: Marnoot on August 21, 2014, 09:19:57 PM
WTF do they need bayonets for?   ???

Those dangerous Salt Lake hippies, don't you know.
Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: Ben on August 21, 2014, 09:54:27 PM
Eighteen pages of stuff, including it looks like assault packs for every badge in the county, and around 100 flightsuits, which they need with the half dozen helos. Several "combat vehicles", a page worth of .45ACP pistols (doesn't say what kind), several pages of 5.56 rifles (doesn't say what kind), and a periscope.

Oops, read it wrong. One of the helos is apparently a fixed wing and valued at 6.5million. Or maybe not. It's listed as "aircraft, rotary", which I always read as "helicopter", but the helos are listed under "Helicopter".

AIRCRAFT, ROTARY WING   1   Each   $6,500,000.00   7/6/2009
Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: lupinus on August 21, 2014, 10:10:46 PM
Hmm

Anti-Personal Mine Foot Protection, real handy round here
Few Generators
Some batteries and chargers
Radios
Ten 5.56 rifles, guessing AR/M16
Four 7.62 rifles, doesn't say what exactly
Tents and doodads and tires
Tractor
7 utility trucks, doesn't say what exactly
And a...gray wheeled housekeeping cart. Wonder if it's a tacticool gray wheeled housekeeping cart
Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: Boomhauer on August 21, 2014, 10:19:45 PM
Quote
And a...gray wheeled housekeeping cart. Wonder if it's a tacticool gray wheeled housekeeping cart

That's the Chariot of Oppression!

Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: onions! on August 21, 2014, 10:23:35 PM
That's the Chariot of Oppression!



Or an assault wheelbarrow in disguise!
Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: 41magsnub on August 21, 2014, 10:24:31 PM
Missoula county is not too bad, 1 page of rifles and a few radios.  No tanks or B-52's.

Cascade county where I grew up has a little more:
.45 pistols (assuming 1911's)
5 38 caliber revolvers
4 sets of thermal viewers
M16's I assume
And a bunch of M14's I'm assuming by the 7.62 rifles

However, there were a whole lot of rifles - like almost 3 pages worth between 5.56 and 7.62.
Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: brimic on August 21, 2014, 10:28:45 PM
Nothing but rifles for my county.
Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: RoadKingLarry on August 21, 2014, 10:34:05 PM
My county got a dozen of -RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER.
That wouldn't even arm every mounted deputy.
Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: Tallpine on August 21, 2014, 10:37:10 PM
I'm too lazy to look myself but I was wondering how much stuff the fire departments also acquired.It makes at least as much sense to me for the FD to get access to surplus.

We've gotten a couple 6x6 trucks from NG/army, just for the shipping costs. :)

Also there was a FEMA grant for some turnout gear a few years ago.  It was pretty much a waste IMO for a bunch of old guys/gals on a mostly wildland VFD.  Technically the coats and pants have hung on the wall so long that they already "should be" replaced.  I think that we've actually used the stuff on a couple of mutual aid structure fires.
Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: Regolith on August 21, 2014, 10:40:00 PM
Three "DOOR,VEHICULAR", and one "TRUCK,UTILITY" (which I'm guessing is what the doors were for).

Anyway, I think I saw the truck once at the scene of a vehicle accident. Looked like something that would make Gecko45 drool, but didn't really seem all that useful overall.  ;/
Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: Boomhauer on August 21, 2014, 10:51:53 PM
Quote
I'm too lazy to look myself but I was wondering how much stuff the fire departments also acquired.It makes at least as much sense to me for the FD to get access to surplus.

A lot of the 1033 program stuff just isn't that useful for us firefighters, outside of some oddball stuff like thermal imaging cameras. Even if it's "free" we still have to store it and all that, and we had more than enough free crap to store.

