Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: MillCreek on November 01, 2018, 10:29:42 AM
-
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/01/us/young-evangelicals-politics-midterms.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage
Instead of hearing from the old white male evangelicals, the NYT solicited input from young evangelicals. I found their comments an interesting perspective to hear, since I have virtually no contact with young evangelicals in my social or work circles.
-
I would venture to guess that the sampling is not representative. (Seeing as the sample population is "Young, Evangelical, New York Times readers")
-
I should also note the purpose of this piece- it is not about understanding conservative evangelicals, but using the young people to denounce how hateful the "old, white, male" evangelicals truly are.
-
Not one reference to an actual bible verse or doctrine.
Mostly emoting and bam! Identity politics.
Evangelicism has been converged into the social justice movement. It’s a dead man walking, it just doesn’t know it yet.
Jesus is my nicest BFF is not Christianity.
Those brothers and sisters have been led astray.
It certainly isn’t a Christian thing to do voting for Hillary, Molechs chosen one.
I think a good case can be made for Christians not voting at all but I haven’t made that leap. I have few hero’s but one that I do have is Roger Williams.
Democracy by its very nature tempts you to violate your conscience.
I understand the confusion on the left at the old guard evangelical support of Trump. There was definitely a compromising of principles and plowing forward despite the cognitive dissonance.
It’s hard to escape “the ends justify the means” and “lesser of two evils” formulations in democratic elections.
“He doesn’t hate me and my religion” was probably a huge motive.
-
I should also note the purpose of this piece- it is not about understanding conservative evangelicals, but using the young people to denounce how hateful the "old, white, male" evangelicals truly are.
One impression that I formed from the article is that for these young people, evangelical does not necessarily equal conservative. This probably causes heartburn in the people who believe that one infers the other.
-
One impression that I formed from the article is that for these young people, evangelical does not necessarily equal conservative. This probably causes heartburn in the people who believe that one infers the other.
The last Christian woman I spent considerable time with as we were determining our future compatibility was a typical evangelical.
The influence of all facets of progressivism on her was overwhelming.
The evangelical church I was attending for a spell (years actually) often had messages that were inspired by current events. I always had a sinking feeling like I was watching a Hegelian dialectic of thesis, anti-thesis, synthesis taking place in real time. It wasn’t overt apostasy but a genuine attempt to be nice and/or tolerant at the expense of the text.
Cthulhu always swims to the left.
-
There are loads of SJW young evangelicals. I was friends with a man in college (now missionary) who went off condemning Mrs. Trump on facebook about her husband's immigration policies.
"Christianity Today" magazine is chock full of SJW bull$%& and is now unreadable for me. The article "God Loves my Fat Body" is my favorite example. Yeah, I bet God loves how you wheeze when you climb a flight of stairs too. And your diabetes. They also periodically publish hand wringing anti-gun rubbish.
Wheaton College now has homosexual group.
On the other hand... during Trump's election one of our local church's sign said "God told Nehemiah to build a wall." >:D
-
Not this stuff again. "Evangelicalism" is a very broad term, and few people know what it means, or where it comes from. Yes, of course, the toxic effects of current-day American culture have dumbed down and degraded young people within the Evangelical demographic, as it has dumbed down and degraded every other group, including this internet forum. I mean, good thing no Catholics have fallen short of their historic doctrines and values, right?
-
I have friends who live across town from me and who attend the Evangelical Free Church that's conveniently directly across the street from their house. They have six kids, ranging in age from 25 to 7. The two oldest daughters are, I think about 22 and 19. The husband mentioned to me just the other day that they hadn't given much thought to letting the kids attend the local public high school. It has a good [academic] reputation, and gets kids into good colleges.
Then came the day one of the daughters came home and said something to the effect of, "There's nothing wrong with abortion." From that point on, the parents began paying a lot more attention to what their children were being taught brainwashed to believe.
The two youngest -- ages 12 and 7 -- are being home schooled.
-
One person's teaching is another person's brainwashing is another person's religious instruction.
-
One person's teaching is another person's brainwashing is another person's religious instruction.
I completely agree that the teachers in the public school are mostly providing religious training. Well said.
-
Evangelicalism (as difficult to pin down as that may be) is fad ridden. Right now, "wokeness" is one of the big new things. One, I think, with a huge potential for damage.
