Author Topic: Montreal reacts to violent riots with...appeasement.  (Read 4348 times)

Manedwolf

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Montreal reacts to violent riots with...appeasement.
« on: August 11, 2008, 04:00:26 PM »
They burned cars. They looted stores. They shot people. And they threw molotovs at first responders and even EMTs.

Montreal said they sent a message, and wants better relations with that community. "Police are ready to do whatever is needed to bolster their standing in the largely immigrant and working-class community"

Montreal is going to learn a hard lesson. If someone is throwing molotovs at your EMTs, the proper response is three-round bursts at the thrower from an M4, not "understanding".



Quote
Montreal mayor, police chief call for calm after riot

Last Updated: Monday, August 11, 2008 | 7:51 PM ET Comments208Recommend101
CBC News

Montreal Mayor Gérald Tremblay vowed to improve strained relations between police and residents in a northern neighbourhood where rioters attacked authorities, torched cars and looted stores Sunday night following a weekend shooting that left a teenager dead.

"I feel very bad. I feel really upset, and I'm not going to tolerate what has happened on the weekend," Tremblay said, about 12 hours after an overnight riot rocked Montreal North. "Let's make sure it doesn't happen again.

"It's not only a question of saying that we're a secure city, we got to make sure that the perception is there also, and we will not tolerate incidents of violence in Montreal," he added.

Tremblay urged restraint in the wake of the riot that broke out late Sunday night that injured four public security workers, including a police officer who was shot in the leg.

    'We have to work very hard to convince everyone that we're there to help them.' Yvan Delorme, Montreal police chief

Roving packs of people took to the streets, plundered stores, pelted firefighters with beer bottles and set several fires after local residents gathered to protest the death of Freddy Villanueva, 18, who was shot dead by police on Saturday night.

Efforts have been made over the years to build bridges in the community but "maybe we can improve what we're doing," Tremblay said.

His overture echoed Montreal police Chief Yvan Delorme, who called for calm as investigators piece together the events that led to Sunday's riot.

"They want to send society a message, and I received that message," Delorme said at a news conference Monday morning.

Police are ready to do whatever is needed to bolster their standing in the largely immigrant and working-class community, even though Delorme said he's not convinced that the tension is as widespread as reports suggest.

Montreal police Chief Yvan Delorme (left) and Montreal North community leader Pierreson Vaval speak at a news conference on Monday. Montreal police Chief Yvan Delorme (left) and Montreal North community leader Pierreson Vaval speak at a news conference on Monday. (Graham Hugues/Canadian Press)"I don't think it's a general feeling from all the citizens," he said. "But we have to work very hard to convince everyone that we're there to help them, and work with them to protect people."

Community groups say police have a long road ahead to restore confidence among residents who generally don't trust authorities.

Police "have a certain way of doing their [outreach] work, and they think they're doing it well, but it has a negative impact on the community," said Pierreson Vaval, who heads a community youth group in the area.

The shooting and subsequent riot was caused by a "miscommunication problem" that has bred mistrust toward police, Vaval said.

"When you have a force that has by law the right to arrest you and kill you, you have to have confidence. If you don't have confidence, this force is an enemy for people at risk in that community. We have to create another dynamic."

Vaval suggested the weekend events reflect racial tension plaguing Quebec society.

"If we didn't find racial profiling in society, then we wouldn't find it in the police force. If we don't orient them to what we think is the relevant intervention  I think they're seeing today that [people] have a limit, and the limit is this."

MP Denis Coderre admits there is frustration in his riding, but said the neighbourhood is generally peaceful.

"We have to be careful not to mix the fact you have some people who light fires, with the [police] situation on Saturday," he told CBC News. "We have to make sure we keep the communication lines open, and it doesn't degenerate."
Peaceful protest turns sour

Rioters lobbed propane tank fireballs and Molotov cocktails, and fired guns in the neighbourhood after Sunday's peaceful community demonstration turned ugly.