Now my dept could definitely have used NVGs but that would have been for SAR. Plus I believe a lot of NVGs available through this program are junk, so it'd be something like acquiring a bunch of them and trying to find a useful one or three and if it's possible, have some others rebuilt (I guess TNVC could do something like that)

Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: Jim147 on August 21, 2014, 11:05:33 PM
My county got a bunch of computers and monitors a few pistols, a page of rifles, a MRAP, an armored truck and some kind of $50,000 utility truck.

The database is not complete. I checked the county across the highway and they don't list the Humvee I know they received and I still have the newspaper article about it around here somewhere.

jim
Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: Boomhauer on August 21, 2014, 11:08:04 PM
Quote
they don't list the Humvee I know they received and I still have the newspaper article about it around here somewhere.

They may have sent it back after realizing what a POS it is.

Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: Perd Hapley on August 22, 2014, 12:14:25 AM
StL County got 3 pages worth. Didn't read it all yet, but I noticed a few items described as "CPU No Hard Drive." I didn't know they were building the HDD right onto the die, now.  ;/
Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: Cliffh on August 22, 2014, 12:16:59 AM
Not bad here.  A helicopter, flight trainer; a helicopter and a few 5.56 & 7.62 rifles, barely enough to arm the local PD (in a town of 1,300).
Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: Jim147 on August 22, 2014, 01:55:51 AM
They may have sent it back after realizing what a POS it is.



I'll look tomorrow when I have a job to do a block away from the Sheriff's office. They used to have it parked right out front all the time.

The reason I remember the newspaper article is the headline. Sheriff gets a Hummer.   :rofl:

jim
Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: Firethorn on August 22, 2014, 02:31:12 AM
Looking at AK - boots, lots and lots of cold weather boots.  More cold weather jackets and other stuff.  A few cold weather type vehicles.

11 radar scattering screening systems, but those also work well as sun shades/shelters.

A popcorn machine.  Not sure how tactical it is.  A bit of exercise equipment and an EOD robot.

15 5.56 rifles for my county alone, lots for the state.  though without the NSN I can't tell if it's M-16, M-4, or what.  Probably M16s. 

Nothing for me to get excited about.  I'm not going to deny our officers a 'patrol rifle', especially if they can get a used but still good rifle from uncle sam for free.
Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: Battle Monkey of Zardoz on August 22, 2014, 04:28:46 AM
Militarized in equipment or attitude?  Both concern me.
Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: T.O.M. on August 22, 2014, 07:26:57 AM
Interesting how things got named on this list.  My county is listed as getting an APC.  It's a HUMVEE.  I've seen it.  Local vocational school painted it for them in the same design as their cruisers. 

My favorites?  14 rugs and two picture frames.
Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: RevDisk on August 22, 2014, 08:22:18 AM

Some safes, a bunch of tools, some first aid kits, some sleeping mats, couple radios, a lot of magazines, dozen rifles, cold weather gear, 31 "sustainment pouch" (WTF?)

No APCs. Though I have seen the armored car that Lancaster police have. Their SWAT team did have a booth at some community event. Nice of them to show off their MTOE. The two officers at the booth did have a very worrisome attitude that disturbed me far more than if my county was given a dozen main battle tanks.

Qualified immunity in the wrong hands is far more dangerous than heavy mechanized battalion's worth of equipment.
Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: Nick1911 on August 22, 2014, 11:16:43 AM
My part of KC; a bunch of 5.56 rifles, and an MRAP.  =|

In the interest of maintaining a balance of power, I think this means I need to file a Form 1 for a few HEAT rockets.  >:D
Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: Jocassee on August 22, 2014, 11:27:12 AM
Greenville County SC--

Quote
SC   GREENVILLE   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $499.00   7/13/2006
SC   GREENVILLE   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $499.00   7/13/2006
SC   GREENVILLE   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $499.00   7/13/2006
SC   GREENVILLE   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $499.00   7/13/2006
SC   GREENVILLE   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $120.00   10/29/2010
SC   GREENVILLE   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $120.00   10/29/2010
SC   GREENVILLE   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $120.00   10/29/2010
SC   GREENVILLE   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $120.00   10/29/2010
SC   GREENVILLE   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $120.00   10/29/2010
SC   GREENVILLE   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $120.00   10/29/2010
SC   GREENVILLE   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $120.00   10/29/2010
SC   GREENVILLE   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $120.00   10/29/2010
SC   GREENVILLE   RIFLE,7.62 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $138.00   11/18/2008
SC   GREENVILLE   RIFLE,7.62 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $138.00   11/18/2008
SC   GREENVILLE   RIFLE,7.62 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $138.00

