Author Topic: The Coming War Between TN and GA  (Read 3909 times)

RadioFreeSeaLab

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The Coming War Between TN and GA
« on: February 08, 2008, 07:41:39 AM »
Georgia wants to annex a portion of Tennessee.

http://tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080208/NEWS0201/802080435
Quote
In 1993, Joel J. Kyle and his wife, Juanita, moved just over the Georgia border to Tennessee  and Joel Kyle vowed never to cross it again.

Now, some Georgia lawmakers want the border to cross him, in a manner of speaking.
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A resolution in Georgia's legislature proposes to move the Tennessee-Georgia boundary about a mile to the north of where it now lies, which could put Kyle right back into the state he left 15 years ago.

The proposal elicited instant ridicule from residents of the area on Thursday, as well as tongue-in-cheek saber rattling from Tennessee lawmakers.

One state senator offered to settle the issue with a football game. Another suggested floating an armada of University of Tennessee fans down the Tennessee River to defend the state's territory.

But behind the amusement is a serious issue that has bedeviled the Southeast: access to water. If the border is redrawn, the new state line would fall across Nickajack Reservoir. That would allow parched Georgians to tap into the waters of the dammed Tennessee River.
Issue draws criticism

Kyle, 69, said he has no desire to be annexed by Georgia, which he gladly departed because of its taxes, and hopes the idea is "just a pipe dream."

"If it ever came to that, I would probably move," he said. "I've got seven acres here, and we're set up pretty well, but I wouldn't ever want to be in the state of Georgia again, to be honest with you."

Georgia has been battling Florida and Alabama in federal court for about 18 years over water rights. Last summer, Lake Lanier, which supplies Atlanta's water, shriveled to historic lows.

The resolution, which has passed early hurdles but has not received final passage, claims that the boundary was erroneously surveyed in 1818 and that Georgia has never accepted it. The resolution calls for the creation of a "Georgia-Tennessee Boundary Line Commission" that would perform joint surveys and change the line to the "definite and true" boundary line: exactly following the 35th parallel.

"We're not talking about sucking it dry," said Rep. Harry Geisinger, a Republican who sponsored the resolution in the Georgia House. "We're talking about augmenting some water needs, and as you know, the Tennessee has got plenty of water in it."

Gil Rogers, a staff attorney at the Southern Environmental Law Center, said the proposal was the wrong approach to water woes. Lawmakers, he said, should concentrate on conservation and sustainable development.

"It's a matter of how we grow and planning ahead so we're not reduced to making these propositions about accessing rivers that are hundreds of miles away," he said.

State Sen. Andy Berke, a Chattanooga Democrat, took the Senate floor and jokingly proposed a winner-take-all wrestling match or football game.

Afterward, he was more circumspect, saying that there is a serious issue at hand about natural resources, planning and development, and calling the Georgia proposal an "irresponsible land-grab."

"I think it is more productive to be up front about the future of water use," he said, "rather than disguising the intentions with discussions of grabbing our state's land."

Boomhauer

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Re: The Coming War Between TN and GA
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2008, 07:43:15 AM »
GA is pretty damned desperate for water...



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OTOH, there wouldn't be a tweeker left in Georgia...

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Fly320s

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Re: The Coming War Between TN and GA
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2008, 09:29:10 AM »
I'm sure TN would sell GA water... for the right price.  grin
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Scout26

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Re: The Coming War Between TN and GA
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2008, 10:34:21 AM »
Sounds like Atlanta is overdue for another torching........
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El Tejon

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Re: The Coming War Between TN and GA
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2008, 12:09:54 PM »
We need to send water down south.  Indiana has more than its share.

War?  No, just a Supreme Court case like the Indiana v. Kentucky case.
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seeker_two

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Re: The Coming War Between TN and GA
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2008, 12:11:19 PM »
Opryland vs. Dixieland......let the banjos duel.....
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SomeKid

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Re: The Coming War Between TN and GA
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2008, 12:23:04 PM »
El T, details on that case?

