Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Kestrel on October 24, 2008, 02:40:36 PM
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A friend of my wife told her a couple of weeks or so ago about voting early in a northern Georgia county. She said it took her 1-1/2 hours to vote. She said there were busloads of "voters" arriving in busses and the voting location was crowded. She indicated that these voters were not the typical residents of our district.
It's a STRONGLY Republican district and it was obvious to her these weren't on the level. After being here for many years, I've NEVER seen these kinds of voters crowding our polling locations.
It's alarming.
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its pretty clear that part of obama's plan to win involves massive vote fraud.
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its pretty clear that part of obama's plan to win involves massive vote fraud.
Again. Chicago.
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Lots of Illinois plates here in Lafayette, Indiana. Hanging around the early voting centers. :rolleyes:
Welcome to Chicago--Nationwide. =D
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Why should anyone accept Obama as a legitimate President?
That's what a lot of people are going to be asking.
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Why should anyone accept Obama as a legitimate President?
That's why a lot of people are going to be asking.
They can ask all they want, but it won't change anything, I'm afraid. The Republicans never pursue something like they should.
Why didn't they pursue Obama going to Iraq and asking Petraeus and the Iraqi president to delay withdrawing? That was illegal for him to do that, and yet, the Republicans roll over again.
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Every nation deserves the government it has. And I'll extend that to the Republican party as well. I know it sucks for those of us who pay attention and care, but if the rest of the country is gleefully point a loaded gun to our collective heads and our dear GOP is cheering them on...I'm not sure we deserve anything else. I wish we did. But if the GOP is going to let these kind of things happen all the time, which they do, they don't deserve to win. I'll still vote for them, but I'm not going to pretend like the GOP nobly fought the good fight. As for the nation, it's pretty clear we're intent on ignoring the Founding Fathers' warnings. And we'll get exactly what they said we would.
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"Every nation deserves the government it has" is true if they get to choose their government, they also deserve to reap the consequences of their choice(s) "good and hard".
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Choosing not to revolt, or choosing to let a small group hold the political process hostage counts as choosing to me. So does choosing to ignore a party that routinely engages in fraud, deception, and un-Constitutional laws making.
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Ahem.
"laws-making" Try "legislation"
"bussing" In this context, try "busing"
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I'm trying to see an Obama Presidency as part of a dialectical process, he being "antithesis." Painful but necessary and inescapable. We will all be sorely tested by what he brings, but we are going to learn one hell of a lot about ourselves and America.
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Ours is a dying republic. But it is fairly old as republics go, so maybe it's just time for it to go. Old age, so to speak.
Hopefully something better will eventually replace it.
I do fear for my children and grandchildren, the world they will be forced to live in.
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I'm trying to see an Obama Presidency as part of a dialectical process, he being "antithesis." Painful but necessary and inescapable. We will all be sorely tested by what he brings, but we are going to learn one hell of a lot about ourselves and America.
I don't know if we'll survive it intact. Not with our current lifestyle.
I'm sure the people in Argentina were shocked when their economy imploded, and pre-WWI London was a peaceful place of nothing but civilization and commerce.
Things can change quickly. And our infrastructure is a lot more interdependent than any that have ever existed before.
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What's really worth preserving will survive. Somewhere. Somehow. In some form. Even if it's Irish monks on a mountain top.
I have to believe that. But you're right, we will be much changed and there are no guarantees.
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It remains to be seen if the nation will reforge itself or whether a new nation will rise from the ashes of the ensuing flames. I really don't feel right about this election, out of the 4 I remember well.
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And in Georgia, we show ID at the polls. At least in my corner of it.
There's so much wrong, so much blatantly illegal about this election, and people trying to have stuff looked into are being blocked form doing so. The Supreme Court told Ohio to run with the unmatched voter registrations? Blatant campaign donation fraud? Absentee ballots cast by our active military being tossed out in Fairfax county (maybe more) Virginia, on a technicality they don't require of anyone else? Berg's lawsuit on establishing the O's status as a "natural born" citizen tossed because he "hadn't proved standing" of "injury in fact"? (Oddly, ruled that way on the day the Great One returned from Hawaii without the long form vault version of his birth certificate... or does that matter, since he was adopted by a foreign national, and had to forgo his American Citizenship to benefit from his Indonesian citizenship).
