It' Called Christmas, with a capital "C"

[Tallpine]

I spent 3 Christmas's in Ireland and their Christmas music really stank!

Uill, you just have to have an ear for harp and bagpipe 

[Desertdog]

By the way, Merry Christmas.

Merry Christmas ans Happy New Year to all.

[mustanger98]

When I was a depressed angst ridden teen age punk rock lefty anarchist, I used to go on and on about
Christmas being pagan and hating Christmas music.

Now that I'm an old right wing Christian anarchist I love saying merry Christmas especially if it makes young depressed liberals scream in agony.

American Christmas music is really great, we have much more humor in our songs (grandma got run over by a reindeer etc) Then for instance, the Irish.
I spent 3 Christmas's in Ireland and their Christmas music really stank!
Plus they do not watch "Its A Wonderful Life" either....the infidels!

When I was a young un-depressed Christian, I told anyone who'd listen about it being pagan. Now, I respond to "Merry Christmas" with "you too".

Watch it there... I may be an American first, but I'm at least partially of Irish ancestry. I may be a redneck, but "Grandma Got Run Over..." and the "Redneck 12 Days..." don't cut it for me. "The Second Week of Deer Camp" is much funnier.

"It's A Wonderful Life" isn't a Christmas movie... it's just that they show it at Christmas.

[Perd Hapley]

I understand the "Happy Holidays" point of view.  For a while, it even made sense to me.  After all, not everyone celebrates Christmas.  But to take that point further, not everyone is celebrating a holiday at this time of the year.  So, "Happy Holidays" could be just as "offensive" as "Merry Christmas." 

[gunsmith]

Uill, you just have to have an ear for harp and bagpipe

Ah, IF ONLY THEY WOULD PLAY IRISH TRAD!!

 Hardly anyone over there listens to trad, it's all generic stuff striving so hard to be inoffensive.

If you visit Ireland in December you'll hear "Driving Home For Christmas"
a billion times a day...check it out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THcbQyFtCqg

[gunsmith]

There is only ONE great Irish Christmas tune
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltiY-BqvOIU&feature=related

[Bigjake]

Now that I'm an old right wing Christian anarchist I love saying merry Christmas especially if it makes young depressed liberals scream in agony.

Isn't that the point?

[Tallpine]

Merry Christmas ans Happy New Year to all

Nollaig Chridheil agus Bliadhna mhath ?r dhuibh uile!

[atomd]

There is only ONE great Irish Christmas tune
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltiY-BqvOIU&feature=related

I love that song. Shane MacGowan is great...despite having the worst smile on the planet and completely uncontrollable alcoholism.

[RevDisk]

I still have to ask, what's so pagan about Christmas?  The name?  Christian.  The churchy stuff going on?  Christian.  The little figurines of Middle-Eastern characters?  Christian.  The star on top of the tree?  Christian.  The guy in the red suit who gives gifts?  Christian in origin. 

What's so pagan about it? 

It started off as Yule, the winter solstice.  It was the half way point of winter, and everyone partied to celebrate the fact.  Different pagan groups dressed it up with different traditions.  The Romans celebrated the birth of Sol (sun god) on Dec 25th, so good enough. 

Constantine and the church largely adopted the pagan holiday schedule, based on the season and mid season dates, to ease the conversion process.  Naturally, the overtly pagan aspects were supposed to be suppressed, but plenty leaked through and endured.   Tis why you have trees for Christmas, bunnies and eggs for Easter, etc etc.  Considering early Church folks miscalculated the year Jesus was born, chosing a political date for his birth can easily be forgiven.  (Herod was definitely king when Jesus was born.  Herod was pretty reliably recorded to have died in the Spring of 4 BC.)

An interesting perspective I've read was "Natal Day", Catholic Encyclopedia (1908 ed., V. 3, pg. 724).

To me and many other people I know, "Happy Holidays" is not generic, it is PC talk.

To borrow from LawDog, ::gigglesnort::

Part of my religious beliefs incorporate Nordic pagan traditions.  Most folks who more or less are similar in my belief structure typically do say "happy holidays".   If you equate the term to being PC and if you consider Viking style behavior to be politcally correct, I DEFINITELY want to come to your holiday party regardless of what ya celebrate.  I promise to bring weapons, copious amounts of alcohol and wenches. 

[Scout26]

Let's put the "X" back in X-mas !!!!!




 

[El Tejon]

scout, do you know that song?

Played that for the girlfriend.  All I received were eye rolls and "we don't have time, we have to go shopping."  You would think quasi-hippie chicks would be more open. 

I loved those guys when they were together.  Used to be on "Bob & Tom" regularly.  Remember "Elvis was a Narc?"

[Scout26]

El T,  Here's a link with their Christmas songs at the bottom of this page.

http://www.bobandtom.com/gen3/index.htm

I would advise against playing "I want a boob job for Christmas" for the girlfriend.......

We don't get them up here in Chicago.  I remember when they first started out on Q95 back in the early 80's......

[BridgeWalker]

I used to celebrate Jewish holidays and found "Happy Holidays" mildly annoying.  No one really knew much or cared about Chanukah.  Chanukah is a very, very minor holiday and it was annoying that it was practically the only Jewish holiday the general populace was aware of.  It was just irksome to sort of be lumped together with Christmas.

Now I'm Roman Catholic and just got back from a tridentine mass, complete with Latin, kneeling at the alter rail, wonderful music, and lots of vatican calisthenics (stand-sit-kneel-stand-sit-kneel).  It was incredible.  I defy anyone to go to a service of that kind and resolve that at least for the attendees Christmas is not about Christ.  It would be pretty hard. 

