Author Topic: Ahh. Amnesty is in the air.  (Read 5469 times)

Battle Monkey of Zardoz

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,915
  • A more Elegant Monkey for a more civilized Forum.
Ahh. Amnesty is in the air.
« on: April 30, 2010, 03:17:01 PM »
Well. We have talked about this. Now amnesty is being talked about by Reid. The little toad also wants us "American Workers" to get a new SS card, chipped of couse. Why?  Why make legal folks do
anything?  I know. Wanting something to make sense in DC is a futile effort
 


Democrats unveil immigration-reform proposal
By Perry Bacon Jr.
Thursday, Apr 29, 2010
Senate Democrats officially unveiled a proposal to reform America's immigration system on Thursday, looking past the fact that no Republican has offered support for the effort and President Obama a day earlier played down the chances of legislation passing this year.

Seeking to woo Republicans, the 26-page framework, which has not yet been written into a formal bill, emphasizes first taking steps to limit illegal immigration before offering new rights for those here illegally. But the REPAIR (Real Enforcement with Practical Answers for Immigration Reform) proposal, as Democrats dubbed it, also would create a pathway to legal status for an estimated 10.8 million people who are already in the country illegally, an idea opposed by many conservatives.

Under the proposal, illegal immigrants currently in the United States would be eligible for legal status in eight years, as long as they learned English, had not committed a crime and paid their taxes. The federal government would increase funding for border security and
Quote
require all American workers get a new version of their Social Security card that would include a biometric identifier to protect against the creation of counterfeits.

"I say to my Republican colleagues, work with us to fix this broken system, don't just say no," said Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) in a Thursday evening press conference.

In a statement released by the White House, Obama called the proposal "a very important step in the process of fixing out nation's broken immigration system."

But the only Republican who had been negotiating with Democrats on the issue, Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.), criticized the proposal, saying "it is our belief that Congress should focus on border security first," in a joint statement with Sen. Jon Kyl (R-Ariz.), the No. 2 Republican in the Senate.

And House Minority Leader John A. Boehner (R-Ohio.) dismissed the proposal as a"cynical ploy to try to engage voters, some segment of voters, to show up in this November's elections." Republicans have suggested Reid is pushing the bill to gain the support of the large segment of Latino voters in his state, where polls showing him flagging in his re-election campaign.

"There is not a chance that immigration is going to move through the Congress," Boehner said. "You cannot do a serious piece of legislation of this size, with this difficulty, in this environment."

Reform Immigration for America, a group helping organize rallies this weekend to promote legislation similar to what the Democrats are proposing, praised the outline and called on both the Obama administration and the Republicans to embrace it.

"This is not a political game, and Republicans can not simply be the party of obstruction. They must offer solutions," the group said in a statement. They added, "The White House must play a stronger and more high profile role."

Senate Democrats say it was vital for Congress to pass new immigration soon in the wake of the passage of a controversial law in Arizona that allows calls on local and state law enforcement to question people about their immigration status if there's reason to suspect they're in the country illegally, and which makes it a state crime to be in the United States illegally.

"The urgency of immigration reform cannot be overstated," said Sen. Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.), one of the main authors of the proposal.

Obama told reporters on Wednesday there may "not be an appetite" in Congress to get immigration done this year.

And House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) was similarly noncommittal on Thursday, saying "the legislation will have to begin in the Senate. And she passed the baton back to Obama.

"If there is going to be any movement in this regard, it will require presidential leadership," she said.

Staff writer Paul Kane contributed to this report.

http://mobile.washingtonpost.com/rss.jsp;jsessionid=674A51C962294DA70DE399065AD59D74?rssid=597&item=+http%3a%2f%2fwww.washingtonpost.com%2fwp-syndication%2farticle%2f2010%2f04%2f29%2fAR2010042904512_mobile.xml+&cid=585&spf=1

“We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.”

Abraham Lincoln


With the first link the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.

red headed stranger

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,263
Re: Ahh. Amnesty is in the air.
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2010, 03:59:41 PM »
It's looking like immigration is going to be the major wedge issue this election cycle. 

I think that the Democrats are going to be surprised in some of their elections.  Just because some one is hispanic, does not mean that they are going to support amnesty. There are lots of naturalized citizens who would be very resentful of anyone getting special fast-track treatment to which they did not have access. 
Those who learn from history are doomed to watch others repeat it

AZRedhawk44

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,981
Re: Ahh. Amnesty is in the air.
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2010, 04:08:33 PM »
Quote
Under the proposal, illegal immigrants currently in the United States would be eligible for legal status in eight years, as long as they learned English, had not committed a crime and paid their taxes.

Illegals currently in the US would still be illegal for 8 years... hmm....  I'm confused.

How do we KNOW they are in the country today, 8 years from now?  They would have to remain illegal (since they're not legal for another 8 years), but somehow prove they're here now.  That's a blatant declaration that we won't be enforcing anything for at least 8 more years.