Regardless, if GA goes to the SCOTUS, and they support Georgia, I hope we fight over it. They did not make good infrastructure, they suffered. Now they just want to take something. I don't much go for that.

I do not live in the area they want, but if I did the first GA cop who tries to enforce GA laws on me would probably be shot. Then I would be killed. Still, it would feel good to put one of those generally heavy handed GSP pricks down.

MrRezister

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Re: The Coming War Between TN and GA
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2008, 12:59:53 PM »
Georgia goes to war with Tennessee.  Who wins?

Everybody else!

I can laugh, I live in Arkansas. 
We might try to annex states that have shoes.
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Scout26

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Re: The Coming War Between TN and GA
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2008, 01:16:58 PM »
Quote
We need to send water down south. Indiana has more than its share.

I saw that on the weather channel last night. Something about the Tippacanoe being 17 feet above flood stage.

Have you traded in your lawyer suit for scuba gear?? 
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

Scout26

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Re: The Coming War Between TN and GA
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2008, 01:25:40 PM »
Before GA invades TN, they might want to make sure they don't get attacked from behind and make sure they have a good treaty/relationship with FL.

http://www.usahistory.com/wars/jenkins.htm
Quote
The other cause of the war was the continued dispute over the boundary of Spanish Florida in relation to Georgia. As soon as war was declared, Gov. James Edward Oglethorpe called on the citizens of Georgia and South Carolina to join in an invasion of Florida. The Spanish retaliated by attempting to invade those colonies by sea.

The War of Jenkins' Ear (1739-1742) continued with an invasion of Florida led by Gov. Oglethope of Georgia. He was protected on the west from the French by friendly Indians. He captured forts San Francisco de Pupo and Picolata on the San Juan River. From May to July he besieged St. Augustine, but broke off the attack when his rear guard was threatened by the Spanish.

In the Battle of Bloody Marsh on St. Simons Island, one of the Sea Islands off the southeast coast of Georgia, the Spanish attacked Fort Frederica, which had been constructed by Gov. Oglethorpe in 1736 to protect the colony. The Spanish were repulsed in a bloody battle that was a decisive engagement of the War of Jenkins' Ear.



Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

mfree

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Re: The Coming War Between TN and GA
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2008, 08:24:51 PM »
the REAL question is if the 1818 survey is even valid anymore since both states left and rejoined the United States... and would the border as it stood have been cemented at the time of readmission.

And, Georgia readmitted last (1870!) so I figure any claims were lost...

By the way, if GA siezes that land, the Battle of Athens will look like a sneeze.

EDIT:

"Something about the Tippacanoe being 17 feet above flood stage."

... where's that rat Tyler? I'm sure he's behind it...

Teknoid

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Re: The Coming War Between TN and GA
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2008, 05:07:48 AM »
Maybe they should look into this, instead of a land grab:

http://www.water-technology.net/projects/israel/

Of course, the rest of us would end up footing the bill. Desalination isn't cheap ($250m, in the example above), but it beats going thirsty. They'd spend that much in court, probably.

El Tejon

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Re: The Coming War Between TN and GA
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2008, 07:00:54 AM »
All the rivers here are out of their banks, Scout.  The Tippecanoe River, north of me, is a mess.  I live downtown Lafayette and the Wabash has taken over a park in West Lafayette.  The kayakers and jet skiers are having a blast though (don't see how they do it).

West Lafayette needs a levee there.  Everytime it floods it takes away more of the sand there.

Lafayette is safe.  The city has spent a bunch over the years on combatting the river and we are now building more tunnels to carry away water and ensure sewage does not wash into the river.  Wish we could dredge the river to improve the water flow.
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El Tejon

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Re: The Coming War Between TN and GA
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2008, 07:11:47 AM »
Somekid, Indiana and Kentucky have filed suits against each other just like neighbors attempting to fix a boundary line.  Indeed, many states have ended up in the Supreme Court with boundary disputes.  The Constitution recognized this possibility and sent all the state v. state cases there.

