New style policing

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2014/12/wife_questions_portland_police.html
Might get mixed reviews.
Country witticism goes
" sometimes the telling is sweeter than the tasting"

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[vaskidmark]

Damned if you so, double-damned if you don't.

Cops should not be looked upon as mobile mental health crisis interventionists.  Taxpayers do not want to pay for mobile mental health crisis interventionists.

Why wasn't the neighborhood priest/pastor/rabbi/shaman summoned?  I know that if I was suicidal/homicidal and some theologian showed up to try and convince me that $diety did not want me to/would not approve of me committing suicide/homicide I would drop my plans to discuss the finer points of the falicies of their screed.  But then, that's just me.

stay safe.

[zxcvbob]

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.  (vaskidmark beat me to it)

[griz]

It sure must be easy to be a police officer.  All you need is the 20-20 hindsight that everybody has, but you have to be right before it becomes hindsight.

Did you catch the 20K < number of wellness checks?  That's over 50 times a day that an officer has to sum up the situation and decide whether the person is really a danger to him/her self or others, is having a bad day and just doesn't want to answer the door, the caller is the crazy one (it happens), or as in this case, saving the spouse the trauma of finding the body.  It's a wonder they get it right most of the time.

[dogmush]

While this is tragic, I think the cops were right.

No evidence of a crime having occured, or in the offing. Not their problem. Like skid said, mental health intervention isn't really a cop function, and has a good chance of going bad.

What we need to do is decondition the populace from thinking LE  is a one size fits all fix it man.

[Boomhauer]

It sure must be easy to be a police officer.  All you need is the 20-20 hindsight that everybody has, but you have to be right before it becomes hindsight.

Did you catch the 20K < number of wellness checks?  That's over 50 times a day that an officer has to sum up the situation and decide whether the person is really a danger to him/her self or others, is having a bad day and just doesn't want to answer the door, the caller is the crazy one (it happens), or as in this case, saving the spouse the trauma of finding the body.  It's a wonder they get it right most of the time.

And if you do throw somebody in cuffs and send them in for an involuntary hold, then the wife would have screamed about you doing something and sued for excessive force ("why did you have to put him in cuffs? He wasn't hurting nobody!"). Cops aren't mental health workers, and dealing with an emotionally disturbed person is not a situation where you can just dispense hugs and good vibes and call it good, the summoning party always expects you to fix it right there, like in the movies.

[Hawkmoon]

The alternative to walking away is for the cops to arrest both the husband and the wife, which is SOP in my state. Same mentality as schools punishing the kid who defended himself against an assault the same as they punish the assailant. Makes for much easier policing -- book everyone on a "domestic disturbance" charge and then let the courts sort it out.

Somewhere between arresting everyone in sight, and just walking away, there must be a viable approach.

[RoadKingLarry]

Somewhere between arresting everyone in sight, and just walking away, there must be a viable approach.

Drone strike.

[Perd Hapley]

Cops should not be looked upon as mobile mental health crisis interventionists.  Taxpayers do not want to pay for mobile mental health crisis interventionists.

Correct. A big part of what is wrong with policing today is that we expect police to resolve all kinds of situations that aren't law enforcement issues.

If she wanted to press charges against him for damaging her property, maybe that would have been in their purview. The article says she called because she "thought something was wrong with him." Given the information so far, I guess I'm OK with the cops' decision.

[lee n. field]

While this is tragic, I think the cops were right.

No evidence of a crime having occured, or in the offing. Not their problem. Like skid said, mental health intervention isn't really a cop function, and has a good chance of going bad.

What we need to do is decondition the populace from thinking LE  is a one size fits all fix it man.

Sooooo...what are they good for?

[dogmush]

Not sure if serious?

Law Enforcement.  They can give me a report for my insurance company after a robbery or car accident or some such.  They can apprehend folks that have committed an actual crime.  If they are extraordinarily lucky they will be around and can actually stop a crime in progress.

That's about it really.

[Regolith]

While this is tragic, I think the cops were right.

