Post by: Felonious Monk/Fignozzle on September 02, 2005, 01:53:56 PM
I am so disgusted that I can hardly hold down my lunch.
This is the biggest disaster the U.S. has ever experienced, the response has been immediate and dramatic, despite shots being fired at the rescuers.
The N.O. Mayor is flailing around looking for someone to blame.
And now, it's George Dubya's and the Republicans' fault.
I'm sick.
Post by: Iain on September 02, 2005, 02:11:46 PM
Bet it would have worked this time.
Post by: Dannyboy on September 02, 2005, 02:41:08 PM
The Victims
From Margins of Society to Center of the Tragedy
By DAVID GONZALEZ
Published: September 2, 2005
The scenes of floating corpses, scavengers fighting for food and desperate throngs seeking any way out of New Orleans have been tragic enough. But for many African-American leaders, there is a growing outrage that many of those still stuck at the center of this tragedy were people who for generations had been pushed to the margins of society.
The victims, they note, were largely black and poor, those who toiled in the background of the tourist havens, living in tumbledown neighborhoods that were long known to be vulnerable to disaster if the levees failed. Without so much as a car or bus fare to escape ahead of time, they found themselves left behind by a failure to plan for their rescue should the dreaded day ever arrive.
"If you know that terror is approaching in terms of hurricanes, and you've already seen the damage they've done in Florida and elsewhere, what in God's name were you thinking?" said the Rev. Calvin O. Butts III, pastor of Abyssinian Baptist Church in Harlem. "I think a lot of it has to do with race and class. The people affected were largely poor people. Poor, black people."
In the days since neighborhoods and towns along the Gulf Coast were wiped out by the winds and water, there has been a growing sense that race and class are the unspoken markers of who got out and who got stuck. Just as in developing countries where the failures of rural development policies become glaringly clear at times of natural disasters like floods or drought, many national leaders said, some of the United States' poorest cities have been left vulnerable by federal policies.
"No one would have checked on a lot of the black people in these parishes while the sun shined," said Mayor Milton D. Tutwiler of Winstonville, Miss. "So am I surprised that no one has come to help us now? No."
The subject is roiling black-oriented Web sites and message boards, and many black officials say it is a prime subject of conversation around the country. Some African-Americans have described the devastation wrought by Hurricane Katrina as "our tsunami," while noting that there has yet to be a response equal to that which followed the Asian tragedy.
Roosevelt F. Dorn, the mayor of Inglewood, Calif., and the president of the National Association of Black Mayors, said relief and rescue officials needed to act faster.
"I have a list of black mayors in Mississippi and Alabama who are crying out for help," Mr. Dorn said. "Their cities are gone and they are in despair. And no one has answered their cries."
The Rev. Jesse Jackson said cities had been dismissed by the Bush administration because Mr. Bush received few urban votes.
"Many black people feel that their race, their property conditions and their voting patterns have been a factor in the response," Mr. Jackson said, after meeting with Louisiana officials yesterday. "I'm not saying that myself, but what's self-evident is that you have many poor people without a way out."
In New Orleans, the disaster's impact underscores the intersection of race and class in a city where fully two-thirds of its residents are black and more than a quarter of the city lives in poverty. In the Lower Ninth Ward neighborhood, which was inundated by the floodwaters, more than 98 percent of the residents are black and more than a third live in poverty.
Spencer R. Crew, president and chief executive officer of the national Underground Railroad Freedom Center in Cincinnati, said the aftermath of the hurricane would force people to confront inequality.
"Most cities have a hidden or not always talked about poor population, black and white, and most of the time we look past them," Dr. Crew said. "This is a moment in time when we can't look past them. Their plight is coming to the forefront now. They were the ones less able to hop in a car and less able to drive off."
That disparity has been criticized as a "disgrace" by Charles B. Rangel, the senior Democratic congressman from New York City, who said it was made all the worse by the failure of government officials to have planned.
