Author Topic: APS Pirate Hunting Ship Available  (Read 11847 times)

erictank

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Re: APS Pirate Hunting Ship Available
« Reply #25 on: June 19, 2011, 02:14:09 PM »
Hsv-2 is 45kt max.

Usually, the general rule of thumb is hull speed is 1.34 x (WLL in ft)^0.5. And it takes 2hp/ton to hit this, with speed increasing with the 1/3 power of power/weight after that.  Based on those calcs, a nimitz (280khp, ~95kton) should be able to break 45kts...and 50kts is within the margin of error on the calcs...it's all about waterline length.  Carriers can easily outrun their escorts.

"I can neither confirm nor deny..."  =D

They're fast.  Faster than their "officially stated speed", having been stationed (and present) on board CVN-71 for commissioning+10-years trials, but that will surprise precisely no one, I expect.  

[Forrest Gump]"And that's all I have to say about that.[/Forrest Gump]

The speed run was cool - I was on throttles for that, running one of the main engines and riding the torque limit - but the max speed turns which I was off-watch for were cooler.  And from KBGSquirrel's report, TR could out-turn a Wasp (at least proportionately to ship length).  At least when we were stopped and doing differential turns - you were stopped, right, KGB?  If HSV-2 could leave Kennedy in the dust like you say, though, she could likely handily outpace TR - ISTR hearing the nuke carriers were faster than the conventionals, but not by that much, only a couple or 3 knots.

dogmush

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Re: APS Pirate Hunting Ship Available
« Reply #26 on: June 19, 2011, 02:32:29 PM »
Were you manning the Lee Helm?

Sadly, no.  I was one of a set of WO's and NCO's getting a show-off tour in the Persian Gulf. It was back when the Army was trying to decide if our watercraft mission supported buying the TSV's. (Or more properly how many we could justify Congress buying for us.)  For that ride I was not crew but was supposed to be taking notes to report on the feasibility of the platform. (almost none for our mission) I was however standing on the bridge and could see that the throttles were full forward.  We gave her plenty of time to finish accelerating in pretty calm seas (2'-4').  She was about half full cargo and passenger-wise.

My normal stomping grounds are LCM's and LCU's although I have played a little on our LSV's.

On the CVN's I've tracked two different carriers at sea from the ARPA on an LCU-2000.  (USAV Runnymeade, LCU-2001 in 2003, and USAV New Orleans, LCU 2031 in 2009)  Both times when the CVN decided to leave, it quickly exceeded the TSV's speed, although I confess I don't know if they were at flank speed or still had some in reserve.

Fly320s

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Re: APS Pirate Hunting Ship Available
« Reply #27 on: June 19, 2011, 05:13:22 PM »
Stealth ship for pirates?  Are pirates using radar now?

As for fast boats, how fast are subs?
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birdman

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Re: APS Pirate Hunting Ship Available
« Reply #28 on: June 19, 2011, 05:36:14 PM »
Stealth ship for pirates?  Are pirates using radar now?

As for fast boats, how fast are subs?

Fast.  ;)
Some are faster than others.
All are not as fast as modern torpedoes, which are very fast.
What is more important is how fast they go vs. How much noise they make.

But anyway, >30kts is the classic navy statement for SSN's, the fastest is probably an Alfa (40+), but you could theoretically make a super cavitating sub (like a shkval torpedo) and hit 100-200kts.  Modern ASW/ASUW torps can hit 60+

dogmush

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Re: APS Pirate Hunting Ship Available
« Reply #29 on: June 19, 2011, 07:46:27 PM »
 I thought the Akula's were faster then the Alfa's?

Nvmnd, I was mistaken.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2011, 07:51:15 PM by dogmush »

Bogie

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Re: APS Pirate Hunting Ship Available
« Reply #30 on: June 19, 2011, 08:34:29 PM »
Maybe a yacht would be the best choice. Lots of young and nubile on the top decks, ready and waiting to deploy to repel boarders...
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Ben

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Re: APS Pirate Hunting Ship Available
« Reply #31 on: June 19, 2011, 08:39:43 PM »
Stealth ship for pirates?  Are pirates using radar now?

Hey, I'm forward thinking. :P

At some point we'll tire of or eliminate the pirates and we'll want to hunt some other scoundrels, who may in fact have radar.  =D
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

kgbsquirrel

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Re: APS Pirate Hunting Ship Available
« Reply #32 on: June 20, 2011, 04:39:54 AM »
At least when we were stopped and doing differential turns - you were stopped, right, KGB?  

Forward speed of approximately 5-8 knots, rudder full left, port engine back two thirds, starboard engine ahead full, indicate 9 9 9 revolutions for maneuvering combinations. The Con had us spinning circles around a killer tomato for the shooting satisfaction of the crew serves and the amusement of civilians on board for a tiger cruise. We were sliding sideways quite a bit, but that was the indicated forward speed. The Wasp's make an odd up and down bouncing motion as they slide sideways through the water. Probably could have turned it a bit tighter if we were willing to damage the screw shafts and rudders a bit (hard rudder, back full port, ahead flank starboard).