Quote
But the only Republican who had been negotiating with Democrats on the issue, Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.), criticized the proposal, saying "it is our belief that Congress should focus on border security first," in a joint statement with Sen. Jon Kyl (R-Ariz.), the No. 2 Republican in the Senate.

Looking forward to Senator Kyl becoming the No. 1 Republican in the Senate.

[/Adios McCain bash]
 ;)
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

I reject your authoritah!

longeyes

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,405
Re: Ahh. Amnesty is in the air.
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2010, 05:21:58 PM »
The majority of the American people are never going to go for amnesty in any form.  The Dems can cry racism all they want, but the underlying realities of this issue have yet to really be brought out, and if the Dems try to ram this one through in the dead of night there will for sure be widespread social upheaval of any kind we haven't seen in America in 150 years.  The reason is that an amnesty would de facto latinize America, turn America into Latin America, and subvert the "non-Latin" values on which this nation was established by the Framers (yes, those are Northwestern European).  We haven't even begun to really discuss, open and honestly, the cultural issues at stake here, but if the Dems push amnesty we will all be doing that in every home, coffee shop, and bar in America, and, no doubt, loudly.  The Dems do not want to discuss the fine print either, which with a policy of "family reunification" would effectively empty out Central America and probably a good chunk of South American and the Third World elsewhere.  Are today's American citizens really going to okay 100 million new Americans fighting for their jobs and demanding social welfare?  I don't think so.  I've said before that we are inching forward toward a national "divorce;" if anything can ignite a clamor for that it would be any kind of give-away amnesty deal.
"Domari nolo."

Thug: What you lookin' at old man?
Walt Kowalski: Ever notice how you come across somebody once in a while you shouldn't have messed with? That's me.

Molon Labe.

MechAg94

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 33,812
Re: Ahh. Amnesty is in the air.
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2010, 06:29:59 PM »
It's looking like immigration is going to be the major wedge issue this election cycle. 

I think that the Democrats are going to be surprised in some of their elections.  Just because some one is hispanic, does not mean that they are going to support amnesty. There are lots of naturalized citizens who would be very resentful of anyone getting special fast-track treatment to which they did not have access. 
I know one Venezuelan lady who is married to a friend.  As far as I know, they are still having to deal with the INS folks and get lawyers to help with forms even now after two kids.  In their opinion, if they have to fight through that mess, no one else should skate through.
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

Balog

  • Unrepentant race traitor
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 17,774
  • What if we tried more?
Re: Ahh. Amnesty is in the air.
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2010, 07:01:45 PM »
I hope they push for this, and push hard. Gotta keep folks pissed until the voting booths open. I find it difficult to believe the liberals don't see that this is a huge bomb waiting to sink the good ship Democrat, but then I'm often surprised at their stupidity.
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

mtnbkr

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 15,388
Re: Ahh. Amnesty is in the air.
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2010, 07:05:33 PM »
I know one Venezuelan lady who is married to a friend.  As far as I know, they are still having to deal with the INS folks and get lawyers to help with forms even now after two kids.  In their opinion, if they have to fight through that mess, no one else should skate through.

A friend of mine married a British lady several years ago.  They had a bear of a time getting her kids here legally.  Before her oldest boy could be granted permanent residency status (or whatever it's called), he turned 18 and had to start all over again.  He was 15 or 16 when he started.

Chris

longeyes

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,405
Re: Ahh. Amnesty is in the air.
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2010, 08:32:44 PM »
Quote
I hope they push for this, and push hard. Gotta keep folks pissed until the voting booths open. I find it difficult to believe the liberals don't see that this is a huge bomb waiting to sink the good ship Democrat, but then I'm often surprised at their stupidity.

You're predicating that on politics as usual, the normal electoral process, and the dissemination of truth.  I think both are under siege.  The Left has embraced Chaos and will not scruple to use any means of coercion to get to their goal.
"Domari nolo."

Thug: What you lookin' at old man?
Walt Kowalski: Ever notice how you come across somebody once in a while you shouldn't have messed with? That's me.

Molon Labe.

sanglant

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,475
Re: Ahh. Amnesty is in the air.
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2010, 10:21:16 PM »
it's kaos. =( and since max is dead NOTHING can stop them. [tinfoil]

HankB

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 16,668
Re: Ahh. Amnesty is in the air.
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2010, 03:38:43 PM »
I've noticed that some of the local politicians who have dissed Arizona's "get tough on illegals" policy also have opposed Voter ID laws.

Hmmmm . . .
Trump won in 2016. Democrats haven't been so offended since Republicans came along and freed their slaves.
Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it. - Mark Twain
Government is a broker in pillage, and every election is a sort of advance auction in stolen goods. - H.L. Mencken
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. - Mark Twain

red headed stranger

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,263
Re: Ahh. Amnesty is in the air.
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2010, 05:55:30 PM »
I've noticed that some of the local politicians who have dissed Arizona's "get tough on illegals" policy also have opposed Voter ID laws.

Hmmmm . . .