Montreal police officers search for evidence in the debris left by weekend rioting in the city's north end. Montreal police officers search for evidence in the debris left by weekend rioting in the city's north end. (Peter McCabe/Canadian Press)The clash was sparked by protesters who doused and ignited eight parked cars near a fire station. Rioters then lit dozens of garbage-can fires, filling the streets with thick, acrid smoke.

They threw beer bottles at fire trucks and firefighters, while others rushed a nearby commercial strip, and looted more than 20 businesses, including a pawn shop, convenience store and butcher shop.

Men and women of all ages were seen running down the street hugging television sets, cartons of cigarettes and raw meat.

Three-metre-high fireballs from burning propane tanks illuminated the looters as they stormed the streets.

Canadian Press reported seeing an elderly woman carrying a stereo and laughing with her friend as they made their escape. Other looters were seen sipping beer grabbed from a nearby convenience store,

More than 500 officers in full riot gear descended on the district early Monday morning, and eventually restored calm.

Three police officers were injured during the clashes, including the police woman who's recovering from her gunshot wound.

An ambulance technician was injured when a Molotov cocktail hit him in the head.

Police arrested six people for breaking and entering, drug possession and other undisclosed charges.
Neighbourhood on edge

Villanueva's death Saturday night was the catalyst for Sunday's riot.The teen from gunshot wounds in hospital after facing off with police in a park.

Cars and garbage bags were set ablaze on several streets during the rioting. Cars and garbage bags were set ablaze on several streets during the rioting. (CBC)Montreal police say the officers were trying to arrest an individual during a routine intervention in Henri-Bourassa Park when they were surrounded by a group of about 20 young people.

A few people allegedly broke away from the group and rushed the officers, Delorme said.

According to police, one of the officers then opened fire and three people were shot, including Villanueva, 18.

Two other victims, an 18- and a 20-year-old, are in hospital in stable condition.

No police were injured in the incident. Provincial police have taken over the investigation because the shooting involved officers and civilians.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/2008/08/11/mtl-riotreaction0811.html

seeker_two

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Re: Montreal reacts to violent riots with...appeasement.
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2008, 05:24:08 PM »
Well, it worked so well for their mother-country, France.... rolleyes
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Montreal reacts to violent riots with...appeasement.
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2008, 05:30:19 PM »
Strikes me as a reason not to live in a big city, and/or to own an EBR.
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Bigjake

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Re: Montreal reacts to violent riots with...appeasement.
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2008, 05:35:02 PM »
Gee, I wonder what religious/ethnic background the rioters were??  rolleyes

lee n. field

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Re: Montreal reacts to violent riots with...appeasement.
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2008, 05:45:28 PM »
Quote
Gee, I wonder what religious/ethnic background the rioters were??  rolleyes

Was wondering that myself.  They avoid saying.  Islamic?
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Montreal reacts to violent riots with...appeasement.
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2008, 05:55:20 PM »
Gee, I wonder what religious/ethnic background the rioters were??  rolleyes

Completely irrelevant.

Chinese, Italians, Irish have all rioted in various points in American history.

Poor immigrant communities are often crime-ridden.

That said, I of course do not mean this excuses the behavior of the rioters.

Anybody who shoots or throws a brick at a cop or EMT should be immediately shot at.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

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K Frame

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Re: Montreal reacts to violent riots with...appeasement.
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2008, 06:05:23 PM »
At their hearts, the French.

Is anyone surprised that accommodation and surrender are the preferred methods of "negotiation"?
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Montreal reacts to violent riots with...appeasement.
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2008, 06:07:25 PM »
On the other hand this:

Quote
"When you have a force that has by law the right to arrest you and kill you, you have to have confidence. "

is also a faulty understanding of police.