The wasp class is a good group of ships, (thread digression), what did you like/dislike about them? (I do consulting from time to time for the navy on advanced concepts and am always looking for info from those who served on various ships)

They should have been designed for a much higher top speed for their intended purpose (quick interdiction of marine forces in unwelcome locales), not to mention that we were generally running without so much as an FFG for escort. A slightly longer hull (say 100'), a nuclear plant, and improved screws would make these ships far more versatile than they currently are.

I would also suggest as a general statement, an improvement in the reloading evolution for the RAM and Sea-Sparrow launchers. The Ram launchers in particular required a major action by a significant number of sailors to get reloaded, including setting up complex scaffolding for the purpose. An idea perhaps for the Sea-Sparrows could be a reloading system similar to the old bandit launchers with the octal box launcher going vertical and having the missiles driven upwards into the launch tubes in quick order.

The hurricane bow also caused problems for crew served weapons. None of the heavy emplacements are able to cover the 11 to 1 o'clock positions so we have to improvise by placing GPMG's (which are more or less just laid in place) in the forecastle bow line hatches. Having pintle mounts affixed in those locations for heavier armament such as Mk-44's would go a long way to improving the forward close in defenses, better yet though would be mounts located at the port and starboard bow corners of the 01 level for .50's where portions of the hurricane bow could be opened up to allow them to train forward and to the sides and then be closed up again for foul weather.

A couple sets of big-eyes mounted on the fantail would greatly help the aft look outs, as it is, only the forward lookout has a set (one on each side of the super structure).

The mating blocks on the stern gate for conducting operations with LCU's (especially Army LCU's which have a forward structure that prevents them from actually entering the welldeck) need to be designed so the ramp of the mating LCU can not slip up and over them. When in Souda Bay we had one such Army LCU docked to the sterngate when a rogue wave lifted it up off those blocks and drove it forward into the well deck. The forward structure of the LCU struck the fantail causing damage to both.

The approach signal light system for LCAC's that hangs from the fantail needs to be repositioned further underneath the fantail. It's current position puts it in conflict with the stern mooring lines. Ours was damaged both by the mooring lines taking tension and pressing against it's frame, and also mooring lines snagging on it's corners and twisting it's frame as the lines were taken to power on the capstans.

We never used the mono-rail cargo trams in the welldeck and upper vehicle stowage during the two years (and one deployment) I was on board for. I'm sure they have a purpose, I'm just not sure what it is other than to take up valuable overhead space. :P

There should be a weatherproof mounting on the RHIB and LCPL davits for trickle chargers to keep the batteries topped off. The Enginemen I spoke with complained often about drained down starter batteries on the small boats when they would go long periods without use. This required them (with our current setup) to go through the maintenance evolution of pulling out the batteries and hauling them down to their shop for recharging.

The upper vehicle stowage loading door vestibule needs it's own overboard discharge with one way butterfly valve. We had wave action swamp the port one when the outer door was left ajar to assist with ventilation during LCAC ops. We had to manually arrange a siphon hose to drain most of the water and then complete the dewatering with swabs and buckets.


*twiddle* I'm sure I can think of more stuff. Let me know if you're interested.

Oh, something really liked: The well-equipped on-board bakery. Having such things as oven-fresh glazed rolls with your dinner or loaves of bread not ever older than 2 days was absolutely awesome. Also having a full salad bar available on the mess deck was great, especially if you didn't have time, or didn't want to wait in the chow line, or just wanted something green and fresh for a change.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2011, 04:46:08 AM by kgbsquirrel »

RoadKingLarry

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Re: APS Pirate Hunting Ship Available
« Reply #33 on: June 20, 2011, 06:56:27 AM »
Stealth ship for pirates?  Are pirates using radar now?

As for fast boats, how fast are subs?

With subs it's not so much about the fast but about the quiet.
The faster you go the more noise you make.
The more noise you make the easier you are to detect.
The easier you are to detect the easier you are to kill.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

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KD5NRH

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Re: APS Pirate Hunting Ship Available
« Reply #34 on: June 20, 2011, 07:04:32 AM »
Quote
The plan was to salvage the ship by getting someone to buy it and put it on display,
Quote
The dry dock -- something else the Navy is also trying to give away -- keeps the ship safely hidden from spy satellites and from public view.

Yup, it's the government all right.

KD5NRH

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Re: APS Pirate Hunting Ship Available
« Reply #35 on: June 20, 2011, 07:08:47 AM »
The speed run was cool - I was on throttles for that, running one of the main engines and riding the torque limit - but the max speed turns which I was off-watch for were cooler.