There's a couple books from this past decade, Ross Douthat's Bad Religion: How We Became A Nation of Heretics (https://www.amazon.com/Bad-Religion-Became-Nation-Heretics/dp/143917833X/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1541097868&sr=8-2&keywords=bad+religion), and Darryl Hart's From Billy Graham to Sarah Palin: Evangelicals and the Betrayal of American Conservatism (https://www.amazon.com/Billy-Graham-Sarah-Palin-Evangelicals/dp/080286628X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1541097837&sr=8-1&keywords=from+billy+graham+to+sarah+palin), that I found depressing and difficult to get through. It's depressing because I remember a lot of what these authors write about. Page after page of the latest big thing to hit American Christianity, that became last year's big thing, then forgotten.
-
The typical school day at a madrassa in Algeria: teaching, brainwashing or religious instruction?
Sunday school at Our Savior Catholic church: teaching, brainwashing or religious instruction?
Private school at the White Aryans Are The Best compound: teaching, brainwashing or religious instruction?
I suspect that depending on your cultural background and beliefs, the answers will vary.
-
I have friends who live across town from me and who attend the Evangelical Free Church that's conveniently directly across the street from their house. They have six kids, ranging in age from 25 to 7. The two oldest daughters are, I think about 22 and 19. The husband mentioned to me just the other day that they hadn't given much thought to letting the kids attend the local public high school. It has a good [academic] reputation, and gets kids into good colleges.
Then came the day one of the daughters came home and said something to the effect of, "There's nothing wrong with abortion." From that point on, the parents began paying a lot more attention to what their children were being taught brainwashed to believe.
The two youngest -- ages 12 and 7 -- are being home schooled.
My daughter's kids (4 of them) are age 1 to 8. They're home schooling. I thoroughly approve of what they're doing.
-
I thought Fistful made an interesting point. I wonder if there is a commonly accepted definition of evangelical.
-
I thought Fistful made an interesting point. I wonder if there is a commonly accepted definition of evangelical.
On that note, I saw that one of the "young evangelicals" indicated he went to a Pentecostal church and I had always understood Pentecostals to be a separate category from Evangelicals.
-
I thought Fistful made an interesting point. I wonder if there is a commonly accepted definition of evangelical.
Not really, and the lack of such has been noted a bunch "in house".
-
My daughter has become a Bernie-Bro. She's very much a evangelical SJW. Fortunately, she runs an orphanage in Kumasi, Ghana, and is not registered to vote in the US (at least in Illinois, I checked as part of one of the practices during Election Judge training.)
And yes, the church she is sponsored by definitely leans left. In fact, Wheaton used to be a solidly conservative R city, but last 10+ years have seen the rise of the SJW Evangelicals and other Christians to the point where it's not as solid as it used to be.
-
On that note, I saw that one of the "young evangelicals" indicated he went to a Pentecostal church and I had always understood Pentecostals to be a separate category from Evangelicals.
From the perspective of I like to learn something every day, and I had not the faintest idea about this, I found this link that explains it in terms simple enough for me to understand:
http://www.bible-teaching-about.com/evangelicalandpentecostal.html
-
I'll just leave this here.
(https://preview.ibb.co/gzXB50/fair-methodist.jpg) (https://ibb.co/j5iJk0)
That guy was at our county fair and the shirt was awful enough that I grabbed a picture. I didn't know that the Methodists were far left radicals.
-
To my great shame, my daughter has become a Bernie-Bro. She's very much a evangelical SJW. Fortunately, she runs an orphanage in Kumasi, Ghana, and is not registered to vote in the US (at least in Illinois, I checked as part of one of the practices during Election Judge training.)
I am assuming your daughter knows Bernie supports abortion to six months gestation?
-
That guy was at our county fair and the shirt was awful enough that I grabbed a picture. I didn't know that the Methodists were far left radicals.
"nonproliferation of weapons migrants and refugees"
I can support 2/3 of that.
-
David French doesn't always know what he's talking about, but in areas of faith he tends to do pretty well.
In reality, “young Evangelicals” may not ultimately be Evangelicals at all. They might more accurately be defined as young people from an Evangelical background who are growing in their own faith. And as they grow, they often face the twin temptations their parents faced: the temptation of faith and the temptation of tribe.
