Author Topic: North Korea #2 (Updated & merged - they did it again!)  (Read 9009 times)

birdman

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Re: North Korea #2?
« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2013, 12:48:20 PM »
Get Nerf to manuf the warhead.

Come on roo, you know as well as well as I do that a few hundred kg of anything, be it uranium, nerf, jello, animal, mineral, or vegetable impacting at hypersonic velocities carries substantial energy.

never_retreat

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Re: North Korea #2?
« Reply #26 on: February 12, 2013, 01:41:21 PM »
So now that the nork's have used up all there fissile material, what will there next trick be?
Another "satellite" launch that blows up on the pad?
Hanging out in south Korean waters trying to pick a fight?
Giving tray parker and matt stone enough material for a season of south park?
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Gewehr98

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Re: North Korea #2?
« Reply #27 on: February 12, 2013, 02:25:55 PM »
Who told you they used up all their fissile material?

Have you notified the folks at the Yongbyon reactor and fuel reprocessing facility that they're now done?

Hint: they're not done. 

They had oodles of spent fuel rods in water storage cooling off to have the Pu239 and U235 extracted, and resumed that particular function in 2009.
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never_retreat

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Re: North Korea #2?
« Reply #28 on: February 12, 2013, 03:21:32 PM »
Who told you they used up all their fissile material?

Have you notified the folks at the Yongbyon reactor and fuel reprocessing facility that they're now done?

Hint: they're not done. 

They had oodles of spent fuel rods in water storage cooling off to have the Pu239 and U235 extracted, and resumed that particular function in 2009.
It was a guess, the ground vibrations that we felt are indicating something low yield. So either they used up what they had or it did not go boom right. I doubt they would do a small test, kim ding dong want to instill fear on the west or who ever will take notice for that matter.
Yes they can make more, i was not saying they could not, but its not exactly a fast process.
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Gewehr98

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Re: North Korea #2?
« Reply #29 on: February 12, 2013, 04:38:58 PM »
Slow and steady wins the race, Grasshopper.

Yongbyon was creating about 6Kg/year in that reactor, and estimated over time to have 40+ Kg of Pu239 available in those spent fuel rods, plus whatever U-235 they could extract.

11 Kg of Pu239 are considered the "norm" for a fission device.  The Norks haven't shot their wad yet.

Re: Vibrations & yield estimates - underground nuclear tests propogate multiple seismic waves, which circle the globe in all directions.

They arrive at the civilian and military seismometers (see what I did there?) planted all around the world, hither and yon.

The S-Waves and P-Waves arrive at the seismometer(s), albeit at different times because they move at different speeds through the earth's crust.

Plant a big enough array of those seismometers deep down a hole close to bedrock, and you can triangulate the location, depth, and magnitude of a given "thump". 

View those incoming waveforms at The Center on a scope, develocorder, or computer, and you can immediately see the characteristic double hump of a nuclear device.   :angel: 

Countries like North Korea, China, Pakistan, India, and the Soviet Union have attempted to "decouple" their devices in their tunnels or boreholes to reduce the seismic signature.

It doesn't matter much, because the shock wave still transfers energy to the earth, and 1,000 tons of TNT still produce a noticeably different waveform than a fission or fusion bomb.

Low-yield nukes produce a greater level of uncertainty with respect to nailing down the true yield of the device, but are by no means invisible.

This is just the seismic portion of the equation.  The guys in the "Zip Room" will call the Watch Officer, who then starts his alert checklist, and it's off to the races.

My pager goes off, and I'm speeding to the squadron to get my first briefing for what is guaranteed to be a fun-filled several days or weeks. 

 

"Bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round...

