Racist Halloween Costume

[Ben]

Not. At least according to Ben. I have no idea why this girl apologized. I'm pretty sure the idea of the "dark soul" or "black soul" has been in literature, not only Western, but global, for hundreds if not thousands of years. People need to get a life.

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2017/10/23/lili-reinhart-apologizes-for-racially-insensitive-halloween-tweet.html

[zxcvbob]

People are way too quick to apologize for stuff like this.  A better response is GFY (not "good for you", the other one)

[Hawkmoon]

Another example of people seeking out opportunities to claim hurtful language, where none exists.

I agree, she should not have apologized. She could have appropriately used the word "sorry," though -- as in "I'm genuinely sorry so many of you are that terminally stupid."

[Perd Hapley]

Not. At least according to Ben. I have no idea why this girl apologized. I'm pretty sure the idea of the "dark soul" or "black soul" has been in literature, not only Western, but global, for hundreds if not thousands of years. People need to get a life.

As the article suggests, it's the "blackface" interpretation of the costume that's been deemed offensive. And, well, duh.

[Fly320s]

As the article suggests, it's the "blackface" interpretation of the costume that's been deemed offensive. And, well, duh.

Dark souls can only have white faces?  Death must have a white face?  The devil can only be white?   

Well, obviously the last one is correct. 

[Hawkmoon]

I finally found what I think is (was) the photo. To equate this with "blackface" is a REEEEEAAAAL stretch:



Especially when you look at Lili's history of Halloween costumes

[MechAg94]

Getting upset about this says more about the person getting upset than it does about anyone else. 

[Perd Hapley]

I finally found what I think is (was) the photo. To equate this with "blackface" is a REEEEEAAAAL stretch:

We are talking about a white girl painting her face black, yes? That's a stretch? 

[Fly320s]

We are talking about a white girl painting her face black, yes? That's a stretch? 

Yes it is a stretch.  Painting one's face black is not the same as doing a blackface impersonation.  This girl painted her face black as part of her "dark soul" Halloween costume.  That costume has nothing to do with black people. 

[Ben]

Yes it is a stretch.  Painting one's face black is not the same as doing a blackface impersonation.  This girl painted her face black as part of her "dark soul" Halloween costume.  That costume has nothing to do with black people. 

Yes, this is where I am coming from. In a costume, I'm wondering what better way there would be to express the idea. Does she need to carry a sign that says, "black soul inside"?

It's seems pretty clear that for anyone not looking for a fight, that the makeup was absolutely not designed to mimic a black person. As I said in the OP, there is literature throughout history describing the dark soul or a dark evil, and depictions are almost always a dark being. Not a black person originating from Africa, but a dark being, usually looking like some form of the devil or a demon.I don't ever recall any that I have seen having negroid features.

[Perd Hapley]

Of course it's not the same thing as the old blackface minstrel show act. That still doesn't mean you should be surprised that you offend people, if you're white, and you paint your face black. If you want to do it, go ahead and do it, though.

[Ben]

That still doesn't mean you should be surprised that you offend people, if you're white, and you paint your face black. If you want to do it, go ahead and do it, though.

I think that's a slightly different argument. More in line with what's apparently going on with this current flap of little white girls not being allowed to dress up as Disney's Moana for Halloween.

https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2017/10/23/cosmopolitan-tries-to-put-the-kibosh-on-white-girls-dressing-like-disneys-moana/

[makattak]

I think that's a slightly different argument. More in line with what's apparently going on with this current flap of little white girls not being allowed to dress up as Disney's Moana for Halloween.

https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2017/10/23/cosmopolitan-tries-to-put-the-kibosh-on-white-girls-dressing-like-disneys-moana/

One thing I notice (that wasn't in the twitter reactions) is that the same people who claimed that Black (Red, Yellow, Green) children cannot connect with a "hero" (or princess) of different race are now screaming to the skies about White children connecting with a "hero" (or princess) of a different race.

Faced with a clear rebuke of their deepest held beliefs... they ignore that rebuke and double down on oppression.

(Edited because Ben posted the article while I was typing.

[makattak]

Of course it's not the same thing as the old blackface minstrel show act. That still doesn't mean you should be surprised that you offend people, if you're white, and you paint your face black. If you want to do it, go ahead and do it, though.

What if I paint my face yellow? Is that racist?

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Racist Minion:

[Mannlicher]

it would appear that everyone in America is aggrieved these days.

[Hawkmoon]

I think that's a slightly different argument. More in line with what's apparently going on with this current flap of little white girls not being allowed to dress up as Disney's Moana for Halloween.

https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2017/10/23/cosmopolitan-tries-to-put-the-kibosh-on-white-girls-dressing-like-disneys-moana/

But it's perfectly okay for black people and Hispanics to dress up as OEWM (Olde European White Men) on Broadway.

Double standard much? But that's what we expect from the liberals and SJWs, so we shouldn't be surprised.