Each generation of young Christians has to face the reality that biblical teaching conflicts decisively with contemporary secular morality. That conflict is often especially acute in the area of sexual morality. Moreover, the price of social acceptance is often theological compromise. Yes, people in good faith reach contrary positions on the authority and meaning of individual scriptures, but one would have to be willfully blind to deny the persistent pressure toward “inclusivity” and the irrebuttable presumption of moral superiority inherent to secular progressive ethics.
-
That guy was at our county fair and the shirt was awful enough that I grabbed a picture. I didn't know that the Methodists were far left radicals.
This is probably an oversimplification, but any denomination with "United" in its name is going to be mostly leftist SJW heresy.
-
This is probably an oversimplification, but any denomination with "United" in its name is going to be mostly leftist SJW heresy.
You're not wrong, the other big source of "christian" (removed, not polite) is the UCC. They've never met an SJW thing they didn't love. never thought of the common "united" part, but it works.
"nonproliferation of weapons migrants and refugees"
I can support 2/3 of that.
Right? hahah.
-
Yep, there are numerous churches around here that are bending over backwards to welcome refugees and get them housing, medical care, and any and all freebies the state and feds give out.
I just wonder if anyone every asks the refugees if they (and their religion and/or country) would do the same for us, if the situation were reversed. Boy, I bet they would find the answer enlightening...
-
Apparently the separation of church and state doesn’t apply when it concerns progressive causes.
Nobody seems to mind the legislation of morality when it is the moral system of the left being enshrined in law.
It’s not even hyperbole to say the radical egalitarianism of the left is destroying western civilization.
I doubt I’ll be around to see the mousetopia that takes its place.
-
Apparently the separation of church and state doesn’t apply when it concerns progressive causes.
Nobody seems to mind the legislation of morality when it is the moral system of the left being enshrined in law.
Of course.
-
From the perspective of I like to learn something every day, and I had not the faintest idea about this, I found this link that explains it in terms simple enough for me to understand:
http://www.bible-teaching-about.com/evangelicalandpentecostal.html
I think the author is ill-informed. Emphasizing or downplaying "tongues" or miracles cannot make someone more or less evangelical. The author doesn't seem to understand the term, or why it came into use.
By evangelical what people in the United States generally mean refers to those Christians who believe in the essentials of the historic Christian Faith. That would be things such as the inerrancy and authority of the Bible (which is probably the most important), Diety and virgin birth of Jesus Christ along with His death, burial and resurrection, ascension to heaven, and His return. They believe in salvation by faith, the resurrection of the Christian’s body, and the reality of Satan, angels, heaven and hell.
What she's describing here is really a "Christian," although Catholic Christians might differ somewhat on "salvation by faith." "Fundamentalist" or "conservative" would also be a better term for what she's describing.
The term "Evangelical" makes sense, if you think of Evangelicals as putting a greater emphasis on the individual believer, and his relationship to God; and less emphasis on the believer as a member of a church, whose relationship to God is heavily dependent on the formal, corporate worship and life of the church.
I'm going to make some overly simplistic statements, to show the contrast between Evangelicals and more traditional groups, hopefully explaining what "Evangelicalism" came to mean.
Traditionally, historically, Catholics and some Protestant groups "evangelized" by baptizing infants, catechizing young children, and then through confirmation, first communion, and other rites by which individual believers were taught faith by the regular worship and rituals of the church. The Evangelical groups that came to the fore during the "Great Awakening" and similar movements, differed by emphasizing (you guessed it) evangelism. That is, preaching about the need for repentance, and forgiveness of sins through faith in Jesus. Or through small-group meetings (the early Methodists), and one-on-one discussions. Their emphasis was on the individual finding faith in God as an individual; not by simply following along with the rituals of the church.
As I said, the above is oversimplified. To under-simplify, Evangelical churches still catechize(d) children, and Catholics also preach(ed) about repentance and faith in Christ. Evangelicalism doesn't mean that church is unimportant, nor am I saying that Catholicism or conservative Lutheranism is just about being a faceless cog in the machinery of the church. But there is a difference in emphasis. Evangelicalism is marked by a greater emphasis on you - yes, you there - having a personal relationship with Christ. Non-evangelical Christianity puts greater emphasis on the institution.