I'm guessing one doesn't want to be on the toilet when this is going on:

RoadKingLarry

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If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

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MikeB

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Re: APS Pirate Hunting Ship Available
« Reply #37 on: June 20, 2011, 08:23:11 AM »
I would think something more like the Oregon from various Clive Cussler books would be more fitting for APS.

Fly320s

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Re: APS Pirate Hunting Ship Available
« Reply #38 on: June 20, 2011, 10:08:59 AM »
With subs it's not so much about the fast but about the quiet.
The faster you go the more noise you make.
The more noise you make the easier you are to detect.
The easier you are to detect the easier you are to kill.

Yes, but how fast can they go?  Flank speed, no concern about noise, just pedal-to-the-metal fast.
Islamic sex dolls.  Do they blow themselves up?

RoadKingLarry

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Re: APS Pirate Hunting Ship Available
« Reply #39 on: June 20, 2011, 10:34:45 AM »
I have personally exceeded 30kts on a Sturgeon class fast attack boat which was a bit faster than "published" capabilities, the style of screw has a big effect on top speed. That class was designed in the '60s and was powered by an S5W reactor. Newer designs such as the Seawolf probably benefited from advancements in technology but I don't have any direct experience with them.
But like I said, with subs stealth outweighs speed every single day.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

birdman

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Re: APS Pirate Hunting Ship Available
« Reply #40 on: June 20, 2011, 12:11:55 PM »
Yes, but how fast can they go?  Flank speed, no concern about noise, just pedal-to-the-metal fast.

It's classified.  >30kts.  But other responses were accurate, it depends on the screw (or screw equivalent).

Fly320s

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Re: APS Pirate Hunting Ship Available
« Reply #41 on: June 20, 2011, 12:16:58 PM »
It's classified.  >30kts.  But other responses were accurate, it depends on the screw (or screw equivalent).

Classified?  Then I'll just go ask Wikileaks, they'll know.  :O
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birdman

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Re: APS Pirate Hunting Ship Available
« Reply #42 on: June 20, 2011, 12:28:57 PM »
Classified?  Then I'll just go ask Wikileaks, they'll know.  :O

God, I hope not.

vaskidmark

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Re: APS Pirate Hunting Ship Available
« Reply #43 on: June 21, 2011, 10:48:32 AM »
Peter has the scoop on why we need to stop discussing this and just go start wasting pirates.  http://bayourenaissanceman.blogspot.com/2011/06/problem-with-stamping-out-piracy-its.html 

Seems to cover all the points necessary.  Screw getting a Letter of Marque and Reprisal.  Screw asking a ship's captain if he wants our assistance/intervention or not.  "Damn the torpedoes, Gridley, you may fire because I have in fact just begun to fight."

stay safe.
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AJ Dual

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Re: APS Pirate Hunting Ship Available
« Reply #44 on: June 21, 2011, 11:18:22 AM »
The old WW11 "Q-ships" seems to be the perfect answer to this.

A modern version with drop down fake containers with some Bofors, M2 .50, and a 5" gun would take care of anything the Somali's have.

I promise not to duck.

richyoung

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Re: APS Pirate Hunting Ship Available
« Reply #45 on: June 21, 2011, 12:13:43 PM »
With subs it's not so much about the fast but about the quiet.
The faster you go the more noise you make.
The more noise you make the easier you are to detect.
The easier you are to detect the easier you are to kill.

It has been alleged that some American attack subs had two props - a louder 'speed" prop that made it easier to keep up with carrier battle groups when escorting them, and a quiet "patrol" prop for more normal duties.....
Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't...

RoadKingLarry

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Re: APS Pirate Hunting Ship Available
« Reply #46 on: June 21, 2011, 01:08:57 PM »
I'm almost 20 years out of date on sub design but so far as I know there would be no way to have 2 screws mounted at the same time. While one was in use the other would be a dead drag.
The SSN 21/Seawolf is still a singe shaft single screw set up. The Virginia class looks like maybe something different has been added.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_class_submarine
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

dogmush

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Re: APS Pirate Hunting Ship Available
« Reply #47 on: June 21, 2011, 02:05:16 PM »
I'm almost 20 years out of date on sub design but so far as I know there would be no way to have 2 screws mounted at the same time. While one was in use the other would be a dead drag.
The SSN 21/Seawolf is still a singe shaft single screw set up. The Virginia class looks like maybe something different has been added.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_class_submarine

Catapiller drive? =D

Tallpine

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Re: APS Pirate Hunting Ship Available
« Reply #48 on: June 21, 2011, 02:06:32 PM »
It has been alleged that some American attack subs had two props - a louder 'speed" prop that made it easier to keep up with carrier battle groups when escorting them, and a quiet "patrol" prop for more normal duties.....

The order is: engage the silent drive   >:D
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dogmush

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Re: APS Pirate Hunting Ship Available
« Reply #49 on: June 21, 2011, 02:08:55 PM »
We will lay off their largest city, and listen to their rock and roll... while we conduct missile drills.

[/bad russian accent]