"I assume the president's going to say he got bad intelligence, Mr. Rangel said, adding that the danger to the levees was clear.
"I think that wherever you see poverty, whether it's in the white rural community or the black urban community, you see that the resources have been sucked up into the war and tax cuts for the rich," he said.
Outside Brooklyn Law School yesterday, a man selling recordings of famous African-Americans was upset at the failure to have prepared for the worst. The man, who said his name was Muhammad Ali, drew a damning conclusion about the failure to protect New Orleans.
"Blacks ain't worth it," he said. "New Orleans is a hopeless case."
Among the messages and essays circulating in cyberspace that lament the lost lives and missed opportunities is one by Mark Naison, a white professor of African-American Studies at Fordham University in the Bronx.
"Is this what the pioneers of the civil rights movement fought to achieve, a society where many black people are as trapped and isolated by their poverty as they were by segregation laws?" Mr. Naison wrote. "If Sept. 11 showed the power of a nation united in response to a devastating attack, Hurricane Katrina reveals the fault lines of a region and a nation, rent by profound social divisions."
That sentiment was shared by members of other minority groups who understand the bizarre equality of poverty.
"We tend to think of natural disasters as somehow even-handed, as somehow random," said MartÃn Espada, an English professor at the University of Massachusetts and poet of a decidedly leftist political bent who is Puerto Rican. "Yet it has always been thus: poor people are in danger. That is what it means to be poor. It's dangerous to be poor. It's dangerous to be black. It's dangerous to be Latino."
This Sunday there will be prayers. In pews from the Gulf Coast to the Northeast, the faithful will come together and pray for those who lived and those who died. They will seek to understand something that has yet to be fully comprehended.
Some may talk of a divine hand behind all of this. But others have already noted the absence of a human one.
"Everything is God's will," said Charles Steele Jr., the president of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference in Atlanta. "But there's a certain amount of common sense that God gives to individuals to prepare for certain things."
That means, Mr. Steele said, not waiting until the eve of crisis.
"Most of the people that live in the neighborhoods that were most vulnerable are black and poor," he said. "So it comes down to a lack of sensitivity on the part of people in Washington that you need to help poor folks. It's as simple as that."
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/02/national/nationalspecial/02discrim.html?hp&ex=1125720000&en=9ce372bd33f25d06&ei=5094&partner=homepage
http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=4785
Emphasis added to illustrate that Rangel is a complete moron.
Post by: griz on September 02, 2005, 02:50:24 PM
Sarcasm aside, I think NBC either lied or exagerated about several facts in their broadcast and each time it was to sensationalize the tragedy. So I think I'll go back to reading the news.
Post by: jefnvk on September 02, 2005, 04:01:52 PM
Post by: grampster on September 02, 2005, 05:56:56 PM
Post by: Standing Wolf on September 02, 2005, 05:58:27 PM
Post by: garyk/nm on September 02, 2005, 06:09:12 PM
Everyone knows, RED wine with red meat. Everyone with gold teefs knows dat.
Why must these yahoos play the race card at every available opportunity?
Rev. Butts from Harlem? Yeah, he's got a handle on what's happening in NO. Right.
Idiots.
Post by: Zundfolge on September 02, 2005, 08:46:15 PM
Quote from: jefnvk
Yep. I forget how if Kerry were President, that everyone would be evacuated, the city would be dried and the residents would have all the filet mingon and white wine that they wanted.
White wine with Fliet Mignon!!??I knew that Kerry was a philistine!
Post by: Antibubba on September 02, 2005, 09:45:52 PM
Post by: jefnvk on September 02, 2005, 10:01:57 PM
I'd rather have two steaks than steak and wine
Post by: Guest on September 02, 2005, 11:30:59 PM
Quote from: Zundfolge
Quote from: jefnvk
Yep. I forget how if Kerry were President, that everyone would be evacuated, the city would be dried and the residents would have all the filet mingon and white wine that they wanted.
White wine with Fliet Mignon!!??I knew that Kerry was a philistine!
