Author Topic: 20 year old woman dragged from home by man in camo  (Read 14076 times)

BlueStarLizzard

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Re: 20 year old woman dragged from home by man in camo
« Reply #25 on: April 16, 2011, 07:37:08 AM »
Selby, in this case, one man is seen dragging off a rather tiny girl.

Most guys of my aquantance would be more the type to fight first, and ask questions later.

In other words, outside the PC "modern sensitive man" types, the first responce IS "WTF?!" Then run out and hit the bad guy.

This story would be more plasible is the brother had suffered injury or death when attacking the "camo man".

being a totally superficial person, this family doesn't look the type to produce the "modern sensitive man" type.
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Re: 20 year old woman dragged from home by man in camo
« Reply #26 on: April 16, 2011, 10:01:36 AM »
I remember the controversy, in Israel, over 'developemental tests' for children aged 6 through 9.

One of the questions in the test was 'What would you do if your house catches fire?'

Children who said anything other than 'call the fire department' were ranked lower, and the lower they got, the higher the chance of a family-services visit or a suspicion they were developementally challenged.

Hilarity ensued when they started dealing with children from rural Ethiopia, where no fire departments exist.
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MillCreek

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Re: 20 year old woman dragged from home by man in camo
« Reply #27 on: April 16, 2011, 10:32:01 AM »
In a house fire, the #1 response for children that age should be tell mommy/daddy and get out of the house.

Back when I was a paramedic and doing CPR training in the community, we always instructed people to call 911 first for a suspected cardiac arrest or heart attack.  That is for when you collapse in a heap after doing CPR for five minutes, hopefully the aid unit will have arrived by then. 

We recently had a situation up here in which an elderly woman had a cardiac arrest, her elderly husband started CPR, and the exertion caused him to have a heart attack.  The relatives found both of them dead a day or two later. 
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Re: 20 year old woman dragged from home by man in camo
« Reply #28 on: April 16, 2011, 11:20:54 AM »
Back when I was a paramedic and doing CPR training in the community, we always instructed people to call 911 first for a suspected cardiac arrest or heart attack.  That is for when you collapse in a heap after doing CPR for five minutes, hopefully the aid unit will have arrived by then. 

We recently had a situation up here in which an elderly woman had a cardiac arrest, her elderly husband started CPR, and the exertion caused him to have a heart attack.  The relatives found both of them dead a day or two later. 

At least they went together.
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seeker_two

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Re: 20 year old woman dragged from home by man in camo
« Reply #29 on: April 16, 2011, 01:38:20 PM »

For the record, I don't think it's right to talk about crime victims' "man cards."  The fact is, scary people and scary situations can freeze a lot of us...a good proportion of chest-beaters out there would lay down and take it just the same as most. 

Good point....unless you've trained a lot for situations like these, you WILL freeze....it's just human nature. If you have trained, then your training will kick in before your conscious brain starts processing....that is, most of the time.
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Lee

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Re: 20 year old woman dragged from home by man in camo
« Reply #30 on: April 16, 2011, 03:48:35 PM »
Any news updates on this? 

tokugawa

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Re: 20 year old woman dragged from home by man in camo
« Reply #31 on: April 16, 2011, 03:54:28 PM »
 there is something fishy about this. 

Tallpine

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Re: 20 year old woman dragged from home by man in camo
« Reply #32 on: April 16, 2011, 04:30:31 PM »
No one ever accused me of being "sensitive"  :P
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gunsmith

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Re: 20 year old woman dragged from home by man in camo
« Reply #33 on: April 16, 2011, 05:31:27 PM »
its looking like camo man didn't drag her rather had his arm around her and brother thought it was her boyfriend , you know how sometimes in the movies the bad guy puts his arm around the victim and threatens to use the knife to the throat trick.

looks like that might be the case, it might have been far enough away, her pic on facebook shows what I guess is her boyfriend and he does wear a camo hat, it was early in the morning and brother may not have had his caffeine yet, how can anyone expect you to be security conscience without your morning dose?
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Re: 20 year old woman dragged from home by man in camo
« Reply #34 on: April 16, 2011, 05:38:07 PM »
I guess I'm from a different generation -- or maybe a different planet.

In an urban setting, if you see something going down involving a couple of strangers, I can understand being wary about intervening directly and calling 9-1-1 instead. But even then I think I'd be tagging along to be the proverbial "good witness."

