Learning Java, should I take a class?

[Perd Hapley]

I've enrolled for two classes this semester.  One is a required history course, which I need to take and have actually been looking forward to.  Unfortunately, there are seven books for the course, and I have been promised that it will require lots of reading and thinking, in addition to things like going to history exhibits and reviewing them historiographically, attending an undergrad. research symposium and other events and writing about them. 

The other course is in Java, and I have also been told that this class requires a lot of homework.  I am wondering whether I should just drop this class, and learn Java on my own.  On the other hand, this class is a prerequisite for most of the other information systems classes I might want to take.  And on the third hand, I have found the previous info systems courses to be pretty easy. 

Is Java really that hard to learn?  Should I just drop, and take it next semester, after I've studied on my own a bit? 

Yes, I know it's only two classes, but I also work full-time, and I usually spend about three times longer doing homework than other people have to.  I just do everything slowly, I'm afraid.   

[Nick1911]

I'd take the class.  Is java your first programming language, or do you code in other things right now?

I've always learned things much better from a good instructor then from a book, though.

[Perd Hapley]

Sorry, I forgot to say anything about that.  I took a couple of programming classes in the mid-nineties, when I was a Comp. Sci. major.  FORTRAN, I think.  I did a little javaScript and visual basic last semester. 

But, no, as a matter of course, I don't "code" much of anything. 

[Tallpine]

The basics of programming are pretty much the same across languages.  Once you know how to do one well, you can (should be able to) jump in and self teach another language.

But afer ~15 years ...   

Probably good idea to start over.

[Nightfall]

Is Java really that hard to learn?  Should I just drop, and take it next semester, after I've studied on my own a bit?  

IMHO, Java is pretty easy to learn as far as programming languages go. It does a lot to prevent you from coding yourself into a dark corner. I also think Java code just reads easier to new people (less cryptic). There is a reason many schools teach it as a first language, and it's not to be sadistic.  

That said, I walked into Java having taught myself C++ some years before. Considering that syntacticly Java and C++ have a crap ton of similarities, my situation wasn't quite the same as yours. I walked out of the class with a +100%.  

THAT said, I also saw some fairly dim people do well in the class, walking in with absolutely no coding experience at all. Judging by your posts over the years, I doubt you'll have any trouble with the knowledge. I (and probably several others on this board) can help if needed.

Workload wise, I just can't say. My Java class was very easy to me. Maybe 3 hours a week of homework/reading on average. Keep in mind, too, that later assignments often can reuse code you've written, at least in part.

EDIT: Just to be clear, is this course described as an "intro to programming" course? Or is it a "Java for programmers" kind of course?

[Perd Hapley]

It's introductory. 

[Regolith]

It's introductory. 

Should be pretty easy, then, particularly if you already have some programming experience.

[Nightfall]

Yeah, take it. You'll probably find it too easy. 

[Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas]

Java is fine until you get into GUI. C++ is a bit simpler and doesn't include a GUI component.

[Perd Hapley]

Funny story.  The course description in the course catalog said that the class would cover Unix and C++.  But it turns out the class is all about Java.  I asked the prof what had happened to Unix and C, and he had no idea they were still in the course description, as they had switched from C to Java several years ago, and also dropped the Unix portion of the course.  He mistook my confusion for disappointment, and kept apologizing that we would not be using C.  Now if I drop the course, he'll think I just had my heart set on C.   

[CNYCacher]

You should be fine, especially in an introductory class.  We'll help you if need be.

[AmbulanceDriver]

IMHO, Java is pretty easy to learn as far as programming languages go. It does a lot to prevent you from coding yourself into a dark corner. I also think Java code just reads easier to new people (less cryptic). There is a reason many schools teach it as a first language, and it's not to be sadistic. 

My freshman year, I took a C++ class.  I learned the hard way that at the time, hard drives apparently did not have any physical protection to prevent the head from attempting to write to sector -1....

[Standing Wolf]

I'll recommend a box of dynamite.

[Tallpine]

My freshman year, I took a C++ class.  I learned the hard way that at the time, hard drives apparently did not have any physical protection to prevent the head from attempting to write to sector -1....

Oooh, the proverbial "out of bounds" error 

That's why real men code in C++ 

[roo_ster]

Life is too short to manually allocate memory.

[Tallpine]

Life is too short to manually allocate memory.

Well, there are those pesky arrays

[Nitrogen]

As someone that cleans up after programmers, please, take a class on programming theory and fundamentals if you are going to be doing this professionally at all.

To use an analogy you all will understand, many programmers are self taught, or learn by watching others.
Can you imagine how dangerous it'd be if a majority of gun enthusiests learned this way?  You'd be muzzle swept, see plenty of people shooting with out eye and ear protection, and other dangerous things.

You can be a really good shot while neglecting many of these basics that are very important.

Programming is the same.  You can learn by yourself, and end up doing things that shoot yourself in the foot by testing conditions the wrong way, muzzle sweeping by declaring the wrong kinds of variables, and other things.
It's best to avoid these bad habits as early as possible.

@Ambulancedriver, hardware is a lot more forgiving these days.  Most modern operating systems won't let programs directly access hardware just those reasons.

EDIT: Fixing a spelling mistake that would have annoyed Art' Grammaw if she saw it :)

[AmbulanceDriver]

Oh, I know Nitrogen.  I just found it amusing (in a *HOLY CRAP!!!!* kind of way) that by typing a zero instead of a 1, I was able to destroy a hard drive.

And yes, thankfully, you can't do that anymore (at least not accidentally).

Granted, I do have to say that the bemused expression on my CS prof when I explained to him what happened *was* kinda funny.... 

[Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas]

Can you imagine how dangerous it'd be if a majority of gun enthusiests learned this way?  You'd be muzzle swept, see plenty of people shooting with out eye and ear protection, and other dangerous things.

The majority of gunnies do learn that way. 

[GigaBuist]

The other course is in Java, and I have also been told that this class requires a lot of homework.

The homework assignments in intro level courses can last 15 minutes if you know what you're doing or 6 hours if you can't wrap your head around it.  The amount of work required is very dependent on the student.

You probably won't gain much by taking the class but you've got to plow through it sometime.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Leraning how to program is much more important than learning any particular programming language.

If it's a course on programming that just happens to use Java, then by all means take it.  If it's just a course on the Java language, then it's probably not worth the time.  Java is one of the easiest languages to learn, so taking a course purely for the sake of learning that language probably isn't worth it.

[Perd Hapley]

It's a course on object-oriented programming, but for info systems.  I.e; it's aimed more at business majors than computer scientists.  I'm neither one, of course.   

[CNYCacher]

Leraning how to program is much more important than learning any particular programming language.

If it's a course on programming that just happens to use Java, then by all means take it.  If it's just a course on the Java language, then it's probably not worth the time.  Java is one of the easiest languages to learn, so taking a course purely for the sake of learning that language probably isn't worth it.

This

[Perd Hapley]

Well, today was my last day to drop without being charged.  And drop I did.  Maybe later. 

[CNYCacher]

Wuss