Course i just drink beer with it :-p
Post by: Perd Hapley on September 03, 2005, 05:02:11 AM
Quote
If Bush had any intention of bulling us out of Iraq, he could use "the disaster st home" as a way to do it without losing face. It'd make him look like a hero, in fact.
ROFL! Are you serious?
Post by: El Tejon on September 03, 2005, 05:05:54 AM
Post by: Perd Hapley on September 03, 2005, 05:35:56 AM
Mullings: An American Cyber-Column
Friday September 02, 2005
Its All My Fault
by Rich Galen
" Let me make this clear: Everything which has happened as the result of Hurricane Katrina is my fault. Mine. Alone. No one elses. Stop wasting energy pointing fingers and put your hands to work helping out. It was me. Got it?
" I was a United States Senator from Louisiana in 2001 when the levee at Lake Pontchartrain was declared unsafe and I didnt have enough clout with my Senatorial brethren to get sufficient money appropriated to fix it. It was my fault.
" Notwithstanding my failure on that front, according to wire services:
In a telephone interview with reporters, corps officials said that & the levees near Lake Pontchartrain that gave way & were completed and in good condition before the hurricane.
However, they noted that the levees were designed for a Category 3 hurricane and couldn't handle the ferocious winds and raging waters from Hurricane Katrina, a Category 4 storm when it hit the coastline. The decision to build levees for a Category 3 hurricane was made based on a cost-benefit analysis in the 1960s.
" Oh. I almost forgot. I was the Commander-in-Chief of all United States Armed Forces in the 1960s which includes the Corps of Engineers. The cost-benefit analysis? My fault.
" It is my fault that, as the Governor of Louisiana, I didnt foresee the need to have enough Louisiana National Guard troops the vast majority of whom are NOT currently in Iraq, or Afghanistan or, for that matter, Indiana pre-positioned and ready to preserve order.
" I, frankly, forgot that there is a portion of the population which will steal anything from anyone given any opportunity and then will blame it on me because I didnt in spite of ample warnings by sociologists from large Eastern Universities - foresee the need to have 27 flat-screen television sets available to every family in the New Orleans city limits as soon as the electricity went out. That one WAS my bad.
" It is my fault that, as Mayor of New Orleans, I was boogying down Bourbon Street the night before the hurricane hit rather than being where I should have been on the roof of the Superdome putting in extra roofing nails to hold the roof on.
" As the architect of the Superdome it was my fault for claiming that the Dome could survive 200 mile-per-hour winds. It couldnt even handle a relatively gentle160 mile-per-hour zephyr. Strap me to my drafting table and set me adrift.
" Global warming? My fault. Despite the fact that nearly every serious climatologist in America has stated over and over again that there is no clear evidence tying human-generated greenhouse gasses to global warming, and even if there were, there is no evidence tying global warming to hurricanes in the Atlantic basin, I was opposed to the Kyoto treaty and so it is my fault.
" It is also my fault that during the administration of Bill Clinton the US Senate rejected the terms of the Kyoto protocols by a vote of 95-0. That would be zero, zilch, nada, nil, bupkis.
" As the Grand Poohbah in Charge of all TV Coverage, it is my fault that there is constant video of looters and almost none of humanitarian activities. I am the person who issued the statement: No more rescue footage UNLESS the person rescued complains about how long they had to wait or, if he shoots at the rescuers.
" And, finally, as Chairman of the National Association of Gasoline Producers it is my fault that I had the bad judgment to put so much of my drilling, refining and transportation assets in a hurricane-prone area like the Caribbean basin. What&was&I&thinking?
" If I could re-do that whole thing, I would have put all that equipment in Lake Erie and Lake Michigan. There may not be any oil there, but hurricanes are very rare.
" So. There you have it. Everything that has happened is my fault.
" Now. Shut up and help.
