Author Topic: That oughta leave a mark  (Read 5228 times)

RoadKingLarry

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Re: That oughta leave a mark
« Reply #25 on: September 30, 2012, 05:22:58 PM »
OK, what is so great about the Jeep Cherokee, and if it is so great, why is it no more?

Other than the cachet of the Jeep brand, I've never heard anything good about them.

The early Jeep  XJ Cherokees were less than wonderful.  But about '91 someone in Jeep engineering managed to get one over on the bean counters and for about 10 years they built a reliable, durable, comfortable vehicle that tended not to break much and induced people to actually keep them beyond pay off date and expiration of warranty. It is my understanding that that mistake was corrected for the 2002 model year.

My daily driver is a '92 Cherokee Laredo with 250K miles on it. Other than normal wear items like brakes and tires, belts and hoses and such I've had to replace the alternator and the water pump.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

Hawkmoon

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Re: That oughta leave a mark
« Reply #26 on: September 30, 2012, 05:28:12 PM »
Hawkmoon, you could have easily sued (and won) for breech of contract.  Once you both signed and she accepted your check (deposited or not), the vehicle had been sold.

I know, but it would have been a useless victory. There was simply no way any court could have "made me whole" by requiring the dealer to provide me what I had purchased. My only monetary loss was the stop payment fee I paid the bank. What I wanted was the new Cherokee. And it had been out of production for ten years, so that wasn't possible.

Quote from: fistful
OK, what is so great about the Jeep Cherokee, and if it is so great, why is it no more?

Other than the cachet of the Jeep brand, I've never heard anything good about them.

They are (were) great because they run forever. I bought one new in January of 1988. It now has 287,000 miles on it and it's still going strong. It has been driven on difficult off-road trails from Maine to New Mexico. It hauled a VERY heavy load of computer gear clear across the country to set up a computer lab in a school on an Indian reservation. It still gets over 20 MPG on the highway and 18-ish around town. I've done one brake job in 287,000 miles. The original clutch lasted 204,000 miles, and was replaced only because the clutch release bearing got noisy and it was a lot of work to get at it, so the full clutch set was a pre-emptive strike. My graduate school roommate's wife had one -- she was hit head-on by a truck, and my roomie (who is a car nut, like me) told me flat out that he was sure if she and the two boys had been in any other vehicle, they would have been killed.

Why it is no more is that Chrysler bought Jeep, and then Daimler bought Chrysler. They didn't want to build anything that didn't fit multiple "platforms." That meant the Jeep in-line 6-cylinder engine had to go, and the Dana solid front axle had to go. They wee originally going to call the 2002 replacement vehicle a Cherokee, but there was such revolt among Jeep owners that they called it the Liberty instead ... in the U.S. In foreign markets, the same vehicle we see here as the Liberty is badged as the Cherokee.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2012, 05:38:10 PM by Hawkmoon »
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lupinus

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Re: That oughta leave a mark
« Reply #27 on: September 30, 2012, 05:53:44 PM »
Hawk, want to really puke?

They are releasing a new Cherokee, it'll be out for a 2014 model.

Go ahead, take a look at it. Bonus points if you want to hurt something when you see what platform it'll be based on.

Oh, and I have a 98 Cherokee. 160k or so on the clock. Has some issues that one expects in an almost 15 year old vehicle, but the major mechanical bits are all sound. It's no longer the daily driver and serves as a backup for when both the wife and I actually need a car at the same time, but it's still going strong.
That is all. *expletive deleted*ck you all, eat *expletive deleted*it, and die in a fire. I have considered writing here a long parting section dedicated to each poster, but I have decided, at length, against it. *expletive deleted*ck you all and Hail Satan.

Tallpine

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Re: That oughta leave a mark
« Reply #28 on: September 30, 2012, 06:20:10 PM »
I was tempted. By the time it was all said and done, he tried to sell me the service plan, disability and death coverage, GAP coverage, and something else I don't recall at the moment. I didn't get any of it.

