Sovereign citizens in the news

[MillCreek]

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-sovereigns-20130406,0,3800088.story

I wonder if the 'sovereign citizens' movement is growing, decreasing, or what.

[Blakenzy]

Well, they are ahead of their time. Funny thing is, if these people were just ignored there probably wouldn't be violence, most likely. But people who attempt to live free from coercion have to be made an example of so that the trend doesn't spread. "Terrorist organization", 

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Your experience with "soverigns" differs with mine

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[CNYCacher]

Your experience with "soverigns" differs with mine

 

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Thanks for the notice

[MechAg94]

Well, they are ahead of their time. Funny thing is, if these people were just ignored there probably wouldn't be violence, most likely. But people who attempt to live free from coercion have to be made an example of so that the trend doesn't spread. "Terrorist organization", 

How do they ignore someone with fake license plates, unpaid tickets, and passing counterfeit money orders.  That is a bit different than just refusing to acknowledge authority. 

[Blakenzy]

How do they ignore someone with fake license plates, unpaid tickets, and passing counterfeit money orders.  That is a bit different than just refusing to acknowledge authority. 

That's exactly what refusing to acknowledge authority is, or at least what practicing it would look like. Why would you get permission from or pay anything to a group of people that never had the authority to demand anything from you in the first place?

[MicroBalrog]

The problem with sovereign citizen is that they think they can ignore the government until it goes away.

A charming concept, but too naive even for dealing with gradeschool bullies.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

More ironic since the staple tactic of the sovreign is to try to bully. I know 11 folks who play that game. Fortunately 5 of them only do it when off their meds. A quick look at the vids they post themselves is good for chuckles

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[Jamisjockey]

I'd consider most soverigns to be criminal libertarians.  Seems everytime they end up in the news, its for crimes.  And not the victimless type. 

[Fitz]

That's exactly what refusing to acknowledge authority is, or at least what practicing it would look like. Why would you get permission from or pay anything to a group of people that never had the authority to demand anything from you in the first place?

Yeah man. Passing counterfeit money orders is totes just about refusing authority. *expletive deleted*ck the guy they use said money orders to scam . He's just a pawn of the state anyway.

I've never met a sovereign citizen type who wasn't a scumbag. Maybe there are good folks within the movement, but it seems most are just using it as justification for criminal behavior

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Or role players

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[Ron]

They are obviously deluded.

There is no such thing as a true sovereign citizen anymore.

[zxcvbob]

They are obviously deluded.

There is no such thing as a true sovereign citizen anymore.

The Amish are the best model.  But the state is increasingly crowding in on them too.

[Tallpine]

I generally ignore authority 

I suppose that having a DL and valid plates on my vehicles makes me a slave, though 

[AZRedhawk44]

How do they ignore someone with fake license plates, unpaid tickets, and passing counterfeit money orders.  That is a bit different than just refusing to acknowledge authority. 

^ This.

Most "sovereign citizens" are trying to find some sort of way to break a contract.  Doesn't matter what contract... the implied "social contract" that is (arguably) slavery to the State is not necessarily their primary goal.  More often it's some actual true contract they've signed and now want out of.  Mortgage, loans, credit card debt, private agreements with business partners or family members, etc.

I know lots of people that consider themselves "sovereign" but don't go around trumpeting it and looking to pick fights with contracts they've entered into.  They honor their agreements, move on and are wiser in the next set of agreements they get into once satisfying the earlier ones.  Actively minimize their tax burden by avoiding the miasma of consumerist taxes prevalent in our system and participating in the "alternative" market.

Someone who honors the notion of self ownership isn't going to be creating counterfeit money orders (i.e. counterfeiting private currency) and using roads without contributing to their upkeep, or trespassing by leaving their vehicle in places they do not own or have permission to leave their vehicle.

[HankB]

Most "sovereign citizens" are trying to find some sort of way to break a contract.  Doesn't matter what contract... the implied "social contract" that is (arguably) slavery to the State is not necessarily their primary goal.  More often it's some actual true contract they've signed and now want out of.  Mortgage, loans, credit card debt, private agreements with business partners or family members, etc.

We had some guys here in TX a number of years back who decided that TX had never "legally" joined the USA, so one day a small group - less than a dozen - held an election in an old trailer and voted themselves the leaders of the Republic of Texas.

People would have ignored them, except they tried paying off debts using imaginary funds drawn on fictitious "Republic of Texas" banks . . . and they got mighty upset when their crooked scam didn't work payments weren't accepted.

[MechAg94]

I generally ignore authority 

I suppose that having a DL and valid plates on my vehicles makes me a slave, though 

That is kind of where I was going with my thinking.  If one wants to get away and be ignored by the authorities, there are places to go and occupations better suited for that.  If you are going to live in a city, you can't just ignore the local govt, but all cities and local govts are not the same.  Find one you can live with or move. 

[seeker_two]

I'm having a hard time telling the SC's & the OWS's apart.....

[Tallpine]

That is kind of where I was going with my thinking.  If one wants to get away and be ignored by the authorities, there are places to go and occupations better suited for that.  If you are going to live in a city, you can't just ignore the local govt, but all cities and local govts are not the same.  Find one you can live with or move. 

It's sort of helpful that the county sheriff ignores us rural folk.  They never come out here unless there is a 911 call or they have to serve papers.

[MicroBalrog]

Even granting that there is a need to overthrow the state - which is not entirely crazy - overthrowing things DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY.

[sanglant]

I'm having a hard time telling the SC's & the OWS's apart.....

SSDD

[Jocassee]

The validity of the program the article describes hinges upon one paragraph:

They teach police to recognize sovereigns by their convoluted legal jargon and "mouthy" defiance. "Sovereign citizens are more likely not to obey their commands and more likely to commit violence during a traffic stop," Finch said.

More likely than WHOM? Gang members? Women? Other white men with beards? The article sites 6 deaths since 2000 and does not dicuss any other violence. The episode in West Memphis was tragic but not earth shattering the way the LE community would like to think.

I know for a fact that DHS has pushed white papers pushing the fact that Sovereign citizens are to be feared as deadly terrorists. Which is in my opinion complete bullshit...but I hear about it from my cop friends. In SC, something as innocent as a Gadsden flag sticker can mark you as a "domestic terrorist." Complete nonsense as we know. Good cops will ignore it. But as we know from my experience, it only takes one ignorant, mean-spirited, or just plain LAZY cop to *expletive deleted*ck up your day.

DHS is an agent of cultural imperialism bent on using local law enforcement to carry out the will of the Northeast Media-Political Complex. Nothing less. You may not believe me until a cop asks you if your car is booby-trapped with explosives during what should be a routine stop. Anything you say WILL be used against you.

Rant off, sorry.

[AZRedhawk44]

DHS is an agent of cultural imperialism bent on using local law enforcement to carry out the will of the Northeast Media-Political Complex. Nothing less. You may not believe me until a cop asks you if your car is booby-trapped with explosives during what should be a routine stop. Anything you say WILL be used against you.

Fitz, when are you going to get a real job?

[Jocassee]

I should probably clarify after that screed that I do not support the Sovereign Citizen movement in any way. They sound like a truly obnoxious bunch. It just sounds like cops had a moment of clarity after West Memphis that went something like "Oh, white people might shoot us too!" and everything went downhill from there.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

I should probably clarify after that screed that I do not support the Sovereign Citizen movement in any way. They sound like a truly obnoxious bunch. It just sounds like cops had a moment of clarity after West Memphis that went something like "Oh, white people might shoot us too!" and everything went downhill from there.

these folks have been around longer than you   posse commitatus movement in 70's