A situation at my HOME, with a guy dragging my SISTER into the woods? I'd be out the door before it had time to open. And it has nothing to do with muscle memory, or training. Who trains for seeing their sister being abducted? You're either a person who responds to crises by acting -- or you're not. I don't know many people of my generation who "freeze." I'm sure they exist -- but not many in my circle of acquaintances.

When we were kids, my kid sister and her friend went for a walk in the woods near my grandparents' house and didn't come out. My mother called the cops ... who called the fire department ... who set up a command post in the grandparents' driveway and were in the process of arranging search teams and assigning sectors when I walked out of the woods with the girls in tow.

It was getting dark. Sometimes you just gotta DO things.
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Re: 20 year old woman dragged from home by man in camo
« Reply #35 on: April 16, 2011, 05:45:18 PM »
in this case though the brother wasn't seeing anything out of the ordinary, & the news is now saying she wasn't dragged into the woods- the brother looked out the window and simply saw his sister and what he thought was her boyfriend walking into the woods
Politicians and bureaucrats are considered productive if they swarm the populace like a plague of locust, devouring all substance in their path and leaving a swath of destruction like a firestorm. The technical term is "bipartisanship".
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Re: 20 year old woman dragged from home by man in camo
« Reply #36 on: April 16, 2011, 05:50:39 PM »
I got this from an online news source, my pc isn't working up to speed so I can't find which article from what newspaper, hopefully not enoughth for a trademark  dispute



Quote
The TBI yesterday also dispelled rumors regarding the sequence of events that led to the disappearance of the 20 year old UT Martin nursing student.

An initial report, released by the TBI on Wednesday, stated that Bobo's brother had seen his sister being "drug across the carport" of their Swan Johnson home. Authorities corrected the statement, stating that the 25 year old brother had seen his sister in the carport with a man in camouflage, from behind.

Moments later, he saw his sister walk towards the woods with the man in an unforceful manner, as if she was being led.

Holly Bobo's brother did not become suspicious of the events until he discovered blood in the carport. Authorities have stated that she was not forcefully abducted, but rather led away.

The TBI reported yesterday during a press conference that she may have been in fear for her life when she was taken from the home.

Dana Bobo, Holly's father, said on Thursday, that he believed that it may have been someone that knew the family's routine.
Politicians and bureaucrats are considered productive if they swarm the populace like a plague of locust, devouring all substance in their path and leaving a swath of destruction like a firestorm. The technical term is "bipartisanship".
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seeker_two

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Re: 20 year old woman dragged from home by man in camo
« Reply #37 on: April 16, 2011, 07:00:32 PM »
I got this from an online news source, my pc isn't working up to speed so I can't find which article from what newspaper, hopefully not enoughth for a trademark  dispute


Hmmmm....that explains a lot....thanks for the clarification....
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230RN

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Re: 20 year old woman dragged from home by man in camo
« Reply #38 on: April 18, 2011, 11:46:38 AM »
Freeze-up as an adaptive response?

Quote
Good point....unless you've trained a lot for situations like these, you WILL freeze....it's just human nature. If you have trained, then your training will kick in before your conscious brain starts processing....that is, most of the time.

I've seen that happen in myself once or twice.  I'm not sure whether it was an "assessment phase" or a built-in neural response.

Looking back on those occasions (once was when a car just sailed off into the woods at full traffic speed) I wonder if that was some kind of adaptive survival response or what.

Maybe we ought to call it the "Opossum Response" and it has some kind of adaptive advantage.  I do know that certain strains of rats go into seizures when loud jingling noises (like the rattling of a key ring) occur, and that certainly appears to be a purely built-in neural reponse, but I don't see any adaptive advantage to that particular phenomenon.

I'm also reminded of the fact that certain dogs (even large breeds) go all bonkers with thunder and gunshots.  Now that one I can understand as being somehow adaptive.

Anyone else have this freeze-up experience (gun-related or not) and get a chance to analyze it afterward?  Or am I just a wimp?

Terry, 230RN
« Last Edit: April 18, 2011, 11:57:49 AM by 230RN »
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AJ Dual

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Re: 20 year old woman dragged from home by man in camo
« Reply #39 on: April 18, 2011, 12:05:43 PM »
There was a pretty bad car wreck about 20 car lengths in front of me on I-94 last year. Young woman in a compact car, (I suspect texting) got my notice because she was weaving in and out of rush-hour dense traffic, clipped a work-van, then spun sideways and went into the middle divider, sending debris everywhere like a NASCAR crash, and she bounced back out into the middle lane.

