FN HiPer

[Ben]

FN Herstel (vs FN USA) has released a new pistol, the FN HiPer. It's not available as of yet in the US and I can't find a lot of info about it. They seem to be, at least in Europe, designating it a police and military pistol.

The interesting concepts: The slide release is nearly where you would expect a thumb safety to be. The mag release is independent, ambidextrous levers. There are dual trigger springs.

They talked a lot about "using the lines of the Hi-Power in a modern package.

https://youtu.be/5L7SWuszr_4

[dogmush]

That kind of looks like what they should have entered in the MHS competition instead of the 509.

It looks neat, and I like FN pistols, but I'm too heavily invested in other platforms to swap over for a combat 9mm.  I do hope they bring it over here though.

[K Frame]

That may be the ugliest handgun I have ever seen, and that's saying a lot because there are some ferociously ugly handguns out there.

[Hawkmoon]

That may be the ugliest handgun I have ever seen, and that's saying a lot because there are some ferociously ugly handguns out there.

You beat me to it.

[MechAg94]

https://fnherstal.com/en/security/handguns/fn-hiper/
Seems to be the website for it. 


https://fnherstal.com/en/security/handguns/fn-five-seven-mk3-mrd/
A new version of the 5.7 pistol.  Long overdue.  I feel like FN has been milking the FN 5.7 and the PS90 for years.

[AZRedhawk44]

It illustrates the pursuit of increasingly smaller hands as a user base.  The slide release further back, the mag release further back.

I also note the Taurus-like grip angle.  The angle from the beavertail to the face of the trigger guard is downwards and not parallel to the direction of the barrel.  I think they should have spent more time reducing the height from the top of the trigger well to the bottom of the feed ramp.  It looks snappy and the grip angle being off-kilter to the barrel was a hack fix to the problem.  The net result with fixes like that is it drives the shooter to address the trigger closer to the top, where the fulcrum is and where more force is needed to work the trigger than down low.

They're full of *expletive deleted*it with it sharing the same grip angle as the Hi Power.  The beavertail to trigger face angle is parallel to the barrel on a Hi Power.  You can clearly see the grip lines diverge.

[Perd Hapley]

It illustrates the pursuit of increasingly smaller hands as a user base.  The slide release further back, the mag release further back.

Good. I wear XL gloves, but I guess my thumbs are a bit short, as I struggle to reach those controls on my pistols.

[Hawkmoon]

That may be the ugliest handgun I have ever seen, and that's saying a lot because there are some ferociously ugly handguns out there.

Yeah, it is pretty ugly ...

[Hawkmoon]

They talked a lot about "using the lines of the Hi-Power in a modern package.

If that's what they were aiming for ... they missed by a country mile.

Fortunately, several other companies are making real Hi-Powers.

[HankB]

It illustrates the pursuit of increasingly smaller hands as a user base.  The slide release further back, the mag release further back.

I also note the Taurus-like grip angle.  The angle from the beavertail to the face of the trigger guard is downwards and not parallel to the direction of the barrel.  I think they should have spent more time reducing the height from the top of the trigger well to the bottom of the feed ramp.  It looks snappy and the grip angle being off-kilter to the barrel was a hack fix to the problem.  The net result with fixes like that is it drives the shooter to address the trigger closer to the top, where the fulcrum is and where more force is needed to work the trigger than down low.

They're full of *expletive deleted*it with it sharing the same grip angle as the Hi Power.  The beavertail to trigger face angle is parallel to the barrel on a Hi Power.  You can clearly see the grip lines diverge.

I  think I see what you mean - looking at the contours of the backstrap and the location/angle of the trigger, it almost seems as if the shooter's wrist would be cocked downwards a bit instead of straight.

[Ben]

As far as looks, I'm not for or against the pistol. I posted because of the interesting control changes. That said, it looks like 90% of the other plastic striker fire pistols on the market. I don't buy a hammer because it looks sleek. A lot of people say that Walthers look like Hi Points, but current Walthers have some of the best ergonomics on the market.