Badge =/= license to kill.
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De Selby

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Re: Montreal reacts to violent riots with...appeasement.
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2008, 07:56:06 PM »
Gee, I wonder what religious/ethnic background the rioters were??  rolleyes

Christian, from some of the more deeply religious Christian parts of the world, of ethnicities that are known for their conspicuous religiosity.
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: Montreal reacts to violent riots with...appeasement.
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2008, 08:29:01 PM »
The guy who was shot (and the supposed "cause" for the drunken saturnalia of theft, assault and debauchery riotous demonstration) was named "Villanuevas."

Perhaps tied to hispanic illegal immigration?  The agricultural migrant cycle moves from California all the way to BC and then back south again on the west coast, so I could assume that it moves into Canada from the midwest also.  Not sure what industry these "poor working class immigrants" worked in though.
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Fjolnirsson

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Re: Montreal reacts to violent riots with...appeasement.
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2008, 08:50:23 PM »
Ya know, I find myself thinking more and more about a life of piracy. I read stories like the one above, and I think of the Danegeld my ancestors laid upon the Angles so many years ago. I think it would work out fairly well, so long as I could prey upon the French and English...and avoid the US Navy...

I just don't understand. I can not wrap my head around the idea of appeasing violent thugs.
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Re: Montreal reacts to violent riots with...appeasement.
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2008, 09:58:08 PM »
Gee, I wonder what religious/ethnic background the rioters were??  rolleyes

Christian, from some of the more deeply religious Christian parts of the world, of ethnicities that are known for their conspicuous religiosity.

Nice guess.  Citation?

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S. Williamson

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Re: Montreal reacts to violent riots with...appeasement.
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2008, 01:34:40 AM »
Funny that the first site that came up on a Google search was this, but shootinstudent's right:
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/americas/2008/08/200881215321508441.html

Quote
Shooting sparks Montreal riot

Officials promised a speedy probe into the shooting incident that sparked the riot [AFP]

Officials in Montreal have vowed to mend ties with some of the Canadian city's ethnic communities after a riot was triggered by the fatal police shooting of a teenager.

An angry crowd of men and women burned vehicles, looted more than a dozen stores and vandalised a fire station late on Sunday as more than 500 riot police moved in to restore calm in the predominantly Haitian neighbourhood.

Ian Lafreniere, a Montreal police spokesman, said one police officer was hospitalised after being shot in the leg during the riot in Montreal North.

Six people were arrested for the fracas, the second time in four months the city has seen a large-scale riot.

The violence erupted 24 hours after the shooting incident on Saturday night involving three unarmed people, including Freddy Albert Villanueva, 18, who died of his wounds.

Yvan Delorme, Montreal's police chief, said he was prepared to do whatever it took to mend the shaky relations between police and the community.

"We're there to listen, to understand what happened [on Sunday] night and to avoid these kinds of situations," he said on Monday.

"We have to feel safe in Montreal."

City police said officers were trying to arrest an individual in a park late on Saturday when they were surrounded by a group of about 20 youths.

Police said one of the officers opened fire when some individuals allegedly broke away and rushed at them.

Speedy probe promised

Montreal city officials have promised a speedy probe into the shooting, which is being investigated by Quebec provincial police.

Gerald Tremblay, the city mayor, said "we have to do better than what we've been doing".

He added that he was planning to meet community leaders to prevent further violence.
 
According to census data a quarter of Montreal North residents are immigrants with almost 15 per cent blacks and 3.5 per cent Latinos.

In April, a downtown celebration after the Montreal Canadiens defeated the Boston Bruins in a National Hockey League playoff game turned violent when people began torching police cars and looting stores.

Police arrested 56 people in connection with that incident.

Other sources confirm:
http://www.salon.com/wires/ap/world/2008/08/11/D92G5ML00_canada_montreal_riot/index.html
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/canada_montreal_riot
http://www.newsweek.com/id/151942

From Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haiti#Religion
Quote
Religion

Virtually the whole population, about 95%, adheres to Christianity, however denominations vary. Roman Catholicism is the official state religion and is by far the dominant faith, in which the majority, approximately 80%, of the population professes.
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El Tejon

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Re: Montreal reacts to violent riots with...appeasement.
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2008, 02:32:13 AM »
Quote
They threw beer bottles at fire trucks and firefighters . . . Other looters were seen sipping beer grabbed from a nearby convenience store,

Ummm, why would you think they were Muslim? rolleyes

Canada has had problems with immigrants from the Caribbean for a very long time.  The Canadian attitude is similar to the Mormon attitude in dealing with Indians, "it is better to feed them than to fight them."