No evidence of a crime having occured, or in the offing. Not their problem. Like skid said, mental health intervention isn't really a cop function, and has a good chance of going bad.

What we need to do is decondition the populace from thinking LE  is a one size fits all fix it man.

Yup. Had they intervened, there was a good chance they'd have ended up shooting the guy anyway, and one dude stabbing himself is better than two or three police officers emptying their guns into the guy in a crowded apartment complex.

[Hawkmoon]

Sooooo...what are they good for?

Dunkin' Donuts bottom line.

[BlueStarLizzard]

... if someone is acting erratically due to possible chemical influence and needs medical attention, isn't that what paramedics are for?

[bedlamite]

The alternative to walking away is for the cops to arrest both the husband and the wife, which is SOP in my state. Same mentality as schools punishing the kid who defended himself against an assault the same as they punish the assailant. Makes for much easier policing -- book everyone on a "domestic disturbance" charge and then let the courts sort it out.

Somewhere between arresting everyone in sight, and just walking away, there must be a viable approach.

I got pinched!

Which is what happens when you call the Feds.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

... if someone is acting erratically due to possible chemical influence and needs medical attention, isn't that what paramedics are for?

Paramedics won't go till the weapons are gone


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[Tuco]

...............

The article says she called because she "thought something was wrong with him." Given the information so far, I guess I'm OK with the cops' decision.

Makes me wonder if Wife called 911 because of Husband's strange behavior, then because of the neighborhood, nature of the call, or some other subjectivity at central dispatch, the 5-0 was sent instead of the bamb-ulance.  

eta- Did I miss the mention of weapons in the article?

etaa -

Hampton said she met police in the parking lot of the apartment complex and told them what had happened. Police asked if her husband had any weapons. She said no.

My original postulate stands. 
Queue the tile crawlers.

[MillCreek]

... if someone is acting erratically due to possible chemical influence and needs medical attention, isn't that what paramedics are for?

Here in this area, for a 'EDS' (emotionally disturbed subject) call with no reports of injuries, police are dispatched first, and they bring in EMS as needed.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Here in this area, for a 'EDS' (emotionally disturbed subject) call with no reports of injuries, police are dispatched first, and they bring in EMS as needed.

Here too. And wisely so. Folks "forget" to tell dispatch how crazy their kin are acting often


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[dogmush]

Here too. And wisely so. Folks "forget" to tell dispatch how crazy their kin are acting often


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I'm not sure that I mind the police being dispatched.  Like CSD says, the folks calling dispatch sometimes lie, overlook things, or just don't really communicate well.  When the PoPo shows up, they can look around assess crazy (into "imminently dangerous" or "not") and leave if no crime. WTF is a paramedic going to do to a non injured, disturbed person?

Possibly give the cops a bunch of cards with the national suicide hotline on them to hand out.

Look, part of being free is being an adult and solving your own damn problems.  Dude hadn't broken a law, and didn't seem inclined to at the time, so the cops left.  It sucks that his family and emotional support net couldn't talk this guy through whatever was so bad, but that's their job, not the cop's.

[BlueStarLizzard]

Paramedics won't go till the weapons are gone


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but the cops had determined (well, as much as the determined anything) that the guy had no weapons and was not a danger to himself or others.

In other words, cops had come, determined it wasn't their problem, wife still thinks there is a problem, so call paramedics?

For the record, I don't think the cops did wrong, nor do I think this kind of thing is really law enforcements cup 'o tea. I'm just asking, because it's possible this guy got ahold of pot that was laced with something else and reacted badly, ultimately causing his death. Which would fall into "medical" rather than "legal" and paramedics do medical.

*shrug* I guess the whole situation just basically comes down to being up shits creek without a paddle for everyone involved. I was just trying to think of what could have been done better.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

If the guy can hide his crazy the cops have no reason to call em.  Sadly it's quite difficult to get a disturbed person help if they are unwilling. Damn near impossible till AFTER they do something bad if they are determined to hide what's going on inside. I have taken more nuts to the hotel silly than I wanna think about. I am always so grateful when they let me leave.


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