The only thing I can imagine is causing the price discrepancy is auto vs full auto but that seems like a huge gap. And I would love to know what they're purchasing in 7.62 that they only paid $138.
Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: Balog on August 22, 2014, 11:28:10 AM
My part of KC; a bunch of 5.56 rifles, and an MRAP.  =|

In the interest of maintaining a balance of power, I think this means I need to file a Form 1 for a few HEAT rockets.  >:D

Fighting them on the move is a sucker's game. They gotta live near you to oppress you, get 'em while they're parked.  :lol:

Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: Balog on August 22, 2014, 11:30:20 AM
Here's what we got. Not as bad as I was expecting actually. Interesting that they got so many .38's, I don't know of any dept that still issues those.  ???

WA   SNOHOMISH   BALLISTIC INSERTS   10   EA   $500.00   
WA   SNOHOMISH   DISK,TURBINE,AIRCRAFT GAS TURBINE ENGINE   3   Each   $3,979.36   10/28/2009
WA   SNOHOMISH   HELICOPTER,OBSERVATION   1   Unknown   $0.00   2/26/2008
WA   SNOHOMISH   HELMET,ADVANCED COMBAT   2   Each   $280.80   12/21/2009
WA   SNOHOMISH   HELMET,ADVANCED COMBAT   5   Each   $280.80   12/21/2009
WA   SNOHOMISH   HELMET,ADVANCED COMBAT   4   Each   $280.80   12/21/2009
WA   SNOHOMISH   IMAGE INTENSIFIER,NIGHT VISION   1   Each   $6,800.00   4/15/2013
WA   SNOHOMISH   IMAGE INTENSIFIER,NIGHT VISION   1   Each   $6,800.00   4/15/2013
WA   SNOHOMISH   IMAGE INTENSIFIER,NIGHT VISION   1   Each   $6,800.00   4/15/2013
WA   SNOHOMISH   IMAGE INTENSIFIER,NIGHT VISION   1   Each   $6,800.00   4/15/2013
WA   SNOHOMISH   MINE RESISTANT VEHICLE   1   Each   $658,000.00   9/9/2013
WA   SNOHOMISH   POCKET,GP MEDIUM   20   Each   $27.20   5/22/2013
WA   SNOHOMISH   REVOLVER,CALIBER .38 SPECIAL   1   Unknown   $0.00   5/28/2008
WA   SNOHOMISH   REVOLVER,CALIBER .38 SPECIAL   1   Unknown   $0.00   5/28/2008
WA   SNOHOMISH   REVOLVER,CALIBER .38 SPECIAL   1   Unknown   $0.00   5/28/2008
WA   SNOHOMISH   REVOLVER,CALIBER .38 SPECIAL   1   Unknown   $0.00   5/28/2008
WA   SNOHOMISH   REVOLVER,CALIBER .38 SPECIAL   1   Each   $89.57   9/16/2010
WA   SNOHOMISH   REVOLVER,CALIBER .38 SPECIAL   1   Each   $89.57   9/16/2010
WA   SNOHOMISH   REVOLVER,CALIBER .38 SPECIAL   1   Each   $89.57   9/16/2010
WA   SNOHOMISH   REVOLVER,CALIBER .38 SPECIAL   1   Each   $89.57   9/16/2010
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $499.00   12/7/2006
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $499.00   12/7/2006
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $499.00   12/7/2006
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $499.00   12/7/2006
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $499.00   12/7/2006
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $499.00   12/7/2006
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $499.00   12/7/2006
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $499.00   12/7/2006
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $499.00   12/11/2006
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $499.00   12/11/2006
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $499.00   12/11/2006
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $499.00   12/11/2006
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $499.00   12/11/2006
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $499.00   12/11/2006
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $499.00   7/9/2008
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $499.00   7/9/2008
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $499.00   7/9/2008
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $499.00   7/9/2008
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $499.00   7/9/2008
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $499.00   7/9/2008
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $499.00   1/5/2011
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $499.00   1/5/2011
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $499.00   3/14/2011
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $499.00   3/14/2011
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $499.00   3/14/2011
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,7.62 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $138.00   12/7/2006
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,7.62 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $138.00   12/7/2006
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,7.62 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $138.00   12/7/2006
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,7.62 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $138.00   12/7/2006
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,7.62 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $138.00   12/7/2006
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,7.62 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $138.00   7/9/2008
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,7.62 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $138.00   7/9/2008
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,7.62 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $138.00   7/9/2008
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,7.62 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $138.00   7/9/2008
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,7.62 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $138.00   7/9/2008
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,7.62 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $138.00   7/9/2008
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,7.62 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $138.00   11/3/2010
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,7.62 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $138.00   11/3/2010
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,7.62 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $138.00   11/3/2010
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,7.62 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $138.00   11/3/2010
WA   SNOHOMISH   TIRE,PNEUMATIC,VEHICULAR   4   Each   $893.53   11/26/2013
WA   SNOHOMISH   TRUCK,UTILITY   1   Each   $25,000.00   8/19/2011
WA   SNOHOMISH   TRUCK,UTILITY   1   Each   $41,253.00   8/4/2011
Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: Nick1911 on August 22, 2014, 11:37:25 AM
Fighting them on the move is a sucker's game. They gotta live near you to oppress you, get 'em while they're parked.  :lol:

 :lol:  true
Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: Monkeyleg on August 22, 2014, 11:55:23 AM
Mine bought one mine resistant vehicle, about half a dozen 5.56 rifles, a helicopter observation (whatever that is), a ton of computer stuff, an ice maker, and a lot of other non-threatening items.

I've never seen a SWAT team here. That's not to say there isn't one, but I've never seen any officers in SWAT gear, or a vehicle marked as such.

I know that the county to the north of us has a SWAT team. The deputy who instructed the driver safety class I took wouldn't let us forget that he was on the SWAT team.
Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: MechAg94 on August 22, 2014, 12:03:04 PM
My county just go about 15 rifles and a couple dozen reflex sights. 

My parents county got a few rifles, but also some trucks, dump trucks, trailers and tires. 

I don't see much tacticool stuff.
Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: fifth_column on August 22, 2014, 12:06:43 PM
Racine County, WI. 

A boat, boat trailer, rifles, pistols, ballistic eye wear, and, oh yeah . . . 2 grenade launchers!?!?!   :O  And 1, $460,000 "COMPLETE COMBAT/ASSAULT/TACTICAL WHEELED VEHICLES"   :O

Plus, apparently they paid $60 for .45 pistols and 120 for 5.56 rifles.  Man, I want to see those prices in my local gun shop . . .

The records only go up to 2010.  Who knows what's been brought in-house in the last four years.
Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: Scout26 on August 22, 2014, 12:12:30 PM
It would be interesting to find out if the Rifle, 7.62mm are the old M21/M24 sniper rifles or SAW's.
Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: Boomhauer on August 22, 2014, 12:15:39 PM
Quote
a helicopter observation (whatever that is)

Either an old OH-6 or an OH-58. Seen a lot of the first go out. Basically it's the mil version of the MD 520.

Quote
2 grenade launchers!?!?!

To serve as 40mm less lethal launchers, I bet.

Quote
It would be interesting to find out if the Rifle, 7.62mm are the old M21/M24 sniper rifles or SAW's.

M249 SAW is a 5.56 LMG...

Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: KD5NRH on August 22, 2014, 12:21:24 PM
Mine bought one mine resistant vehicle,

Next county over got one of those...I'm wondering if it might be practical as a brush truck for the fire department; the ability to drive over fences, through heavy brush and fresh-burned areas without damage can be really useful when trying to get an advantageous position in a wildfire, or to get the crew away from one.  Definitely not situations where you can just hop out and change a tire, or unwrap the barbed wire from the axle before continuing.

A lot of the serious brush trucks and tankers at the VFDs around here are surplus military gear.  They can be tricky to maintain, but when you've got to make an alternate route in a hurry, they work.
Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: Ben on August 22, 2014, 12:32:37 PM
While looking through the CA counties, I found it interesting the LA county had 146 pages of stuff, with a ton of tactical stuff, while San Diego county only had 18 pages, with not that much tactical stuff. Given San Diego county is on the Mexican border, I would have figured they'd be trying for more vehicles and helos and such, but their orders were much more benign.
Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: Tallpine on August 22, 2014, 12:33:41 PM
Next county over got one of those...I'm wondering if it might be practical as a brush truck for the fire department; the ability to drive over fences, through heavy brush and fresh-burned areas without damage can be really useful when trying to get an advantageous position in a wildfire, or to get the crew away from one.  Definitely not situations where you can just hop out and change a tire, or unwrap the barbed wire from the axle before continuing.

A lot of the serious brush trucks and tankers at the VFDs around here are surplus military gear.  They can be tricky to maintain, but when you've got to make an alternate route in a hurry, they work.
I doubt it ... the MRAPs would be too heavy and awkward for off road fire suppression, and likely don't have a very good payload for water.  Those "skidgines" (logging skidder combined with water tank and nozzle) would be handy though.
Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: Balog on August 22, 2014, 12:36:40 PM
MRAPs are mine resistant not fire resistant.
Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: Boomhauer on August 22, 2014, 12:49:59 PM
Next county over got one of those...I'm wondering if it might be practical as a brush truck for the fire department; the ability to drive over fences, through heavy brush and fresh-burned areas without damage can be really useful when trying to get an advantageous position in a wildfire, or to get the crew away from one.  Definitely not situations where you can just hop out and change a tire, or unwrap the barbed wire from the axle before continuing.

A lot of the serious brush trucks and tankers at the VFDs around here are surplus military gear.  They can be tricky to maintain, but when you've got to make an alternate route in a hurry, they work.

Absolutely not.

MRAPs are good on roads, but offroad they suck pretty bad.

It'd be a no-go.

Your best bet for obstacles and challenging terrain is a tracked machine, and for soft ground an LGP tracked machine.

Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: Scout26 on August 22, 2014, 12:54:01 PM

M249 SAW is a 5.56 LMG...



Sorry, I meant the M240B
Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: KD5NRH on August 22, 2014, 01:23:20 PM
I doubt it ... the MRAPs would be too heavy and awkward for off road fire suppression, and likely don't have a very good payload for water.

Stripping off the side and top armor (leaving the bottom as basically a hellacious skidplate) would allow a lot of extra weight capacity for a water tank, and most of the fire areas around here tend to be really uneven hardpan; in the drought (fire) season, it's more like very mild bouldering than mudding, but with the need to be able to drive over small to medium trees.

Now, when it rains properly, it's a different story, but there aren't nearly as many wildfires when the ground is soupy.
Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: Tuco on August 22, 2014, 01:39:56 PM
Hidden amongst rifles 5.56mm, cold weather gear, night vision goggles and a bugle are a couple handfuls of burst cams, at 4 bucks apiece.
Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: Tallpine on August 22, 2014, 01:41:18 PM
Stripping off the side and top armor (leaving the bottom as basically a hellacious skidplate) would allow a lot of extra weight capacity for a water tank, and most of the fire areas around here tend to be really uneven hardpan; in the drought (fire) season, it's more like very mild bouldering than mudding, but with the need to be able to drive over small to medium trees.