-- END http://mullings.com/
Post by: Sean Smith on September 03, 2005, 05:40:31 AM
Quote from: El Tejon
Hey, Rev. Jesse, why can't you use this opportunity to urge "your people" to self-reliance instead of reinforcing the racist image of Blacks as lazy welfare cases who are dependent on others?
Or just to not shoot at aid workers, hospitals, rescue helicopters, emergency supply deliveries...
Post by: The Rabbi on September 03, 2005, 04:48:20 PM
1) It happened as punishment because Amerca is an immoral place and NO typifies that.
2) It happened because America is pursuing an unjust war in Iraq
3) It happened because America sided with Sharon in removing settlements from Gaza (this was serious btw).
Any others?
Post by: Perd Hapley on September 03, 2005, 05:19:56 PM
Quote
I am interested to see all the theories why the hurricane happened:
1) It happened as punishment because Amerca is an immoral place and NO typifies that.
2) It happened because America is pursuing an unjust war in Iraq
3) It happened because America sided with Sharon in removing settlements from Gaza (this was serious btw).
Any others?
I've heard all of those just listening to talk radio, plus one guy that thought it was just for electing "this bozo" (Bush). I decided that kind of inanity was a judgement on me for my sins.1) It happened as punishment because Amerca is an immoral place and NO typifies that.
2) It happened because America is pursuing an unjust war in Iraq
3) It happened because America sided with Sharon in removing settlements from Gaza (this was serious btw).
Any others?
Rabbi, why are my fundamentalist Christian brethren more absolutist on Israeli land boundaries than American Jews seem to be? Or is that just my perception?
Post by: Warbow on September 03, 2005, 05:28:31 PM
Quote from: The Rabbi
I am interested to see all the theories why the hurricane happened:
1) It happened as punishment because Amerca is an immoral place and NO typifies that.
2) It happened because America is pursuing an unjust war in Iraq
3) It happened because America sided with Sharon in removing settlements from Gaza (this was serious btw).
Any others?
I read number 2 in an article. It was a South Korean woman who wished to remain anonymous because her supervisor was American. But, she said exactly number 2 -- she also said her coworkers agreed.
1) It happened as punishment because Amerca is an immoral place and NO typifies that.
2) It happened because America is pursuing an unjust war in Iraq
3) It happened because America sided with Sharon in removing settlements from Gaza (this was serious btw).
Any others?
Post by: The Rabbi on September 03, 2005, 05:43:26 PM
Quote
Rabbi, why are my fundamentalist Christian brethren more absolutist on Israeli land boundaries than American Jews seem to be? Or is that just my perception?
1) Ignorance.2) They're not the ones there.
To expound a little: Gaza was probably never part of the Land of Israel. Parts of Lebanon certainly were but I didnt see any gnashing of teeth when Israel wanted to withdraw.
But that is off-topic. I would be happy to post/forward an email I got from "Women in Green" that says exactly that Katrina was punishment for supporting the pullout. Unbelievable.
Post by: Perd Hapley on September 03, 2005, 07:31:23 PM
Quote from: The Rabbi
I would be happy to post/forward an email I got from "Women in Green" that says exactly that Katrina was punishment for supporting the pullout. Unbelievable.
Don't post it on my account. I've been hearing that all week from my local, off-the-deep-end Christian radio station.
Post by: Guest on September 03, 2005, 08:52:52 PM
Quote
I am interested to see all the theories why the hurricane happened:
I think its very interesting that there are theories as to "WHY" a hurricane happened.
Post by: Winston Smith on September 03, 2005, 08:58:10 PM
Post by: grampster on September 04, 2005, 08:17:58 AM
Post by: vernal45 on September 04, 2005, 10:08:03 AM
I tell ya, I am getting so tired of Liberal and Democrats. Very tired to the point that I dont care about them anyh longer, dont care to be kind to them, dont care to try to explain to them things that go over their heads. I Just dont get it, you live in an area that you know a storm like this could hit, at any time, yet you dont have an evac plan. I dont care if you poor, have no transportation, you must have a get the hell out of dodge plan. I have no sympathy for most of the folks in New Orleans.