[Perd Hapley]

But it's perfectly okay for black people and Hispanics to dress up as OEWM (Olde European White Men) on Broadway.

Double standard much? But that's what we expect from the liberals and SJWs, so we shouldn't be surprised.

   Excellent point. Only white people can be racist. 

[just Warren]

I'd paint my face red, white, and blue for Halloween but I don't want there to be even the slightest chance of being mistaken for a Frenchman.

[freakazoid]

Of course it's not the same thing as the old blackface minstrel show act. That still doesn't mean you should be surprised that you offend people, if you're white, and you paint your face black. If you want to do it, go ahead and do it, though.

You SHOULD be surprised, except we've gotten to the point that any little thing can be offensive. And she didn't just paint her face black, she did stuff with her hands too, and also her whole custom and hair style.
And that's also ignoring that actual blackface isn't racist to begin with.

It's seems pretty clear that for anyone not looking for a fight, that the makeup was absolutely not designed to mimic a black person. As I said in the OP, there is literature throughout history describing the dark soul or a dark evil, and depictions are almost always a dark being. Not a black person originating from Africa, but a dark being, usually looking like some form of the devil or a demon.I don't ever recall any that I have seen having negroid features.

The Black Man is also a witches thing to describe the devil when signing over their soul.

[Perd Hapley]

You SHOULD be surprised, except we've gotten to the point that any little thing can be offensive. And she didn't just paint her face black, she did stuff with her hands too, and also her whole custom and hair style.

I've already stipulated that it's not exactly like "blackface." That's no reason to pretend this is like a banana peel in a tree. Sometimes, in the real world, innocent things offend people. Sometimes you quit doing that thing, just to be considerate. How terrible.

And that's also ignoring that actual blackface isn't racist to begin with.

I don't know whether or not that's true, but just for the sake of argument, I'll go along with it. If true, it's like a lot of allegedly racist terms, such as "Negro" or "Jap." There's nothing racist about those terms, but you know if you use them, folks will be offended. Most adults (I think) still know what "bastard" and "bitch" literally mean, but I know people will be offended if I use their literal meanings in conversation. So I generally do not. There's no percentage in it.

[freakazoid]

I've already stipulated that it's not exactly like "blackface." That's no reason to pretend this is like a banana peel in a tree. Sometimes, in the real world, innocent things offend people. Sometimes you quit doing that thing, just to be considerate. How terrible.


I don't know whether or not that's true, but just for the sake of argument, I'll go along with it. If true, it's like a lot of allegedly racist terms, such as "Negro" or "Jap." There's nothing racist about those terms, but you know if you use them, folks will be offended. Most adults (I think) still know what "bastard" and "bitch" literally mean, but I know people will be offended if I use their literal meanings in conversation. So I generally do not. There's no percentage in it.

I don't think we should be so quick to just give in and stop doing things because some idiot who doesn't know any better, or actually probably does, gets offended.

[Hawkmoon]

Sometimes, in the real world, innocent things offend people. Sometimes you quit doing that thing, just to be considerate. How terrible.

Sometimes an innocent act is truly, unintentionally offensive. In such cases, it is appropriate to quit doing that, and to apologize.

On the other hand, sometimes an innocent act is an innocent act that no rational person would deem offensive, but certain parties who have made their life purpose the finding of "offenses" where no offenses have occurred demand apologies (and, often, more) where there was no actual offense.

We need to be cognizant of the difference, and not surrender to the latter.

[Perd Hapley]

Sometimes an innocent act is truly, unintentionally offensive. In such cases, it is appropriate to quit doing that, and to apologize.

On the other hand, sometimes an innocent act is an innocent act that no rational person would deem offensive, but certain parties who have made their life purpose the finding of "offenses" where no offenses have occurred demand apologies (and, often, more) where there was no actual offense.

We need to be cognizant of the difference, and not surrender to the latter.

I don't think we should be so quick to just give in and stop doing things because some idiot who doesn't know any better, or actually probably does, gets offended.

All points I agree with. I just happen to think that a white person putting black paint on their face is one of those, "well this will obviously be viewed by a lot of people as in poor taste, so let's not" kinds of things.

[Scout26]

I don't know whether or not that's true, but just for the sake of argument, I'll go along with it. If true, it's like a lot of allegedly racist terms, such as "Negro" or "Jap." There's nothing racist about those terms, but you know if you use them, folks will be offended. Most adults (I think) still know what "bastard" and "bitch" literally mean, but I know people will be offended if I use their literal meanings in conversation. So I generally do not. There's no percentage in it.

Why are you being so niggardly with your words ??

[MechAg94]

All points I agree with. I just happen to think that a white person putting black paint on their face is one of those, "well this will obviously be viewed by a lot of people as in poor taste, so let's not" kinds of things.

I don't think this is the same as what you are thinking of though. 

I could care less if a black/brown skinned person wore white face.