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Re: Montreal reacts to violent riots with...appeasement.
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2008, 03:35:30 AM »
Gee, I wonder what religious/ethnic background the rioters were??  rolleyes

Completely irrelevant.

Chinese, Italians, Irish have all rioted in various points in American history.

Poor immigrant communities are often crime-ridden.

That said, I of course do not mean this excuses the behavior of the rioters.

Anybody who shoots or throws a brick at a cop or EMT should be immediately shot at.
In the last 50 years?
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Montreal reacts to violent riots with...appeasement.
« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2008, 03:37:34 AM »
Gee, I wonder what religious/ethnic background the rioters were??  rolleyes

Completely irrelevant.

Chinese, Italians, Irish have all rioted in various points in American history.

Poor immigrant communities are often crime-ridden.

That said, I of course do not mean this excuses the behavior of the rioters.

Anybody who shoots or throws a brick at a cop or EMT should be immediately shot at.
In the last 50 years?

I'm sorry, what relevance does 'when it happened' have?

Fact:

Rioting is an activity engaged in by semi-illiterate, poor people, often immigrants, throughout the ages.

It is not restricted to Islam - as this thread illustrated already.
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HankB

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Re: Montreal reacts to violent riots with...appeasement.
« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2008, 03:48:54 AM »
A Haitian neighborhood? I thought Haiti's dominant religion was still voodoo?

Anyway, one of my high school buddies went to medical school in the Dominican Republic, right next door to Haiti. The two countries share the island of Hispaniola and have similar demographics, though the Dominican Republic is considered to be the more civilized side, with a considerably higher GDP and per-capita income than Haiti.

We kept in touch while he was there, but it was kind of funny to see how his attitude changed.

Initially, it was "Hank, it's heartbreaking to see how these poor people have to live."

A bit later, he was writing "Hank, it's difficult working with these poor people . . . we really have to try hard to show them how they can help themselves."

At the end of six months, his attitude had become "Hank, these %$#! lazy pigs are the swine of the earth, they won't do %$#@  for themselves and these arrogant bas$#@ds think the world owes them a %$#*ing living! Lousy, stinking, thieving, crooked pieces of . . . "  It went down from there. And his correspondence became increasingly laced with racial epithets (including some new ones!) that are inappropriate for armed polite society.

But anyway, though the rioters' demographic isn't Moslem (Moslems probably haven't reached critical mass yet) it wasn't the Chinese, Italian, or Irish, either.

And yes, demographics are important, since certain demographics appear to riot more frequently than others. Pretending it's not so is intellectually dishonest, and going back generations in history to find other groups behaving badly is irrelevant to what's happening today.
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charby

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Re: Montreal reacts to violent riots with...appeasement.
« Reply #17 on: August 12, 2008, 04:34:52 AM »
Ya know, I find myself thinking more and more about a life of piracy. I read stories like the one above, and I think of the Danegeld my ancestors laid upon the Angles so many years ago. I think it would work out fairly well, so long as I could prey upon the French and English...and avoid the US Navy...

I just don't understand. I can not wrap my head around the idea of appeasing violent thugs.

My sir name ancestors where river boat pilots and captains, sometimes I wonder if I'd be happier on the water also.

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Manedwolf

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Re: Montreal reacts to violent riots with...appeasement.
« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2008, 04:47:43 AM »
I don't think it had anything to do with any religion or skin color. It was just people from dysfunctional third-world holes who not only don't respect their new homeland, but treat it "just like home"...in other words, trash the place.