Many of the opponents are also the same people who criticized Arizona's law that sanctions employers who knowingly employ illegal aliens. 
Those who learn from history are doomed to watch others repeat it

MicroBalrog

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,505
Re: Ahh. Amnesty is in the air.
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2010, 11:59:53 PM »
Does this bill have any provisions reforming the LEGAL immigration process?
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

longeyes

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,405
Re: Ahh. Amnesty is in the air.
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2010, 12:02:58 AM »
Immigration has become the religion of the American Left.  But immigration without assimilation, without a clear understanding of American identity, is not only meaningless, it's toxic.  This is a nation, not a job fair.
"Domari nolo."

Thug: What you lookin' at old man?
Walt Kowalski: Ever notice how you come across somebody once in a while you shouldn't have messed with? That's me.

Molon Labe.

red headed stranger

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,263
Re: Ahh. Amnesty is in the air.
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2010, 12:31:10 AM »
Does this bill have any provisions reforming the LEGAL immigration process?

It doesn't, but there is not much to be done at the state level to fix that mess. 
Those who learn from history are doomed to watch others repeat it

MicroBalrog

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,505
Re: Ahh. Amnesty is in the air.
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2010, 04:25:52 AM »
It doesn't, but there is not much to be done at the state level to fix that mess. 

Weren't we talking about the Senate plan to 'fix' immigration? [and I stretch the term 'fix' to the limit here]
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

red headed stranger

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,263
Re: Ahh. Amnesty is in the air.
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2010, 09:19:43 AM »
Weren't we talking about the Senate plan to 'fix' immigration? [and I stretch the term 'fix' to the limit here]

Sorry.  I had just been commenting in a thread about the AZ SB1070.   :facepalm:

As far as this proposal by Democratic senators is concerned, there very little that will change concerning the process of naturalization. 

In this summary,

http://www.aila.org/content/default.aspx?docid=31857  (PDF) 

the AILA (American Immigration Lawyers Association) cites these "reforms" in the bill:


Quote
The proposal creates a new provisional H-2C visa for non-seasonal, non-agricultural workers which isvalid for 3 years and is renewable once. The H-2C visa provides for dual intent and if the holder can meetcertain requirements, he/she can earn LPR status. After one year, the H-2C shall have portability, andthe annual cap shall be adjusted each year based on unemployment and economic indicators. If the capis hit, an employer can still get an H-2C worker if the employer can show need for the worker and payhigher wage and fees. No H-2C can be hired until efforts to recruit U.S. workers have been made. Anyqualified U.S. worker displaced by or passed over for an H-2C will have redress.

And, a lot of little provisions here.  Some of them are kind of odd:

Quote
The proposal includes the following miscellaneous reform.:
 
• Establishes a new program to provide visas to promote property ownership by foreignnationals.
• Improves and makes permanent the R-1 religious worker visa.
• Makes permanent Conrad 30 J-1 visa program
• Makes H-1Bs and J-1 visas for foreign doctors more easily obtainable. Foreign doctorswill also be given an easier path to LPR status.
• Creates an E-3 visa for Irish nationals like the program in Australia.
• Enables fashion models to enter on O and P visas rather than the H-1B visa.
• Creates new paths for nurses and physical therapists to enter the United States.
• Makes technical fixes to the EB-5 visa program.
• Establishes a Department of Justice grant program for state courts to assist persons withlimited English proficiency in state court proceedings.
• Creates a nationwide integration program.
• Creates commissions to review the U.S. government’s past treatment of variousEuropean Americans and its treatment of Jewish refugees, including the government’srefusal to grant entry to those fleeing genocide or persecution during WWII.

Those who learn from history are doomed to watch others repeat it

longeyes

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,405
Re: Ahh. Amnesty is in the air.
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2010, 11:58:31 AM »
Let the American people decide.  Let's see how much of the "reform" bill can pass daylight scrutiny.  All of this is to serve the interests of various groups, not the national interest.

We have millions unemployed and millions on welfare, but we are preserving high imported labor quotas.  Why?
"Domari nolo."

Thug: What you lookin' at old man?
Walt Kowalski: Ever notice how you come across somebody once in a while you shouldn't have messed with? That's me.

Molon Labe.

coppertales

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 947
Re: Ahh. Amnesty is in the air.
« Reply #17 on: May 07, 2010, 04:12:56 PM »
The reason the dims are so upset with the AZ bill is that it is written in plain language and only 4 pages long.  They can't hide stuff in it to suit their agenda.....chris3

AZRedhawk44

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,981
Re: Ahh. Amnesty is in the air.
« Reply #18 on: May 07, 2010, 04:34:03 PM »
The reason the dims are so upset with the AZ bill is that it is written in plain language and only 4 pages long.  They can't hide stuff in it to suit their agenda.....chris3

No... it's 17 pages long.

http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf

And I've heard that parts of it have since been trimmed, and it's only 16 pages long now.  Not sure about that.  But the linked PDF above is 17 pages.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

I reject your authoritah!

Headless Thompson Gunner

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8,517
Re: Ahh. Amnesty is in the air.
« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2010, 07:50:10 PM »
If you reformatted the AZ bill into normal pages of text, I bet it'd be a lot shorter.