Was that Ned "the bull" Ryerson ?   =D


One of my daughters had a ninety-something Cherokee for a while.  I don't think she ever had any trouble with it running or driving, but the body was pretty much crap: all kinds of stuff like $300 to replace door locks :(
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

280plus

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Re: That oughta leave a mark
« Reply #29 on: September 30, 2012, 10:20:40 PM »
Sounds like the oil change place the other day, "High mileage oil? No, Transmission tune up? no, radiator flush and fill? no." I felt like we were playing 20 questions.  [barf]
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Hawkmoon

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Re: That oughta leave a mark
« Reply #30 on: September 30, 2012, 10:51:34 PM »
Hawk, want to really puke?

They are releasing a new Cherokee, it'll be out for a 2014 model.

Go ahead, take a look at it. Bonus points if you want to hurt something when you see what platform it'll be based on.

Yeah, I know.

The sad thing is that my dealership is a small, family-owned business. The current owner's father and I were active members of the Hudson-Essex-Terraplane Club for many years, "back in the day." When I was buying the Cherokees I didn't shop around, I just walked in and asked for their best price. Whatever it was, I didn't haggle. When I was looking for a used one, I went there first because I wanted to give them some business. As it is, I buy my parts from them when possible. (And I get trade pricing.)

But ... they know I'm not going to be buying any new vehicles from them, because Jeep won't build anything I want to drive. At my age, I can probably look forward to fifteen or maybe twenty more years of driving, so I'll just find enough Cherokees to last me that long and call it good. I have the factory service manuals for 1988, 1994, and 2000, so I'm pretty well covered for tech. And the new ones (1997 and up) are OBD-II and I have the code scanner. There's just no reason for me to switch platforms at this point.

Quote from this article on the new "Liberkee": http://www.allpar.com/SUVs/jeep/2014-cherokee.html

Quote
... whether it’s the Liberty replacement or whether it’s the Patriot replacement, there will be a trail-rated version of those vehicles as well. That’s very important to us, because that’s DNA that traces our history all the way back to Wrangler as to be in each of our vehicles.

Well, whoop-dee-doo!

Jeep's "Trail Rated" program is, itself, an affront to Jeep owners and enthusiasts. Up through the first Libertine, Jeep always ran a late prototype of a new vehicle across the famous Rubicon Trail in California as a final test of its off-road capability. When they introduced the 1999 "WJ" Grand Cherokee, the new Grand made it through, but not in great condition. But they didn't learn from that when they designed the Liberty. When they tried to take the Libery across the Rubicon Trail, it wouldn't make it without cheating. At many of the vertical obstacles (which previous Jeeps had always just driven over) they had to stack loose rocks into approach ramps to get over -- and even then the vehicle suffered significant under-carriage damage. Unfortunately for Jeep's PR efforts, the Rubicon is a public trail, and there were members on the public on the trail who photographed the rock stacking -- and promptly spread the word among Jeepers and off-roaders in general.

Chrysler/Jeep was acutely embarrassed (and even more so when a magazine car test managed to roll the test vehicle in the standard slalom, resulting in Jeep cancelling the off-road suspension option, which rides one inch higher than the standard suspension). So Jeep decided they weren't going to do the Rubicon Trail any more. Instead, they came up with a standard set of wimpy "obstacles" at their test track, akin to the wimpy "obstacles" they used to create at their weekend "Jeep 101" events around the country, and they used these as their criteria. If the vehicle passed (with no observation by the public), it earned the "Trail Rated" badge. Those of us whose Jeep models have actually conquered the Rubicon Trail regard "Trail Rated" as the joke it is.