And Montreal is just going to learn that appeasement only emboldens that kind.

charby

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Re: Montreal reacts to violent riots with...appeasement.
« Reply #19 on: August 12, 2008, 05:00:47 AM »
I don't get why folks just don't do what an police officer asks. If you aren't guilty of anything, the encounter with the police will be brief and you can go about your business. For the most part I don't think any police officer would draw and fire a weapon unless there was a threat of harm against the officer or others in the area.

I also don't understand when a community of people gets upset because one of their own screws up with the police and its the police's fault so lets go burn our neighborhood down.

If I was the mayor or whatever the leader of the city was I would went after that riot with a lot more force.

-C
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Balog

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Re: Montreal reacts to violent riots with...appeasement.
« Reply #20 on: August 12, 2008, 05:33:36 AM »
Simple 2 step riot prevention.
1. No fire or EMS services to rioting areas.
2. Rioters and looters will be shot on sight, by either civilians or cops.
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xavier fremboe

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Re: Montreal reacts to violent riots with...appeasement.
« Reply #21 on: August 12, 2008, 07:07:14 AM »
Gee, I wonder what religious/ethnic background the rioters were??  rolleyes

Completely irrelevant.

Chinese, Italians, Irish have all rioted in various points in American history.

Poor immigrant communities are often crime-ridden.

That said, I of course do not mean this excuses the behavior of the rioters.

Anybody who shoots or throws a brick at a cop or EMT should be immediately shot at.
In the last 50 years?

I'm sorry, what relevance does 'when it happened' have?

Fact:

Rioting is an activity engaged in by semi-illiterate, poor people, often immigrants, throughout the ages.

It is not restricted to Islam - as this thread illustrated already.
Easy there, I sometimes reply on my Ipod, and it's difficult to type long responses.

I was replying to your point, not Jake's.  I never mentioned Islam. The groups that you were mentioning were actively being discriminated against by the government, as in the Irish being directly conscripted off the boat into the Union Army during the Civil War. 

My point was that since there aren't any (currently) federally sanctioned scapegoats in the U.S., in the last 50 years, what group of recent immigrants has rioted?  It was an honest question, your history-fu is generally better than mine.
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Montreal reacts to violent riots with...appeasement.
« Reply #22 on: August 12, 2008, 07:21:06 AM »
It is true that in the US, there have not been significant immigrant riots recently - possibly because US reduced legal immigration to a trickle.

The reason I specificed immigrants, also, is because immigrants tend to be poor. Outside the US, there's a variety of instances of riots by whatever underclass society has. Israel had riots of Orthodox Jews, for instance (America had a mini-riot of Hasidic Jews at one point btw), France has 'suburban youths', and Britain has 'chavs' who are white.

I don't think race plays a role in this, nor does a particular culture. In Russia there are riots by VDV veterans who beat on riot police every 2nd of August.
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The Annoyed Man

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Re: Montreal reacts to violent riots with...appeasement.
« Reply #23 on: August 12, 2008, 08:27:40 AM »
Simple 2 step riot prevention.
1. No fire or EMS services to rioting areas.
2. Rioters and looters will be shot on sight, by either civilians or cops.
Over here, the firefighters/EMS in Malmö refuses to go to certain areas, unless they have police escort. Fact is, the police prefer to have police escort in there! One car to investigate whatever the aholes are up to this time, and another car to watch the first one. I usually say that we should just let it burn down. And let them die in a pool of their own blood and poo leaking out from them at an alarming rate.

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Re: Montreal reacts to violent riots with...appeasement.
« Reply #24 on: August 13, 2008, 11:33:51 PM »
... and Britain has 'chavs' who are white.

But they're just a bunch of lazy wankers inexplicably far-absorbed into hip-hop culture.  Most of the time, they're suburban.  A common American term would be "wigger."

Not really an underclass--more likely into causing trouble and raising hell for the "fun" of it.  Never understood the chav's obsession with Burberry, though.  sad
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