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kgbsquirrel

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North Korea successfully detonates a nuke.
« Reply #30 on: February 12, 2013, 05:36:56 PM »
Subject says it all. Word coming in is they managed about 10 kilotons.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/12/us-korea-north-idUSBRE91B04820130212

Hutch

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Re: North Korea successfully detonates a nuke.
« Reply #31 on: February 12, 2013, 08:58:06 PM »
If someone uncorks the bottled sunshine on us, I'd bet it's one or more EMP high altitude bursts, form tramp freighters off the coasts, and supplied by the Norks.  I heard today that this country of 42 million has a GDP of ~ 1 billion USD equiv, of which ~ 1/3 goes to their DoD.  Doesn't leave a lot for bandaids and kimchee.
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French G.

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Re: North Korea #2 (Updated & merged - they did it again!)
« Reply #32 on: February 13, 2013, 05:13:12 AM »
I don't see the norks attacking us directly or passing a bomb to a 3rd party. Too much leverage for them to just rattle it. But it does destabilize a region that we are invested in, like it or not. Or most likely American casualties would be our South Korean trip wire. If the was ever a spot for a Ron Paul bring them all home move, that's it. Beyond that, we are obligated to Japan's aid. If we leave the region wholesale an asiatic power with dreams of empire runs wild in the pacific and when we have to go back to fix it it's a huge mess. Those dummies could easily spark aa regional conflict that could go off the tracks.

On crickets, how long before we have viable drones that look and act like crickets? I'm sure DARPA has them somewhere.
AKA Navy Joe   

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Blakenzy

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Re: North Korea #2 (Updated & merged - they did it again!)
« Reply #33 on: February 13, 2013, 06:23:15 AM »
I have no trouble with crickets in the yard.. but if they get inside...

ZOMG teh room!!! It's BUGGED!!!  [tinfoil]
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RevDisk

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Re: North Korea successfully detonates a nuke.
« Reply #34 on: February 18, 2013, 01:41:02 PM »
If someone uncorks the bottled sunshine on us, I'd bet it's one or more EMP high altitude bursts, form tramp freighters off the coasts, and supplied by the Norks.  I heard today that this country of 42 million has a GDP of ~ 1 billion USD equiv, of which ~ 1/3 goes to their DoD.  Doesn't leave a lot for bandaids and kimchee.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0925838806016653

It wouldn't help. We'd be able to narrow down the list very quickly. G98 would be a more knowledge source than I, but I'm aware that we can fairly accurately determine who made a nuclear weapon.


EMP burst would be among the least damaging ways of using a nuclear weapon. Short story long, annoying and expensive if used against you. But not cripplingly so. Larger the impacted area, smaller the impact.

Source: http://www.ece.unm.edu/summa/notes/TheoreticalPDFs/TN177.pdf
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Hutch

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Re: North Korea successfully detonates a nuke.
« Reply #35 on: February 18, 2013, 09:01:07 PM »
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0925838806016653

It wouldn't help. We'd be able to narrow down the list very quickly. G98 would be a more knowledge source than I, but I'm aware that we can fairly accurately determine who made a nuclear weapon.


EMP burst would be among the least damaging ways of using a nuclear weapon. Short story long, annoying and expensive if used against you. But not cripplingly so. Larger the impacted area, smaller the impact.

Source: http://www.ece.unm.edu/summa/notes/TheoreticalPDFs/TN177.pdf
Rev, I couldn't get to the sciencedirect article, and couldn't understand the PDF.  Regarding EMP attack, it sure plays a big role in some juicy PostApoc fiction.  You don't mean to say that fiction is... fiction??? I'm both relieved and disappointed.
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RevDisk

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Re: North Korea successfully detonates a nuke.
« Reply #36 on: February 18, 2013, 10:21:41 PM »
Rev, I couldn't get to the sciencedirect article, and couldn't understand the PDF.  Regarding EMP attack, it sure plays a big role in some juicy PostApoc fiction.  You don't mean to say that fiction is... fiction??? I'm both relieved and disappointed.

It could fry anything poorly made, or poorly grounded.  So, dangerous but not world ending. And again, larger the impact area or further away, less any particular point gets.

Satellites are designed to take quite a beating from solar and cosmic radiation.

So, yep
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