I should add, "Evangelicalism" is only a buzz-word today because it is such a big chunk of American Christianity. It includes nearly every church that isn't Catholic, Lutheran, Orthodox, Anglican, or a few others; not to mention some churches in the aforementioned groups.
I should also add, though I'm excluding Lutherans, "Evangelical" was a term used to describe the early Lutherans. That's a different sense of the word, though.
-
I just wonder if anyone every asks the refugees if they (and their religion and/or country) would do the same for us, if the situation were reversed. Boy, I bet they would find the answer enlightening...
I am not Christian, but it's my understanding that whether or not the good works would be reciprocated doesn't really play into the decision to do good works.
-
I should add, "Evangelicalism" is only a buzz-word today because it is such a big chunk of American Christianity. It includes nearly every church that isn't Catholic, Lutheran, Orthodox, Anglican, or a few others; not to mention some churches in the aforementioned groups.
After my late wife finally parted company with the Roman Catholic faith of her birth (and most of her adult life) when the priest of the RC church we attended was arrested for having embezzled over $1 million from the parish (most of which went to support his homosexual lover in another city), we attended an Episcopal church. She liked it because the mass was virtually identical to the Catholic mass, so she felt comfortable with it, and they gave Holt Communion every week. I mention it because the Episcopal Church makes A Big Deal out of the fact that they are (according to them) an evangelical church.
-
This is probably an oversimplification, but any denomination with "United" in its name is going to be mostly leftist SJW heresy.
Why would that be?
-
Not one reference to an actual bible verse or doctrine.
Mostly emoting and bam! Identity politics.
Evangelicism has been converged into the social justice movement. It’s a dead man walking, it just doesn’t know it yet.
Jesus is my nicest BFF is not Christianity.
Those brothers and sisters have been led astray.
It certainly isn’t a Christian thing to do voting for Hillary, Molechs chosen one.
I think a good case can be made for Christians not voting at all but I haven’t made that leap. I have few hero’s but one that I do have is Roger Williams.
Democracy by its very nature tempts you to violate your conscience.
I understand the confusion on the left at the old guard evangelical support of Trump. There was definitely a compromising of principles and plowing forward despite the cognitive dissonance.
It’s hard to escape “the ends justify the means” and “lesser of two evils” formulations in democratic elections.
“He doesn’t hate me and my religion” was probably a huge motive.
I agree with all of this.
-
Why would that be?
I don't know. Playing off "Unitarian" maybe? When the denominations split up (whenever that was) the liberals took the branch with the word United. UCC, ULCA, UPCI (actually I don't know much about the United Pentecostals), UMC... That's all I can think of. Perhaps they didn't start out liberal, but they have top-down governance and the liberals took over the leadership.
One thing I like about SBC is they are bottom-up, so it would be almost impossible for SJW heretics to take over.
-
Why would that be?
You'd have to dig into the history. My suspicion is, liberal* churches having less doctrinal reasons to be apart, conglomerate.
(*liberal in the sense mean by J. Gresham Machen in his "Christianity and Liberalism" from the '20s. This stuff's been going on for a long time.)
-
You'd have to dig into the history. My suspicion is, liberal* churches having less doctrinal reasons to be apart, conglomerate.
(*liberal in the sense mean by J. Gresham Machen in his "Christianity and Liberalism" from the '20s. This stuff's been going on for a long time.)
That theory makes a lot of sense.
-
The ecumenical movement and WWC are attempts at Christian unity that set aside a lot of doctrinal differences.
The word “United” brings that movement and organization into the mind of many conservative Christians.
I’m in favor of Christian unity but it seems many of the unity movements have promoting Marxism or socialism as their primary mission.
It’s the old dilemma of being seen as a hard hearted mean conservative because I oppose their legislative goals.
-
One thing I like about SBC is they are bottom-up, so it would be almost impossible for SJW heretics to take over.
Some time ago, the Southern Baptist Convention used to be pretty nasty. It was originally founded in opposition to the northern Baptists church's refusal to hire slave owners as missionaries.
The SBC even came out supporting Roe v. Wade at the time it was decided!!!
Fortunately, they have improved since then:
http://www.bpnews.net/44055/how-southern-baptists-became-prolife
-
One person's teaching is another person's brainwashing is another person's religious instruction.
What is truth?
- Pontius Pilate
When you choose not to decide you still have made a choice.
- Neil Peart