Now, when it rains properly, it's a different story, but there aren't nearly as many wildfires when the ground is soupy.
Most of the bigger vehicles are just used as water tender to supply the smaller "brush trucks" (typically 1-ton dually 4x4s with 200 gallon tanks).  So there really isn't that great a need to cover extremely rough ground.  The 6x6 trucks do well as tenders except they are slow on the highway and are limited to about 1000-1500 gallons.  The best rough ground fire fighting rig is a helicopter with a water bucket  ;)
Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: Boomhauer on August 22, 2014, 01:44:19 PM
Stripping off the side and top armor (leaving the bottom as basically a hellacious skidplate) would allow a lot of extra weight capacity for a water tank, and most of the fire areas around here tend to be really uneven hardpan; in the drought (fire) season, it's more like very mild bouldering than mudding, but with the need to be able to drive over small to medium trees.

Now, when it rains properly, it's a different story, but there aren't nearly as many wildfires when the ground is soupy.

No, it still sucks, and the armor is part of the structure, it's not bolt on.

Plus if something like that is acquired from the DOD through the 1033 program it needs to be maintained so as to be returnable should the .gov ask for it back, that is one of the conditions of the program.

The tires are still fairly narrow, and the hull shape sucks. Like I said, it's a shitty platform for off road. On road, be it paved or even a rough road, yes, but off road mobility sucks.

There are far better platforms for what you are proposing. Here is one.

This is an FMC (Food Machinery Corp) tracked skidder with a water tank. This is basically an APC chassis (Notice the similarity to the M113s, which were also built by FMC) with a forestry package instead of the APC troop carrier compartment.

(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kmc-kootrac.com%2Findustry%2FFireTracker_003exp.jpg&hash=c932478c4bdff4e05d5d06547d939c2c33bcd049)

Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: Phantom Warrior on August 22, 2014, 01:48:39 PM
Some safes, a bunch of tools, some first aid kits, some sleeping mats, couple radios, a lot of magazines, dozen rifles, cold weather gear, 31 "sustainment pouch" (WTF?)

Assuming the WTF is about the sustainment pouches, those are the two big pouches on the sides of the MOLLE ruck.

(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.armyproperty.com%2FEquipment-Info%2FPictures%2FMOLLE-Rucksack-3.jpg&hash=724384369b3f87b440aa02ec22bb4f103e67babe)

Right behind this guy's shoulder with the big "US" stamped on it...

Looks like this by itself: http://www.amazon.com/G-I-Military-MOLLE-Sustainment-Pouch/dp/B005LEPMSA (http://www.amazon.com/G-I-Military-MOLLE-Sustainment-Pouch/dp/B005LEPMSA)
Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: Tallpine on August 22, 2014, 01:50:25 PM
Wow - Boom and I actually agree  :lol:

The above picture is what I was calling a "skidgine" though the ones I've seen were 4 or 6 wheel rubber tired articulated instead of tracked.

I've actually thought about something like a 6x6 with a three point hitch on the back for a disk plow - something that could move down the road 30-40 mph yet create a fire break.   =|

One of the most useful firefighting rigs around here are the local ranchers who show up with a 100++ horsepower tractor with a big disk on the back.  :cool:
Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: Boomhauer on August 22, 2014, 01:54:30 PM
Quote
I've actually thought about something like a 6x6 with a three point hitch on the back for a disk plow - something that could move down the road 30-40 mph yet create a fire break.

Ya'll don't have any of the fire graders?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubfUt-alNCo

You boys need to write some grants for some heavy equipment and hire me to fix 'em and run 'em.

Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: Tallpine on August 22, 2014, 02:16:04 PM
Ya'll don't have any of the fire graders?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubfUt-alNCo

You boys need to write some grants for some heavy equipment and hire me to fix 'em and run 'em.
Heck, we can hardly even get our roads graded.  When we do, they usually make them worse.  :facepalm:

Montana isn't quite as flat a Texas.  I'm not sure how a grader would cross a steep sided coulee  =|  Come to think of it, I recall a mutual aid fire in the next county where a grader got stuck in a bog down in a coulee  :lol:
Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: AJ Dual on August 22, 2014, 04:52:21 PM
I'm disappointed. Milwaukee county only got a bunch of M16's and M14's.