It was kind of slow-mo, and very heavy on the surreal "Is this REALLY happening?" feeling.

Traffic went through the usual shocked shuffle of some going on, some stopping, some pulling over. I actually made an effort to navigate around the other cars and pull up even with her, and got out. The front end of her car was smoking badly, and not knowing if it was actually steam from coolant, or actual fire, I figured I needed to move. Someone else not paying attention and ramming into her wreck was also on my mind too.

Getting out of the car and running onto the freeway up to her car was a VERY strange feeling. Despite knowing intellectually I was doing something "right", it felt wrong on a very deep gut level, like... standing up in church during a moment of silence, and screaming obscenities, or the same uncomfortable feeling if someone else were to do it. Or like witnessing an ugly domestic fight right in the middle of a nice restaurant etc.

As I got around to the driver's side, I was able to see the woman sitting up in her seat, looking very stunned in a cloud of airbag smoke, but otherwise looking kind of intact. I rapped on the window to get her attention, and she opened the door. Surprising myself that I managed to think of, I told her to wait a bit, to make sure her back/neck was okay before she moved and weigh that against the risk of fire (which was looking more to be coolant steam), but in shock, she just got out of the car, presumably physically okay, and stood there looking dumbly at the car.

I finally had to yell at her and grab her elbow that she should come to the side of the road with me in case someone ran into her wreck (and us). Once off to the side, I tried asking her if she was okay again, but in brain-lock, shock or whatever (drugs maybe?), she wouldn't answer, and just started picking at her phone, as if figuring out who to call.

Looking back, I saw several people stopped on the emergency lane on their phones, and could already hear sirens, so I did not bother to call 911.

State troopers and some firemen led her away, and I stuck around to fill out an accident witness report.

What really struck me about that innate desire to freeze, or not get involved, was that it felt almost as if you were about to do something embarrassing or wrong, like stage fright, or farting in church.  ???

I promise not to duck.

vaskidmark

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Re: 20 year old woman dragged from home by man in camo
« Reply #40 on: April 18, 2011, 12:15:31 PM »
There arew folks who freeze up, and there are folks who go on "auto pilot".  I'm apparently one of the latter.

I have a few ideas about why I go on auto pilot.  As a child I learned/adapted to making contingency plans for the contingency plans I made in case the contingency plans I had made did not work out.  All part of the survival mechanism of a child growing up in an abusive environment.  It became so ingrained that I still do it to this day.  Some situations are, to me, so "familiar" that I do not consciously plan things out but seem to literally call up plays from a well-memorized playbook.

Those that freeze up often seem to be caught dead in the water trying to get their OODA loop jump-started.  It's as if they cannot accept the reality of the situation and are holding an internal conversation with themselves, trying to convince some part of their brain to either admit the reality  no matter how foreign or to declare the situation a hallucination.

There is a third category I have seen - those who are so afraid that they also literally freeze up.

I've met all three categories in combat.  The first one is really scary because I must trust that their idea of a response is actually useful.  The second one is not too bad to deal with if one takes over and starts giving orders/instructions.  The third category is not a problem, as you can always go back and get them after everything is over.  They are good for humping supplies to the scene and for policing up the battlefield after things are restored to peace and order.

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Re: 20 year old woman dragged from home by man in camo
« Reply #41 on: April 18, 2011, 12:24:14 PM »
Most that have been through some form of military boot camp and subsquent training in high stress situations will most likely go into auto pilot as described. I witnessed a pretty horrific highway crash. Ejected people under the car etc, Once I discovered the body under the car I too went into AP and somehow ended up back at the immediate scene with my car jack.  It wasn't till after it was all over that the part about freaking out kicked in. PTSD for sure.  ;)
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Re: 20 year old woman dragged from home by man in camo
« Reply #42 on: April 18, 2011, 12:28:30 PM »
As volunteer wildland firefighters, we have to actually train to stop and assess the situation before jumping into action.  Most of us just want to jump in and do something even if it is dangerous or not helpful.