So, it's not the actual anniversary of His birth.  So what?  Heck, I've celebrated two birthdays for much of my life--the Hebrew calendar one and the regular one, sometimes occurring several weeks apart.  Dates and years are all human inventions.  An evergreen?  So what, who cares?  I like my Christmas tree.  Someone else holds a different meaning by it, or used to?  So?  This makes my holy day less holy how?

Nah, I don't care if random people on the street say "Merry Christmas" or not.  Frankly, I rarely do, mostly because I'm just too shy and I grew up in a Jewish community, so I'm still getting used to the idea that a whole lot, maybe most, of the folks I interact with are at least nominally Christian.  I like being wished a Merry Christmas.

I find "Happy Holidays" hokey though.  Disrespects everyone equally.

But Christmas is about Christ for a whole lot of people.  If it isn't to you, that is cool.  But don't go messing with my holy days.

[Perd Hapley]

Good post, delta9

So, it's not the actual anniversary of His birth.  So what?  Dates and years are all human inventions.

Well, there's nothing man-made about the cycles of the stars, planets, moon, etc.  But I know what you mean.  We don't know the date of Christ's birth, so why not Dec. 25?  I think that's what you're saying, and I agree.  The fact that this was chosen to occlude some pagan holiday DOES NOT mean that Christmas used to be pagan, or really, actually is pagan, or has pagan roots, or is really a celebration of the solstice, for which the Incarnation is but a symbol, or anything of the sort.  The fact that a bunch of pagans used to celebrate a holiday at this time, or that neo-pagans currently celebrate a holiday, or that some pagan traditions have worked their way into a very Christian holiday, doesn't change much, either. 

An evergreen?  So what, who cares?  I like my Christmas tree.  Someone else holds a different meaning by it, or used to?  So?  This makes my holy day less holy how?

Right.  In any case, the tree is only one aspect of possible paganism in a sea of Christian traditions.  In fact, there is even a story of a Saint Boniface, who invented the Christmas tree as a direct affront to pagan deities.  Pagan or Christian, it doesn't mean that much anymore.

I find "Happy Holidays" hokey though.  Disrespects everyone equally.

I'm not sure how it's hokey, or how it's disrespectful to those are celebrating a holiday.  But not everyone is celebrating a holiday at this time of year.  So if people won't say "Merry Christmas," then they shouldn't say "Happy Holidays," either. 

[230RN]

I can't wait until "The Feast Of The Circumcision."

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=%22Feast+of+the+Circumcision%22

[Scout26]

230RN,

What's the appropriate meal for "The Feast Of The Circumcision."

[230RN]

230RN,

What's the appropriate meal for "The Feast Of The Circumcision."

Beats me.  I've wondered about that for years, but I've been afraid to ask.  I can't wait for it 'cause "The Feast of the Circumcision" starts at 00:00:01 hours 01 Jan 2008.  Woo hoo!

[Iapetus]

The guy in the red suit who gives gifts?  Christian in origin. 

What's so pagan about it? 

I think the "guy in red" is the result of a merging of Christian and Pagan traditions.

Partly derived from the Christian story of St. Nicholas (who, in a number of European countries, is normally portrayed dressed in a bishop's robes, and delivers his gifts on 5th/6th of December, not on Christmas Eve. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_nicholas#Celebration_in_the_Netherlands

But also partly from Norse/Lapland pagan mythology.  (That's where the elves, reindeer, and living in Lapland/ the North Pole aspects come from).

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Claus and also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Father_Christmas (the traditional English name for the character).

[Perd Hapley]

Okay.

It has been said that bishops' (or cardinals') robes are the inspiration for the red Santa suit.  And then there's the whole "Kris Kringle" thing, which is is just wierd.  Look that one up on Wiki.   

[Desertdog]

I think the "guy in red" is the result of a merging of Christian and Pagan traditions.

Does it really matter where it started?  It's here.
To many there seems to be a effort to kill any Christian relationship to it by totally abolishing Christmas(Christ Mass) and return it to the Pagan ritual only.

[gaston_45]

230RN,

What's the appropriate meal for "The Feast Of The Circumcision."

Fried squid rings with cocktail sauce?

[Tecumseh]

I understand the "Happy Holidays" point of view.  For a while, it even made sense to me.  After all, not everyone celebrates Christmas.  But to take that point further, not everyone is celebrating a holiday at this time of the year.  So, "Happy Holidays" could be just as "offensive" as "Merry Christmas." 

They dont have to celebrate the holiday but NEw Years is a holiday.  If you say I hope you have a happy holiday it is not necessarily offensive.

I just think X-mas should not be a federal holiday.  It is a violation of the 1st amendment.  Unless they give every religious holiday off.  Ramadan, Hanukkah, and Easter come to mind.  Why not just make government employees use a sick day on X-mas if they want it off?  Private business can do as they see fit.

[Tecumseh]

Now that I'm an old right wing Christian anarchist I love saying merry Christmas especially if it makes young depressed liberals scream in agony.

Isn't that the point?

Because 'lil baby Jesus would want you to go around offending people in his name.

[Perd Hapley]

I understand the "Happy Holidays" point of view.  For a while, it even made sense to me.  After all, not everyone celebrates Christmas.  But to take that point further, not everyone is celebrating a holiday at this time of the year.  So, "Happy Holidays" could be just as "offensive" as "Merry Christmas." 

They dont have to celebrate the holiday but NEw Years is a holiday.  If you say I hope you have a happy holiday it is not necessarily offensive. 

Because everyone in America celebrates the new year on Dec. 31/Jan. 1, right?     Even if they did, it still wouldn't make any sense to wish someone "Happy Holidays" until about the last week of Dec.