And all they're ever going to do with the M14's is march in parades.
Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: KD5NRH on August 22, 2014, 04:54:59 PM
Montana isn't quite as flat a Texas.  I'm not sure how a grader would cross a steep sided coulee  =|

Then you need to start early; any ditch can be filled in if you work at it long enough.
Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: Firethorn on August 22, 2014, 05:38:26 PM
Greenville County SC--

The only thing I can imagine is causing the price discrepancy is auto vs full auto but that seems like a huge gap. And I would love to know what they're purchasing in 7.62 that they only paid $138.

A different article had the NSNs.  They're M-14s.  I wouldn't be surprised if $138 was the original purchase price.  Either that or it's the appreciated(inflation) depreciated(they're old) value.

Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: Tallpine on August 22, 2014, 05:42:46 PM
Then you need to start early; any ditch can be filled in if you work at it long enough.

I keep saying that we need paved roads built to every fire because I get tired of being bounced around  :P
Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: dogmush on August 22, 2014, 07:39:41 PM
A different article had the NSNs.  They're M-14s.  I wouldn't be surprised if $138 was the original purchase price.  Either that or it's the appreciated(inflation) depreciated(they're old) value.



Link?

I have FEDLOG and would really like to know which Truck, Utility my SO got. I'm thinking M35A2 or M9 31 series, but I don't have the nomenclature memorized.
Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: Ben on August 22, 2014, 08:08:49 PM
Link?

I have FEDLOG and would really like to know which Truck, Utility my SO got. I'm thinking M35A2 or M9 31 series, but I don't have the nomenclature memorized.

Ditto. I want to try and figure out what the $6.5 million aircraft is.
Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: Battle Monkey of Zardoz on August 23, 2014, 12:41:06 PM
http://thefreethoughtproject.com/man-awarded-125k-arrested-strip-searched-filming-nypd-stop-frisk/

It's the attitude more so than the weapons. These idiots with badges in this article should be in prison getting butt humped.
Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: RoadKingLarry on August 25, 2014, 01:33:48 AM
Did some more looking. Oklahoma County got 6 helos. A butt load of 5.56 rifles quite a few trucks and oddly enough a good pile of ski boots.
Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: Tallpine on August 25, 2014, 12:01:03 PM
Did some more looking. Oklahoma County got 6 helos. A butt load of 5.56 rifles quite a few trucks and oddly enough a good pile of ski boots.

Gotta take vacations in Colorado, you know  ;)
Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: TechMan on August 25, 2014, 12:22:57 PM

AEROBIC STEPPER BOARDS   8   EA   $50.00   
AEROBIC STEPPER PLATFORMS   10   EA   $50.00
BOXING GLOVES   1   PR   $50.00   
CAMOUFLAGE NET SYSTEM,RADAR SCATTERING   1   Each   $1,030.00
DETECTING SET,MINE   2   Each   $1,196.00
MONITOR PATIENT VITAL SIGNS   1   EA   $2,662.20   

16 - PISTOL,CALIBER .45,AUTOMATIC   1   Each   $58.71

Multiple pages of 5.56 rifles
Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: KD5NRH on August 25, 2014, 12:32:41 PM
AEROBIC STEPPER BOARDS   8   EA   $50.00   
AEROBIC STEPPER PLATFORMS   10   EA   $50.00

IOW, boxes that you can step up onto.  Could make 2-3 of them from a 2x12.

Quote
BOXING GLOVES   1   PR   $50.00

The going rate for nasty-ass used boxing gloves has gone up since the last garage sale I was at.

Quote
CAMOUFLAGE NET SYSTEM,RADAR SCATTERING   1   Each   $1,030.00

Is this just a fancier version of a ~$50 tarp, or does it include $50 worth of tent poles, too?