But there are some who can't seem to remember, either on a fire or in training, the basic tasks like jump out of the truck, set the chocks, start the pump, turn on the valve to the booster reel, and pull out the hose ...  ;/
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MillCreek

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Re: 20 year old woman dragged from home by man in camo
« Reply #43 on: April 18, 2011, 12:47:16 PM »
As volunteer wildland firefighters, we have to actually train to stop and assess the situation before jumping into action.  Most of us just want to jump in and do something even if it is dangerous or not helpful.

But there are some who can't seem to remember, either on a fire or in training, the basic tasks like jump out of the truck, set the chocks, start the pump, turn on the valve to the booster reel, and pull out the hose ...  ;/

As a former paramedic and firefighter instructor, I would routinely fail people during an exercise if the first words out of their mouth was not 'assess scene safety first' before doing something.  The people who grab an ax and run solo into a burning building after leaping off the truck always gave me the heebie-jeebies.
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Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
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roo_ster

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Re: 20 year old woman dragged from home by man in camo
« Reply #44 on: April 18, 2011, 12:56:56 PM »
Most guys of my aquantance would be more the type to fight first, and ask questions later.

In other words, outside the PC "modern sensitive man" types, the first responce IS "WTF?!" Then run out and hit the bad guy.

Same here.  

No one ever accused me of being "sensitive"  :P

I've been to enough of the trainings, I oughta be able to teach the classes.

Most that have been through some form of military boot camp and subsquent training in high stress situations will most likely go into auto pilot as described.

Even before boot camp, I was not too likely to freeze.  I think it might have been the contact sports training where application of force on another requires breaking of societal constraints to get the job done.  And praise is doled out when such application is exceptionally, uh, forceful.

I think the "not-freeze" response is something that is amenable to training and/or conditioning just like most other human behaviors.  If you have never been in such a situation, it will take most folk a moment (at least) to work through it.

In HS (before .mil service), when a gal ran into my stopped auto at 55MPH, I got out and had to do some damage to her auto to be able to see how she was doing.  Others were crying, "We can't open the doors!!!!" I hesitated to think about:
1. "Hmm, I'm about to break a car window."
2. How to do so without injuring myself.
The other folks seemed unable to overcome their inhibitions against destroying property.  I figured her auto was totaled anyways and she needed to be evaluated.


The people who grab an ax and run solo into a burning building after leaping off the truck always gave me the heebie-jeebies.

Well, yeah, since that sounds like a scene form a bad slasher flick.
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tokugawa

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Re: 20 year old woman dragged from home by man in camo
« Reply #45 on: April 18, 2011, 01:12:44 PM »
AJ- that "lock up and try to figure out what is real thing" is very like a lot of folks response to violent attack.

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Re: 20 year old woman dragged from home by man in camo
« Reply #46 on: April 18, 2011, 02:09:17 PM »
For the record, I don't think it's right to talk about crime victims' "man cards."  The fact is, scary people and scary situations can freeze a lot of us...a good proportion of chest-beaters out there would lay down and take it just the same as most. 

For the record, I do think it's right to talk about it.

I've NEVER been to boot camp or basic.  I've never been a cop.  I've never been a paramedic.  I've never been a firefighter.

I've never been a "hero." ;/

You don't need to be a frakking hero, to be a Man.

And yes, I've been tested in this regard at various points in my life from age 13 to the most recent at age 25, all prior to owning/carrying a gun regularly.  Two of the three times I was still a brainwashed idgit libtard.  Passed, all three times.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: 20 year old woman dragged from home by man in camo
« Reply #47 on: April 18, 2011, 04:13:47 PM »
Quote
it felt wrong on a very deep gut level, like... standing up in church during a moment of silence, and screaming obscenities

People never like it when I do that.
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Re: 20 year old woman dragged from home by man in camo
« Reply #48 on: April 18, 2011, 04:34:31 PM »
As a former paramedic and firefighter instructor, I would routinely fail people during an exercise if the first words out of their mouth was not 'assess scene safety first' before doing something.  The people who grab an ax and run solo into a burning building after leaping off the truck always gave me the heebie-jeebies.

My first words on every scenario during classes/testing:

"BSI! Scene Safe?"
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Re: 20 year old woman dragged from home by man in camo
« Reply #49 on: April 18, 2011, 04:39:34 PM »
I don't know what I am.

I know when to freeze and when to jump.
I have to do both at work, so...

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