Post by: Paddy on September 04, 2005, 10:49:26 AM
Post by: Standing Wolf on September 04, 2005, 05:54:47 PM
Quote
The 'racist' accusations you hear are their full assault mode method of justifying their ineptitude.
I'm sure it's partly just old habit, too: after all, the leftist extremists have been screeching, "Racism! Racism!" for decades. Heck, it may be the only song they still remember.
Post by: Antibubba on September 04, 2005, 08:33:56 PM
Quote
ROFL!! Are you serious?
Yes Fistful. Utterly. It would be totally win/win for Bush. The war is going poorly, the troops and equipment could be used to clean up the city, and Bush would have a truly grand gesture. Remember, most of us here are unusual; we look at policies and underlying causes. Most Americans settle for rhetoric and gestures.Bush's sin on NO isn't that he didn't initiate federal response quickly enough. It's that the actions he took appeared underwhelming compared to the scope of the crisis. If upon first realization of the immensity of it Bush had sent in 40 choppers full of Rangers or SEALS (or Treasury agents, as long as they had black rifles), andhad been down there in hipwaders passing out bottled water himself and holding up the hand of a rescue worker, or patting the head of a lost child, why, they'd be clamoring for his third term. Doesn't matter that it probably wouldn't have done much (although killing a few looters right away would not have hurt); the fact that he did something that looked significant would have gotten more good press than any actual efficient doing could've. But by responding in a standard but unassuming way, he's become the biggest race-hater since Hitler.
Not a cynic, a realist.
Post by: Winston Smith on September 04, 2005, 08:42:35 PM
Post by: Warbow on September 04, 2005, 09:43:50 PM
Quote from: Antibubba
Quote
ROFL!! Are you serious?
Yes Fistful. Utterly. It would be totally win/win for Bush. The war is going poorly, the troops and equipment could be used to clean up the city, and Bush would have a truly grand gesture. Remember, most of us here are unusual; we look at policies and underlying causes. Most Americans settle for rhetoric and gestures.Bush's sin on NO isn't that he didn't initiate federal response quickly enough. It's that the actions he took appeared underwhelming compared to the scope of the crisis. If upon first realization of the immensity of it Bush had sent in 40 choppers full of Rangers or SEALS (or Treasury agents, as long as they had black rifles), andhad been down there in hipwaders passing out bottled water himself and holding up the hand of a rescue worker, or patting the head of a lost child, why, they'd be clamoring for his third term. Doesn't matter that it probably wouldn't have done much (although killing a few looters right away would not have hurt); the fact that he did something that looked significant would have gotten more good press than any actual efficient doing could've. But by responding in a standard but unassuming way, he's become the biggest race-hater since Hitler.
Not a cynic, a realist.
Newsflash: people would be trying to place blame on Bush and accusing him of ridiculous things no matter what he did -- including your "win/win" scenario.
Post by: Perd Hapley on September 05, 2005, 04:50:53 AM
Let me understand. You don't think pulling out of Iraq now would be good, do you? Then again, you did say, "the war is going poorly," so maybe you're less connected to reality than I thought.
Warbow is correct, though. The man flew a jet onto an aircraft carrier, for crying out loud, and it has been made into a huge embarrassment for him.
Post by: Antibubba on September 05, 2005, 08:56:23 AM
And Fistful, it isn't logical, but perception often isn't. As I said, most Americans appreciate gestures more than success. In a world where true ability is minimized and entitlement is paraded, "It's the thought that counts" takes on real substance. Slick Willie understood this instinctively. Clinton apologized for slavery and got himself declared the first "Black" President. How are African-Americans now better off?
Perception still isn't reality. No, it's better than that.
Post by: grampster on September 05, 2005, 09:27:07 AM
Post by: Guest on September 05, 2005, 10:03:57 AM
Quote from: grampster
... One wonders what is going through the minds of those who don't vote? How many categories may there be in that group and what are the numbers within each catgegory?