« Last Edit: September 30, 2012, 11:12:04 PM by Hawkmoon »
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100% Politically Incorrect by Design

Scout26

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Re: That oughta leave a mark
« Reply #31 on: September 30, 2012, 11:00:16 PM »
Every used car dealership in Chicago has at least one Cherokee on their lot.  I think it's a law or something... ;) 
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ArfinGreebly

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Re: That oughta leave a mark
« Reply #32 on: September 30, 2012, 11:17:25 PM »

The early Jeep  XJ Cherokees were less than wonderful.  But about '91 someone in Jeep engineering managed to get one over on the bean counters and for about 10 years they built a reliable, durable, comfortable vehicle that tended not to break much and induced people to actually keep them beyond pay off date and expiration of warranty. It is my understanding that that mistake was corrected for the 2002 model year.

My daily driver is a '92 Cherokee Laredo with 250K miles on it. Other than normal wear items like brakes and tires, belts and hoses and such I've had to replace the alternator and the water pump.

A few years ago I accidentally stumbled on a thing I would have said didn't exist:  A 1993 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo with a 5-speed stick.  I was stunned.  I had been browsing the ads looking for a used Cherokee with a stick, and ran across this ad for the Grand containing the words "new clutch."  Wait . . . what?  The Grand doesn't have a clutch.  The photos, however, made it clear that there was, indeed, a third pedal, and the badge atop the shift lever clearly indicated 5-speed.

After a little research, I discovered that the Grand had a 5-speed option for the year models 1993, 1994, and 1995.  I looked it over, found that it had some rust that indicated I'd have a steep restoration bill sometime in the future, and bought it anyway.

Damn thing ran like a clock.  Comfortable.  Heated power seats, power windows & locks, cruise control, leather steering wheel, factory alloy wheels.  That winter I used it to pull some guy's Camry out of a ditch, and it dragged that sedan like it was a bag of feathers.

And then one day, when my son was borrowing it while his car was being worked on, some lady in a 9-passenger van rear-ended him and totaled the Jeep.

It took me another year and a half to find another 5-speed Grand Cherokee.  The one I have now -- a 1994 -- is not as nice as the 1993 was.  It has various electrical quirks (windows & locks mostly work), has awful paint, and it still needs some mechanical work (front transfer case), but otherwise it's solid and runs well.  Of course, considering the cash I plowed into it the first week I had it, it had friggin' better run well.

I will eventually rebuild this thing, and it will look like new.  It will cost me more than the Jeep did fresh off the lot, but until Chrysler makes a new 5-speed four-door 4x4 in its class with equivalent features, I'm keepin' this one.

I've since met just one other 5-speed Grand, a 1995 in almost pristine condition.  I nearly wept.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2012, 02:19:20 AM by ArfinGreebly »
"Look at it this way. If America frightens you, feel free to live somewhere else. There are plenty of other countries that don't suffer from excessive liberty. America is where the Liberty is. Liberty is not certified safe."

Perd Hapley

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Re: That oughta leave a mark
« Reply #33 on: October 01, 2012, 12:22:46 AM »
Oh. Didn't know they had such a following.
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kgbsquirrel

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Re: That oughta leave a mark
« Reply #34 on: October 01, 2012, 01:09:23 AM »
Sounds like the oil change place the other day, "High mileage oil? No, Transmission tune up? no, radiator flush and fill? no." I felt like we were playing 20 questions.  [barf]

Perhaps something to lighten the mood.  =D
http://youtu.be/YZMWgW6QNuw

Pharmacology

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Re: That oughta leave a mark
« Reply #35 on: October 01, 2012, 01:52:51 AM »
I was tempted. By the time it was all said and done, he tried to sell me the service plan, disability and death coverage, GAP coverage, and something else I don't recall at the moment. I didn't get any of it.
Gap coverage is actually fairly useful.

Stoned driver nailed me back in 07 in my dad's 6 week old pickup.
even with the best insurance, about $4 or 5K  was lost to the "gap."

280plus

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Re: That oughta leave a mark
« Reply #36 on: October 01, 2012, 08:08:51 AM »
Perhaps something to lighten the mood.  =D
http://youtu.be/YZMWgW6QNuw
There you go alright.  :lol:
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Fitz

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Re: That oughta leave a mark
« Reply #37 on: October 01, 2012, 08:22:35 AM »
Gap coverage is actually fairly useful.