I have guns with fine lines that mostly sit in the safe. Other than most of my 1911s, my working pistols and rifles would fit the "ugly" category, but they're tools, so I don't care.

[HankB]

As far as looks, I'm not for or against the pistol. I posted because of the interesting control changes. That said, it looks like 90% of the other plastic striker fire pistols on the market. I don't buy a hammer because it looks sleek. A lot of people say that Walthers look like Hi Points, but current Walthers have some of the best ergonomics on the market.

I have guns with fine lines that mostly sit in the safe. Other than most of my 1911s, my working pistols and rifles would fit the "ugly" category, but they're tools, so I don't care.

I really don't need another 9mm pistol, particularly a brand new model, even if it DOES come from an established firm. New guns, no matter HOW much they've been tested, tend to have bugs. (I had a Kahr P9 which was very problematic - and Kahr had been making other pistols for years.)

You mentioned Walthers . . . I'm sour on Walther for several reasons. First, once they discontinue a model, support erodes quickly. I found this out when my Walther LP-3 air pistol needed a replacement part which Walther had stopped supplying. I then found out that many shooters - including at least one college team - had the same problem with their OSP or GSP pistols (target guns with the magazine in front of the trigger guard) which they couldn't get serviced. Bummer. Then there's reliability - when I was shooting IDPA regularly, several people showed up with the then-new Walther P99. Great feeling grip, but they all eventually quit using them because once they got even a little dirty, they malfunctioned. No fix from Walther.

[dogmush]

The angle from the beavertail to the face of the trigger guard is downwards and not parallel to the direction of the barrel. 

What you describe is the result of designing  as low a bore axis as possible. People have decided that "low bore axis" is a desired design trait to tame the recoil of the mighty, long destroying 9mm.  So designers try and get the bore as close to in front of the web of the hand as possible.  Since  a browning tilting lock has certain mechanical things that have to happen under the barrel, what you end up with is a beaver tail that is above the top of the trigger opening.

You can see more or less extreme versions of this in the Steyr M, Lugo Alien, CZ P10, the Springfield Hellcat, and XDs Mod 2, Sig P365 series, and probably many more.  The HiPer does have one or the more extreme versions of this.  Despite my snark, this design feature does really help control muzzle flip and make recoil a more straight back push into your hand.  It also promotes the rotated wrist, thumbs forward grip that is currently the preference for fast shooting.

[AZRedhawk44]

What you describe is the result of designing  as low a bore axis as possible. People have decided that "low bore axis" is a desired design trait to tame the recoil of the mighty, long destroying 9mm.  So designers try and get the bore as close to in front of the web of the hand as possible.  Since  a browning tilting lock has certain mechanical things that have to happen under the barrel, what you end up with is a beaver tail that is above the top of the trigger opening.

You can see more or less extreme versions of this in the Steyr M, Lugo Alien, CZ P10, the Springfield Hellcat, and XDs Mod 2, Sig P365 series, and probably many more.  The HiPer does have one or the more extreme versions of this.  Despite my snark, this design feature does really help control muzzle flip and make recoil a more straight back push into your hand.  It also promotes the rotated wrist, thumbs forward grip that is currently the preference for fast shooting.

And yet if you look at a CZ-75 or 1911, the beavertail to trigger face is parallel with the barrel.  And these handguns have some of the lowest muzzle flip and lowest bore axis out there, and are ancient designs.

[dogmush]

The 1911 doesn't have a particularly low bore axis. I don't have any experience with a cz-75. Heavier guns flip less too. It's not a single variable equation. The 1911's weight and longish barrel help it with muzzle flip.

Regardless, the raising of the beaver tail and grip curve is a pretty common trait among pistols designed in the last 15 or so years.

[K Frame]

"A lot of people say that Walthers look like Hi Points, but current Walthers have some of the best ergonomics on the market."