Call me crazy, call me a paranoid loon, but I don't have good feelings about this.
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The Election stinks--in so many ways.
But if Obama wins we will have the opportunity to do the hard thinking about many fundamental issues we have ignored while we were pursuing "happiness" at the expense of liberty.
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And in news from a former Republic...
Judge dismisses Obama birth certificate lawsuit
Rules voters don't have standing to 'police' constitutional requirements for president
Posted: October 25, 2008
3:14 pm Eastern
By Drew Zahn
© 2008 WorldNetDaily
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Philip J. Berg
A lawsuit filed by Democratic attorney Philip Berg alleging that Sen. Barack Obama is ineligible to be president was dismissed by a federal judge yesterday on grounds that Berg lacks standing to bring the lawsuit.
In a 34-page memorandum that accompanied the court order, the Hon. R. Barclay Surrick concludes that ordinary citizens can't sue to ensure that a presidential candidate actually meets the constitutional requirements of the office.
Surrick defers to Congress, saying that the legislature could determine "that citizens, voters, or party members should police the Constitution's eligibility requirements for the Presidency," but that it would take new laws to grant individual citizens that ability.
"Until that time," Surrick says, "voters do not have standing to bring the sort of challenge that Plaintiff attempts to bring."
Berg has maintained that uncertainty about how the U.S. does enforce the requirements of presidency may result in a constitutional crisis should an ineligible candidate win the office.
"This is a question of who has standing to stand up for our Constitution," Berg told Jeff Schreiber of America's Right blog. "If I don't have standing, if you don't have standing, if your neighbor doesn't have standing to ask whether or not the likely next president of the United States – the most powerful man in the entire world – is eligible to be in that office in the first place, then who does?"
As WND reported, Berg filed suit in U.S. District Court in August, alleging Obama is not a natural-born citizen and is thus ineligible to serve as president of the United States. Berg demanded that Obama provide documentation to the court to verify that the candidate was born in Hawaii, as Obama contends, and not in Kenya, as Berg believes.
Surrick did not rule on the birth certificate controversy, though he did express skepticism over the notion that a foreign-born Obama would have escaped the primaries without being discovered.
"Plaintiff would have us derail the democratic process by invalidating a candidate for whom millions of people voted," Surrick states, "and who underwent excessive vetting during what was one of the most hotly contested presidential primary [sic] in living memory."
Instead, Surrick cites Aritcle III of the U.S. Constitution, limiting federal judicial power to handling cases and controversies in which plaintiffs have clear standing through specific, personal injury.
Berg, the judge ruled, simply didn't have a case for a particular injury and thus, had no standing to sue.
Surrick's ruling cites a case deemed similar, Hollander v. McCain, in which it was alleged during the primary season that since he was born in the Panama Canal Zone, John McCain is not a natural-born citizen either. The judge in theHollander case also ruled a voter cannot sue to prevent an allegedly unconstitutional candidate.
Based in part on Hollander, Surrick concludes, "The alleged harm to voters stemming from a presidential candidate's failure to satisfy the eligibility requirements of the Natural Born Citizen Clause is not concrete or particularized enough to constitute an injury."
Surrick also quotes Lujan v. Defenders of Wildlife, which held, "The Supreme Court has consistently held that a plaintiff raising only a generally available grievance about government – claiming only harm to his and every citizen's interest in proper application of the Constitution and laws, and seeking relief that no more directly and tangibly benefits him than it does the public at large – does not state an Article III case or controversy."
Berg told America's Right that even if he technically can't hold Obama accountable to the Constitution, someone should. He plans to appeal his case to the Third Circuit Court of Appeals and then to the United States Supreme Court.
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Hon. R. Barclay Surrick concludes that ordinary citizens can't sue to ensure that a presidential candidate actually meets the constitutional requirements of the office.
Thats just wrong. Our nation was built because people questioned government.