Stoned driver nailed me back in 07 in my dad's 6 week old pickup.
even with the best insurance, about $4 or 5K  was lost to the "gap."

This. Any time I get a low enough rate to make 100 percent financing worth it (like the 0% on my current motorcycle)  I get Gap
Fitz

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Tallpine

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Re: That oughta leave a mark
« Reply #38 on: October 01, 2012, 09:29:13 AM »
Quote
Rubicon Trail

Heck, I just want to see how it holds up to 100K miles up and down our gravel/dirt county road.  :lol:
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: That oughta leave a mark
« Reply #39 on: October 01, 2012, 09:43:30 AM »
i used to tease my jeep friends   then i got a 95 cherokee. i am one of the faithful. driven it in serious snow  had 4000 newpapers in and on it. hauled a tandem axle dump bed full of gravel. driven cross country with wife 2 kids and 2 dogs. and its been great. i feel confident about it
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

rcnixon

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Re: That oughta leave a mark
« Reply #40 on: October 01, 2012, 08:10:32 PM »
OK, what is so great about the Jeep Cherokee, and if it is so great, why is it no more?

Other than the cachet of the Jeep brand, I've never heard anything good about them.

I've had two, a '94 and a '98.  Total milage on both is over 400,000.  Repairs were negligible, the only major issue was a rear main seal on the engine of the '94 that was repaired under the drivetrain warrantee.

The '98 was in a minor accident, bashed the grill, the radiator and the A/C condenser.  I fixed it myself but never had the condenser hooked up and the system pumped down and recharged.  I signed it over to the daughter a couple of years ago and she got $1500 for it last February.

Regular maintenance and the fact that both were two-wheel drive with five speed manuals contributed to the lack of maintenance headaches.  That 4.0 liter in-line six was a puller too.  I didn't tow heavy boats or car haulers, just the usual utility trailers, but fully loaded and pulling a 5'X8' with household stuff was no problem.  I wish I had another one.

One interesting note: the '98 was a couple of inches narrower than the '94.  I could put my left foot flat on the floor next to the clutch pedal in the '94 but in the '98, I had to wiggle it in there.

Russ

280plus

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Re: That oughta leave a mark
« Reply #41 on: October 01, 2012, 08:37:57 PM »
I had an old master mechanic tell me the AMC inline 6 was the best motor on the road. Had one in my eagle. Can't remember what year it was but I liked it. It was still going strong when I donated the car. Another one I wish I still had. lol
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grislyatoms

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Re: That oughta leave a mark
« Reply #42 on: October 01, 2012, 10:46:51 PM »
A shame most manufacturers no longer make an inline 6. My '88 Ford inline 6 300ci still runs like the day it was made. 200K miles, burns 0 oil, and still turns out the torque.
"A son of the sea, am I" Gordon Lightfoot

RoadKingLarry

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Re: That oughta leave a mark
« Reply #43 on: October 01, 2012, 11:36:12 PM »
I've always had a soft spot for inline 6s. All 3 vehicles in my current beater stable run straight 6s. A 250 in the 83 Chevy, the 4 ltr in the Cherokee and a '66 Chevy 292 in the M715.
I'm in the planning stages of building a hot rod 292 to drop into the M715.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

Tallpine

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Re: That oughta leave a mark
« Reply #44 on: October 02, 2012, 09:58:13 AM »
I've always had a soft spot for inline 6s. All 3 vehicles in my current beater stable run straight 6s. A 250 in the 83 Chevy, the 4 ltr in the Cherokee and a '66 Chevy 292 in the M715.
I'm in the planning stages of building a hot rod 292 to drop into the M715.

They sure are easy to work on  =)
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

Scout26

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Re: That oughta leave a mark
« Reply #45 on: October 02, 2012, 02:32:40 PM »
I had an AMC Eagle.  Loved that car...
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.