The Indiana-Kentucky boundary is codified in Indiana law by Indiana v. Kentucky, 163 U.S. 520 (1896).  There are several other IN/KY cases. 
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K Frame

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Re: The Coming War Between TN and GA
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2008, 08:25:46 AM »
Maryland and Virginia spent a number of years fighting over water rights to the Potomac River in Northern Virginia.

The original land grants from Charles I (IIRC) gave Maryland the entire river.

Virginia wanted to put a new water collection crib in the middle of the river to get better quality water. Maryland has had serious problems with the pace of development in Virginia over the years, and refused to allow the new crib.

It went back and forth in the courts for a number of years and was finally put before a special master for a binding decision. The ruling was in Virginia's favor.

Back in the 1930s, I believe, Nevada and Arizona got into a pretty nasty squabble over water rights. Nevada's governor went as far as attempting to call out the National Guard but was quashed by the Roosevelt Administration.

The chances of one state being allowed to redraw its boundaries with another state via legislation or even a hostile court case are pretty much zero.
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Antibubba

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Re: The Coming War Between TN and GA
« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2008, 06:09:03 PM »
Atlantans have all the water they need, but they waste it all by breathing it in!  And cursing it, and running up their power bills with 6+ months of A/C.  There used to be a company called "Skywell" that pulled water right out of the air.
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Bigjake

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Re: The Coming War Between TN and GA
« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2008, 06:12:35 PM »
Quote

"Something about the Tippacanoe being 17 feet above flood stage."

... where's that rat Tyler? I'm sure he's behind it...
 


I love the grasp of History SOME of the forum members here have....

Perd Hapley

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Re: The Coming War Between TN and GA
« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2008, 07:16:36 PM »
We might try to annex states that have shoes.

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K Frame

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Re: The Coming War Between TN and GA
« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2008, 07:54:59 PM »
"There used to be a company called "Skywell" that pulled water right out of the air."

They relocated to my basement.

During the worst parts of summer I can pull upwards 40 pints of water a day out of the air in my basement.
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SomeKid

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Re: The Coming War Between TN and GA
« Reply #19 on: February 09, 2008, 08:28:17 PM »
Is Skywell just a super dehumidifier?

Gewehr98

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Re: The Coming War Between TN and GA
« Reply #20 on: February 09, 2008, 08:34:24 PM »
Speaking of water where it ain't supposed to be...

My upstairs toilet tank in the master bathroom was sweating water today.  The house temp is all of about 71 degrees, and I could see exactly what the level of the water in the tank was by looking at the condensation on the exterior.

The only thing I could figure was that the water was darned cold inside.   shocked
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grampster

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Re: The Coming War Between TN and GA
« Reply #21 on: February 10, 2008, 06:53:53 AM »
Gewehr,
What's it doing on your side of the pond.  We have steady high winds and it's 10 below by both of my outside thermometers.  I have no idea what the wind chill is, but going outside is not a good choice.  Maybe 15-30 below wind chill.
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Scout26

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Re: The Coming War Between TN and GA
« Reply #22 on: February 10, 2008, 09:50:43 AM »
El T,

IIRC, back when I was in hi schrul (early '80's) there was a court case going on involving the KY/IN border.  Something about the border being the middle of the Ohio River, but since it keeps changing width and location, one state or the other was saying that the now had "land" on the other side.   Anyway our Social Studies teacher got us all excited about the opportunity to go kick some southern butt again.
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

Teknoid

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Re: The Coming War Between TN and GA
« Reply #23 on: February 10, 2008, 10:32:20 AM »
El T,

IIRC, back when I was in hi schrul (early '80's) there was a court case going on involving the KY/IN border.  Something about the border being the middle of the Ohio River, but since it keeps changing width and location, one state or the other was saying that the now had "land" on the other side.   Anyway our Social Studies teacher got us all excited about the opportunity to go kick some southern butt again.



Remember the resolution? I do. Kentucky won, and has jurisdiction on the Ohio River to the low-water mark on the Indiana side. We had the same argument with Virginia and Ohio. We won those, too. The boundary was stated as "the low water mark on the northern side" in 1792, and still stands. Don't mess with the Bluegrass...