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Ahem.
"Laws-making" Try "legislation."
"Bussing" In this context, try "busing."
Try that too.
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/24/AR2008102402489.html
Miss., Ala. counties have more voters than adults
»s
Friday, October 24, 2008; 4:37 PM
JACKSON, Miss. -- More than a third of Mississippi counties have more registered voters than residents old enough to cast a ballot, according to an Associated Press analysis.
In addition to providing ammunition for people who say the voting system is vulnerable to fraud, the flabby voting rolls may make it difficult to accurately determine turnout for the Nov. 4 presidential election.
"There is no reason in the world why some of these counties should have more registered voters than they have living, breathing people," Mississippi Senate Elections Committee Chairman Terry Burton said.
Despite the inflated voter rolls, "it's important not to leap to the conclusion that this means there have been many illegitimate voters," said Adam Skaggs, an attorney at the Brennan Center for Justice at New York University School of Law.
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He said the bigger problem _ in Mississippi and across the U.S. _ is that people have not registered at all or don't know they have been purged from the rolls.
In Mississippi, AP's county-by-county analysis compared voter registration figures released Thursday by the Secretary of State's office with Census figures from 2000, which provide the latest and most detailed information for the entire state.
Twenty-nine of Mississippi's 82 counties had more registered voters than people of voting age. Alabama has a similar problem _ The Birmingham News found that six of 67 counties there have more registered voters than people of voting age.
Mississippi and Alabama are heavily Republican states expected to choose John McCain over Democrat Barack Obama, though they have U.S. House and Senate races that could be close.
"The opportunity for fraud exists certainly if people are on the rolls that shouldn't be there," Burton said. "If there's one case of fraud, there's one too many."
He said people could theoretically vote, then go back and try to pass themselves off as people who have died, though he does not expect that. In Mississippi, only first-time voters who registered by mail must show identification. Without an ID requirement, election officials must rely on poll workers and voters to be honest.
In five Mississippi counties with inflated rolls, the discrepancy can be explained by rapid population growth. In the rest, the population has grown slowly or remained stagnant.
Larry Gardner, chairman of the Election Commissioners Association of Mississippi, attributed some inflated voter rolls to commissioners who "are not doing their job."
Gardner said in some counties, personality conflicts have led to power struggles between the circuit clerk and election commissioners. The circuit clerk, the county's chief elections officer, is supposed to help election commissioners purge the voter rolls. Gardner said some clerks have blocked commissioners from using county computers.
Secretary of State Delbert Hosemann's office compiled its own list of 24 counties with more registered voters than people of voting age. All are also on AP's list.
Hosemann said his staff has been working with election commissioners, showing them, for example, how to check Health Department records so they can purge dead voters' names.
But because of Mississippi's history of trying to suppress minority voting decades ago, the U.S. Justice Department must clear any changes in election laws or procedures. Some commissioners say they're reluctant to purge names because they don't want to run afoul of the department.
In the Jackson suburb of Madison County earlier this year, election commissioner Sue Sautermeister put more than 10,000 names on a list of inactive voters, a step short of purging. After complaints from other county and state officials, Hosemann's office restored them.
hows this work again?
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So why don't we have to show ID, prove we live in the district to vote?
While I may not agree with it, I have to show an ID to exercise my second amendment right, how should this be any different? Stinks of a double standard.
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You should have to have a NICS check in order to register to vote, along with some tangible proof of residency such as car registration or utility bills. :police:
Then a picture ID to prove you are the same person who actually registered.
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I don't think this Election would pass the "independent outside observer" smell test.
If we had the country we should have and the government officials, at all levels, we should have, this process would be stopped right now for an "audit."
But let the charade continue. Too many people will be upset by the truth.
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It's the Emperor's New Clothes.
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Actually, taurusowner, those aren't proper sentences. But yes, I should have added the periods.
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A friend of my wife told her a couple of weeks or so ago about voting early in a northern Georgia county.
Which county? I'm in Forsyth and will likely early-vote tomorrow.
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Don't worry, I am sure Jimmy Carter will certify this election for us.