Some are market anarchists that consider democracy an evil institution and don't want to participate in choosing those who will later tax, regulate, incarcerate, kill and rule them, and others. I would imagine that this is a small percentage, however - the Remnant, if you will. As you might guess, I am in this small group.
Post by: Bemidjiblade on September 06, 2005, 09:08:43 AM
I guess it IS Bush's fault.
The president actually expected the worthless, corrupt, democratic representatives to enact their emergency planning rather than ponitifcate and allow their constituents to die.
He should have known better.
Post by: TarpleyG on September 06, 2005, 09:55:11 AM
Greg
Post by: Felonious Monk/Fignozzle on September 06, 2005, 11:07:54 AM
The Red Cross is here and operating almost seamlessly with all manner of churches (although our area is highly segregated, both black and white churches are involved and in harmony on this) and local civic and gubmint agencies.
I just got an email from my pastor that said that they are literally turning help away because there is TOO much.
All meals have been covered for the next month.
All housing has been provided for the foreseeable future.
Now, they are looking for jobs, immediate needs re: clothing and enrolling in school, reproducing birth and legal documents, and restarting their lives.
I am a supporter of President Bush, but I'm really sick of the spectator-evaluators standing on the sidelines and spewing commentary as the rest of us live our lives.
I guess there you have it: The TeeVee Generation. What's on the tube?
Post by: El Tejon on September 06, 2005, 11:09:09 AM
The answer is obvious: Bush was in LA wrecking confusion, chaos, and evil. This allowed MS and AL (more Republican states) to access federal aid while women and minorities suffered in New Orleans.
Post by: Perd Hapley on September 06, 2005, 02:28:05 PM
Post by: Waitone on September 06, 2005, 03:06:48 PM
Well, now they got something to stick and they have to act before it slides off. Eventually it will. Eventually we will see what was going on or not going on in LA and NO. Eventually we'll hear about the rampant corruption. We'll hear about the crime organizations to whom elected officials owe allegiance. Eventually we will see how corruption on the part of elected officials determined the slow pace of local response.
Meanwhile democrats have to act fast and get the punches in early.
Post by: El Tejon on September 07, 2005, 03:14:27 AM
Post by: Antibubba on September 07, 2005, 08:39:47 AM
Sarcastic, yes. But not tongue-in-cheek. I meant every word. I wish I didn't believe it, but the evidence is overwhelming.
Post by: auschip on September 07, 2005, 10:56:08 AM
Quote
Tarp, geez, aren't you paying attention. Look, Bush may be eeevil incarnate, but he can only be in one place at a time.
The answer is obvious: Bush was in LA wrecking confusion, chaos, and evil. This allowed MS and AL (more Republican states) to access federal aid while women and minorities suffered in New Orleans.
I thought Bush was in MS & AL, but because he is stoopid he did a poor job of destroying things, while Karl Rove was responsible for NO & LA and because he is evil incarnate he did a better job of spreading destruction and chaos.
The answer is obvious: Bush was in LA wrecking confusion, chaos, and evil. This allowed MS and AL (more Republican states) to access federal aid while women and minorities suffered in New Orleans.
Post by: RocketMan on September 08, 2005, 03:26:41 PM
"Reaking" is Jinglish for "leaking".
Post by: Perd Hapley on September 08, 2005, 06:01:19 PM
fist "too-lazy-to-look-it-up" ful
Post by: Ric Allen on September 09, 2005, 11:03:48 AM
and why does that surprise you???
Post by: Felonious Monk/Fignozzle on September 09, 2005, 11:36:49 AM
I guess I had hoped that Demonrats would have laid aside low blows against the Prez, at least long enough to get people out of imminent danger and strife.
The veneer on their "compassion" for their fellow man is wearing mighty thin. Too busy placing blame to help alleviate human suffering.
I think I hate them.
Post by: Lee on September 11, 2005, 11:49:26 AM