I don't know about the rest of Walther's lineup, but I do know that the CCP fits my hand better than any other handgun I have ever handled. It's as if it were sculpted right for my hand.

I have one small complaint about the controls, that being the "protector hump" behind the magazine release being a bit on the high side, but otherwise, it's damned near perfect.

[Perd Hapley]

From reading this thread, I was expecting a real ugly duckling. It looks only a little more awkward than most. I guess the suppressor-height sights look a bit ungainly.

Remember, the benchmarks for ugly pistols in the 21st century are the Ruger American and the Remington R51.

Oh, yeah, forgot the Walthers.

[MechAg94]

What you describe is the result of designing  as low a bore axis as possible. People have decided that "low bore axis" is a desired design trait to tame the recoil of the mighty, long destroying 9mm.  So designers try and get the bore as close to in front of the web of the hand as possible.  Since  a browning tilting lock has certain mechanical things that have to happen under the barrel, what you end up with is a beaver tail that is above the top of the trigger opening.

You can see more or less extreme versions of this in the Steyr M, Lugo Alien, CZ P10, the Springfield Hellcat, and XDs Mod 2, Sig P365 series, and probably many more.  The HiPer does have one or the more extreme versions of this.  Despite my snark, this design feature does really help control muzzle flip and make recoil a more straight back push into your hand.  It also promotes the rotated wrist, thumbs forward grip that is currently the preference for fast shooting.

I don't think people touting low bore axis necessarily worry about the recoil.  Muzzle flip and follow up shots is more what I was thinking.  I think competitors want to do double and triple taps into a small A zone and think low bore axis helps them do that.  Whether it does or not up to the shooter.  I don't get into that enough to see the difference on most pistols.

[MechAg94]

The 1911 doesn't have a particularly low bore axis. I don't have any experience with a cz-75. Heavier guns flip less too. It's not a single variable equation. The 1911's weight and longish barrel help it with muzzle flip.

Regardless, the raising of the beaver tail and grip curve is a pretty common trait among pistols designed in the last 15 or so years.

Whatever the reason, IMO, the 1911 does tend to send the recoil force (what there is) straight back into the web of your hand compared to some other designs.  It certainly does that with the Coonan 357 I have shot.

I never fired a Hipower so I can't compare on that.

[French G.]

Least flippy  in my limited experience has been a glock 17. Better than a glock 34 even. A combination of slide weight, slide velocity, grip angle and location and probably plastic frame flex. At the time my two extensively shot handguns were the glock and an fn highpower . No way I can shoot as fast with the highpower but I love that gun. On a completely unrelated note my most accurate wonder nine was a beretta 92, not sure why I sold that.

[MechAg94]

Good. I wear XL gloves, but I guess my thumbs are a bit short, as I struggle to reach those controls on my pistols.

I am in the same boat with shorter thumbs.  I like the paddle mag release.  This one looks pretty neat. 

[French G.]

I am in the same boat with shorter thumbs.  I like the paddle mag release.  This one looks pretty neat.

Brings me back to how do you right handed people use right handed guns? I am very quick with magazines and the trigger finger does all the work. I would be lost with a left hand gun except for ambi safeties, I like those.

[MechAg94]

I am left handed.  I learned to shoot right handed and do okay.  I am fairly ambidextrous.  I try to shoot left handed here and there, but the learned movements for mag changes and such is hard to do left handed without more practice. 

[Ben]

Brings me back to how do you right handed people use right handed guns? I am very quick with magazines and the trigger finger does all the work. I would be lost with a left hand gun except for ambi safeties, I like those.

One of the reasons I have always like 1911s is that they were almost built for lefties. My FNX pistols have ambi mag releases, and I still default to using the "right hand" one out of muscle memory. Same with the slide release. I have longish fingers, so that may be of benefit to me.

[dogmush]

I hit the mag release with my trigger finger, but I really like having an ambi slide release.  It makes my reloads a lot faster. My Gen 4 and 5 Glocks have an aftermarket slide release, and it's quick.