Steve Fossett's ID and Cash Found Outside Mammoth Lakes, CA

[grampster]

Those documents and money probably at one time, were wrapped up
in bear scat.

[yesitsloaded]

Will be interesting to hear if they find a body amongst the wreckage.
And REALLY interesting if they don't.

They didn't find a body.

[Fly320s]

So the moral of the story is file a flight plan and stick to it?

Yes.  Even if its a VFR flight plan.  Make sure someone knows where to look for your corpse.  I disagree with Fly320's a bit here.  Because the FAA didn't even have a vauge clue about Fossetts plans, they didn't really know where to look. 

Jamis is correct on that point.  If you want the opportunity for someone to search for you, then yes, by all means file and fly a VFR flight plan.  Just be aware that a VFR flight plan is not a safety net.  The search response isn't quick enough or accurate enough to help in a dire situation.

[Hawkmoon]

So the moral of the story is file a flight plan and stick to it?

No.  VFR flight plans are voluntary.  Carry a good ELT, and prepare to get yourself out of your own mess.  Even then, you may be there for a day or two.

A VFR flight plan provides little protection in the event of a crash.  An aircraft on an active VFR flight plane isn't considered missing until 4 or more hours after the planned ETA.  Then a search is started which will consist of a phone call to the destination airport, if possible, to determine if the plane is actually there.  Slowly, the search will expand.  The VFR flight plan may help, but not until many hours after the crash. 

If a pilot wants to be watched-over, then flying IFR is the way to go.  Under IFR, a plane is constantly tracked and controlled.

I don't know about any other pilots, but I'd rather fly VFR so I don't have to deal with all of the IFR and ATC rules.  Much less hassle.

While all of the above is true, I think it's a truism that if you are an internationally famous multi-millionaire aviator the search will be a tad more thorough than if your name is John Doe and you're flying a 50-year old Piper Cub.

[Boomhauer]

Wreckage found:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081002/ap_on_re_us/fossett_search

Sheriff: Search teams find Fossett wreckage

By TRACIE CONE and JULIANA BARBASSA, Associated Press Writers 2 minutes ago

MAMMOTH LAKES, Calif. - Searchers found the wreckage of Steve Fossett's airplane in California's rugged Sierra Nevada just over a year after the millionaire adventurer vanished on a solo flight, and the craft appears to have hit the mountainside head-on, authorities said Thursday.

Crews conducting an aerial search late Wednesday spotted what turned out to be the wreckage in the Inyo National Forest near the town of Mammoth Lakes, Sheriff John Anderson said. They confirmed around 11 p.m. that the tail number found matched Fossett's single-engine Bellanca plane, he said.

Anderson said no human remains were found in the wreckage.

"It's quite often if you don't find remains within a few days, because of animals, you'll find nothing at all," Anderson said.

Teams led by the sheriff's department would continue the search for remains Thursday, while the National Transportation Safety Board was en route to probe the cause of the crash, he said.

Most of the plane's fuselage disintegrated on impact, and the engine was found several hundred feet away, Anderson said.

Searchers began combing the rugged terrain on Wednesday after a hiker found identification documents belonging to Fossett earlier in the week. The wreckage was found about a quarter-mile from where hiker Preston Morrow made his discovery Monday.

The IDs provided the first possible clue about Fossett's whereabouts since he disappeared Sept. 3, 2007, after taking off from a Nevada ranch owned by hotel magnate Barron Hilton.

"I remember the day he crashed, there were large thunderheads over the peaks around us," Mono County Undersheriff Ralph Obenberger said, gesturing to the mountains flanking Mammoth Lakes.

Aviators had previously flown over Mammoth Lakes, about 90 miles south of the ranch, in the search for Fossett, but it had not been considered a likely place to find the plane.

The most intense searching was concentrated north of the town, given what searchers knew about sightings of Fossett's plane, his plans for when he had intended to return and the amount of fuel he had in the plane.

A judge declared Fossett legally dead in February following a search for the famed aviator that covered 20,000 square miles.

[ctdonath]

Coordinates? Google might have an updated photo, considering it's been over a year.

[Jamisjockey]

So the moral of the story is file a flight plan and stick to it?

No.  VFR flight plans are voluntary.  Carry a good ELT, and prepare to get yourself out of your own mess.  Even then, you may be there for a day or two.

A VFR flight plan provides little protection in the event of a crash.  An aircraft on an active VFR flight plane isn't considered missing until 4 or more hours after the planned ETA.  Then a search is started which will consist of a phone call to the destination airport, if possible, to determine if the plane is actually there.  Slowly, the search will expand.  The VFR flight plan may help, but not until many hours after the crash. 

If a pilot wants to be watched-over, then flying IFR is the way to go.  Under IFR, a plane is constantly tracked and controlled.

I don't know about any other pilots, but I'd rather fly VFR so I don't have to deal with all of the IFR and ATC rules.  Much less hassle.

While all of the above is true, I think it's a truism that if you are an internationally famous multi-millionaire aviator the search will be a tad more thorough than if your name is John Doe and you're flying a 50-year old Piper Cub.

Not true.  It will be televised, and after the government quits your very rich widow might spend some time looking for you...thats the only difference.  I've seen some big searches for small aircraft before.

[Leatherneck]

Another cloud-with-a-rock claims an old, bold pilot.

TC

[Northwoods]

CNN reporting "some human remains" found at the crash site.

[280plus]

Stuffed clouds?

I just liken the flight plan idea to telling someone where you're going and what time you'll be back on a lone foray out into the wilderness.