Quote
DETECTING SET,MINE   2   Each   $1,196.00

A couple of $200-300 metal detectors, and maybe some accessories that have little to no use outside of a battlefield.

Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: Balog on August 25, 2014, 02:23:34 PM
Wish I could buy a 1911 for $58.71.
Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: KD5NRH on August 25, 2014, 04:02:30 PM
Wish I could buy a 1911 for $58.71.

I'd even consider it if it was packaged with a couple of $50 butt-ugly step stools.  Sweaty, mouldy old boxing gloves might be going too far, though.
Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: slugcatcher on August 26, 2014, 09:32:58 AM
Three swords with scabbard in my county.  I wish it would narrow it down to each department.
Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: Hawkmoon on August 26, 2014, 09:02:40 PM
False advertising. The site claims to allow us to see how militarized our county and local police departments are becoming. Around here, unincorporated areas are few and far between, so there are virtually NO county police, and lots of municipal departments. But the database doesn't break it down any lower than county, which is essentially useless information since it doesn't tell me what agency within the county actually got the toys.
Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: Tallpine on August 26, 2014, 09:06:47 PM
Our county only has one LE agency so that makes it pretty simple  =)
Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: Battle Monkey of Zardoz on August 27, 2014, 06:24:02 AM
Our county only has one LE agency so that makes it pretty simple  =)

Yep. That "Standing Army" thang.
Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: Tallpine on August 27, 2014, 10:49:52 AM
Yep. That "Standing Army" thang.
Not sure what you are trying to say ...

The county seat has no city police force, and contracts with the sheriff dept for inside city limits. 

Which effectively means that the deputies hardly ever get out into the rest of the county except to write tickets on the main N/S highway  ;/
Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas on August 28, 2014, 01:33:01 PM
Maricopa county, AZ... looks like we could start a military surplus store.

Not entirely sure what the radar scattering netting is for.
Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: Ben on August 28, 2014, 02:14:02 PM
Not entirely sure what the radar scattering netting is for.

That would be to meet the dictionary definition of, "We'll never use this in a million years, but it's so cool we've got to get it!"
Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: Scout26 on August 30, 2014, 11:57:37 AM
A bit of buyer's remorse perhaps?
 
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/aug/28/police-saddled-with-unwanted-equipment-amid-milita/

But what I found most striking was the "Us v Them" attitude clearly conveyed but the Undersheriff.  That's the real problem.
Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: brimic on August 30, 2014, 12:03:31 PM
I'm disappointed. Milwaukee county only got a bunch of M16's and M14's.

And all they're ever going to do with the M14's is march in parades.

I remember about a decade or so ago, their Huey crashed, and there was a pretty strong outcry to not get a replacement. I remember the urinal sentinel making a big deal about the Police Chief at around the same time buying a .338 lapua sniper rifle for the department.
Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: Scout26 on August 30, 2014, 01:16:49 PM
Here's a picture of the Camouflage Netting, Radar Scattering in use by a M109 SP 155mm Field Artillery battery during Reforger.  Looks natural, doesn't it?


(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2F6%2F6f%2FReforger1986Germany.jpg&hash=b59aaea5fdea28d1fcb01957fcea6c7685bc8461) 
Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: Boomhauer on August 30, 2014, 02:48:08 PM
One of the things ya'll probably don't realize about the 1033 program is that a lot of the stuff is in mixed lots.

Like, for example, say you see 20 pairs of boots in a lot. Well you put in for that lot, but it also comes with the camo netting, some boxing gloves, and some excercise equipment. Well you can't tell them "Hey, we just want the boots", you are getting shipped the whole lot.

Title: Re: So How Militarized is your Police Agency
Post by: Ben on August 30, 2014, 04:03:27 PM
Except that DRMO lots are generally of the same general kinds of things. You won't get radar scattering nets with boxing gloves, just like you won't get M4s and Dell notebooks in the same lots.