[Ben]

I saw a news story this morning with a quote along the lines of, "he smacked into a mountain". Sounds like Leatherneck nailed it on the "old, bold pilot". All signs point to "unintentional IFR".

[Gewehr98]

As somebody who had to pull up 500ft to clear a mountain ridge by 300ft one night in Hokkaido, this is always poignant:

[RadioFreeSeaLab]

Seems like the pilot to non-pilot ratio on this forum is out of whack.  Just how many of you people are pilots?

[Ben]

What Dasmi, you're not??? Because APS is a "pilots only" board -- guess you slipped through the cracks. Where's that banstick?? 

We do seem to have a high proportion of people that do fly, or have flown, whether pilots or crew, work or hobby. I chalk it up to the general personality and demeanor of most of the people here. We all seem to be into some kind of technical occupation / hobby / whatever that also requires a lot of independent thought.

[RadioFreeSeaLab]

Me?  I hate flying.  But I think I hate flying cause they don't let me fly the plane.  If I was flying it, I don't think I'd have such a hatred and fear of the whole thing.

[seeker_two]

Seems like the pilot to non-pilot ratio on this forum is out of whack.  Just how many of you people are pilots?

I'm not a pilot; but, based on my limited knowledge, I believe the evidence shows that Steve Fossett died from events related to his plane crashing.....how am I doing so far, dasmi?....

[Firethorn]

I saw a news story this morning with a quote along the lines of, "he smacked into a mountain". Sounds like Leatherneck nailed it on the "old, bold pilot". All signs point to "unintentional IFR".

Is it possible that he had a medical condition occur that caused him to go off course and crash?  Something like a stroke, or even a heart attack?

[Northwoods]

I saw a news story this morning with a quote along the lines of, "he smacked into a mountain". Sounds like Leatherneck nailed it on the "old, bold pilot". All signs point to "unintentional IFR".

Is it possible that he had a medical condition occur that caused him to go off course and crash?  Something like a stroke, or even a heart attack?

Possible, yes.  Likely?  We'll never know.

Sounds like it was most likely a case of CFIT - Flying in a canyon, gets cloudy enough that he can't see (unintentional IFR), forgets the mountains are as close as they are and just turned into the terrain or didn't pull up when reaching the end of the canyon.  The other likely possibility was that he got caught in a downdraft and couldn't pull out before being slammed in the mountain side. 

[Brad Johnson]

I understand he was heavily in debt.  There's also the possibility that he figured it as a way out, and as a way to give his detractors and critics the ultimate finger.  Stick the nose in the ground at high speed and no one is the wiser.  No one can prove a thing, one way or another.  An act of final defiance by proving to everyone that he is the ultimate determiner of his destiny, that he "pulled one over" on the world.

Very driven people like him have a tendency to do that when they feel they have completely lost control.

Brad

[Northwoods]

There's also the possibility that, being heavily in debt, he figured it as a way out.  Stick the nose in the ground at high speed and no one is the wiser.  No one can prove a thing, one way or another.  An act of final defiance by showing the he is the ultimate determiner of his destiny.

Very driven people like him have a tendency to do that when they feel they have completely lost control.

Brad

He'd made billions.  Anyone who can do that once can do it again.  He also had enough billionaire friends that he didn't have to do something like suicide to get out of it.  If it was a suicide it would really only make sense if he'd found out he was terminally ill and would wind up dying a slow, painful, horrible, undignified death and chose to go out on his own terms instead.  Everything though pointed to him still having a lot to live for, a lot more to accomplish.  Suicide makes the least sense overall to me of anything that could explain his death.

[Brad Johnson]

He'd made billions.  Anyone who can do that once can do it again. 

With a very driven individual it has nothing to do with how much he made, or how much he could make again.  It's all about their perceive ability to maintain control of, well, everything.  They want the world by the balls and don't care anyone else gives a rip.  It's a power thing, pure and simple.

If someone like him felt they no longer had control of their lives they could, very easily in fact, see this as the ultimate way of controlling their fate.  Taking their own life, and doing so in a way that left the whole world confused, would be the ultimate power trip.  Stupid, yes.  But plausible.

Brad

[Jamisjockey]

I'm not a pilot, don't touch the stuff  

I spent about 14 years as an Air Traffic Controller....before the wife realized her calling as a Sugar Mama

5 years USMC ATC, NYL ATCT (Yuma, Arizona, Air Traffic Control Tower)
-3 months at MCB 29 Palms, Tower
-3 1 month at Laguna AAF, Tower
2 years Federal contract ATC, BRO ATCT (Brownsville, Texas)
1.5 years FAA, BPT ATCT/RAC (Beaumont, TX, Tower and Approach Control)
5.5 years FAA, S56 (Salt Lake City TRACON, UT-Terminal Radar Approach Control)

[gunsmith]

I lived in Reno at the time, they were looking "all over" for him and found remains of other really old crash sites (and making some families very happy to solve decades old mysteries)
I always wanted to be a pilot.

[Hawkmoon]

I lived in Reno at the time, they were looking "all over" for him and found remains of other really old crash sites (and making some families very happy to solve decades old mysteries)
I always wanted to be a pilot.

Is there some sort of cause-effect relationship between the two parts of this post? Such as ... you always wanted to be a pilot so people could be out looking for your remains, too?

[Scout26]

I understand he was heavily in debt. 

As someone who lives in Chicago that's the first I heard of that.  Last I heard was that reason Mrs wanted him declared dead was to free up $$$ to pay for continued searches and to pay for her expenses.