Post by: Smith on September 13, 2005, 03:12:36 PM
I'm just going to putt around my neighborhood for a while on it...I'm sure I'm not ready to trek out into most roads yet. I'm ordering a helmet, a jacket, and maybe pants today. I sure hope I remember what I learned at the MSF class in May!
Post by: cfabe on September 13, 2005, 03:29:53 PM
A ninja 500 is a good learners bike. I just picked up a ninja 250. Much better beginners bike than the CB650 I had for a few months a couple years ago. Mine is a 1998 that I picked up for $1650. It had been down before, and was a little banged up cosemtically. Yours is probably a good deal too, but you might be upset when you lay it down the first time and bang it up.
Good luck, and stay safe out there!
Post by: CatsDieNow on September 14, 2005, 10:32:20 AM
Best bet is to find a nearby empty parking lot and practice those MSF drills until 45MPH doesn't feel so scary.
Definitely order gloves too. Boots if you have the cash.
http://www.newenough.com/ is a great place for cheap, quality street gear. Fantastic customer service.
Post by: Strings on September 14, 2005, 12:31:28 PM
Post by: Smith on September 15, 2005, 03:29:32 PM
Post by: Guest on September 15, 2005, 11:05:45 PM
Quote from: Smith
Wow, what gives? I thought there were a lot of cycle folk here.
The only question you asked is what we think of the EX500 and cfabe pretty much summed it up. Its an excellent bike by any measure, and definatly a good bike to start with.The only other thing to add is to stay safe and take it easy, i dont realy think you need anyone to tell you that though
I would second the suggestion to get some good gloves, you will need them in generally to keep your hands from freezing up on you, and if you get in a wreck you will be glad to have them as protective gear, you dont want to scrape all the meat off your hands. Also, dont ride it untill you get your helmet and the rest of your gear. It doesnt matter how slow you are moving, just knocking your head on a drop is enough to turn you into a slobbering vegitable.
Post by: Smith on September 16, 2005, 01:37:39 AM
Post by: ...has left the building. on September 16, 2005, 03:29:26 AM
Post by: CatsDieNow on September 16, 2005, 03:57:45 AM
(Those poser frat boys may have cooler bikes than you, but see who gets to the bottom of the levee cloverleaf first. I'll bet you can pass them in the twisties.) I went with the 500 because everything in DFW is connected by interstate highways and I didn't want to have to wind the RPM's up so high to do 75mph.
Post by: bountyhunter on September 16, 2005, 02:11:28 PM
Quote from: Smith
I finally found a bike at a time I could afford it. I found a 2001 Ninja 500 with 551 miles on it for $3200. It really looks showroom perfect. I think I got a pretty good deal, what do you guys think?
I'm just going to putt around my neighborhood for a while on it...I'm sure I'm not ready to trek out into most roads yet. I'm ordering a helmet, a jacket, and maybe pants today. I sure hope I remember what I learned at the MSF class in May!
Sounds like a great deal.I'm just going to putt around my neighborhood for a while on it...I'm sure I'm not ready to trek out into most roads yet. I'm ordering a helmet, a jacket, and maybe pants today. I sure hope I remember what I learned at the MSF class in May!
BTW, the time period where you will be most likely to kill yourself is about 3 months to one year after you get riding. That is the zone where people start to think they know what they are doing.....and haven't gotten smart enough to be sufficiently afraid.
Good Luck (been riding 40 years, last 25 on a KZ-750)
Guide for beginning riders:
1) Paranoia is your friend
2) Other drivers are far stupider than you could ever imagine.
3) Anything bad that CAN happen, WILL happen.
4) The ground is harder than you will believe.
5) That skin takes less than 1 second to transfer to the pavement and about 8 weeks to regrow.
6) The best possible scenario always involves maximum distance between you and everybody else.
7) The advantages of that "handicapped" parking placard do NOT outweigh the disadvantages that come with it.
Nothing is worth dying for.
Post by: ...has left the building. on September 16, 2005, 02:53:37 PM
Quote from: CatsDieNow
Dan, put your foot back on the peg where it belongs. (Those poser frat boys may have cooler bikes than you, but see who gets to the bottom of the levee cloverleaf first. I'll bet you can pass them in the twisties.)
I went with the 500 because everything in DFW is connected by interstate highways and I didn't want to have to wind the RPM's up so high to do 75mph.
haha! It is on the peg! And yeah the poser frat guys crack me up. I saw one on a GSX-R 600 with underfairing LEDs go around that curve on State Street (the weird one when you're headed east near the grad house)...I looked back in my mirror and didn't see him anymore so I slowed down and waited for him to pass. Well he had chicken strips that were at least 2.5" on each side lol! The 500 you have is a sweet bike! I'm getting a 636 for next year's riding season...I can't wait!
(Those poser frat boys may have cooler bikes than you, but see who gets to the bottom of the levee cloverleaf first. I'll bet you can pass them in the twisties.) I went with the 500 because everything in DFW is connected by interstate highways and I didn't want to have to wind the RPM's up so high to do 75mph.
Post by: atek3 on September 18, 2005, 01:57:31 PM
Quote from: Daniel Flory
Quote from: CatsDieNow
Dan, put your foot back on the peg where it belongs. (Those poser frat boys may have cooler bikes than you, but see who gets to the bottom of the levee cloverleaf first. I'll bet you can pass them in the twisties.)
I went with the 500 because everything in DFW is connected by interstate highways and I didn't want to have to wind the RPM's up so high to do 75mph.
haha! It is on the peg! And yeah the poser frat guys crack me up. I saw one on a GSX-R 600 with underfairing LEDs go around that curve on State Street (the weird one when you're headed east near the grad house)...I looked back in my mirror and didn't see him anymore so I slowed down and waited for him to pass. Well he had chicken strips that were at least 2.5" on each side lol! The 500 you have is a sweet bike! I'm getting a 636 for next year's riding season...I can't wait! (Those poser frat boys may have cooler bikes than you, but see who gets to the bottom of the levee cloverleaf first. I'll bet you can pass them in the twisties.) I went with the 500 because everything in DFW is connected by interstate highways and I didn't want to have to wind the RPM's up so high to do 75mph.
atek3
Post by: atek3 on September 18, 2005, 02:00:13 PM
I was dragging toe and peg too until I learned to change my body position. By shifting your bum about half way off the seat and moving your upper body so your spine is still parallel to the bike, you should start to drag knee before toe. It took a while to get used to, but hanging off lets you keep the bike more vertical while still carrying the same corner speed.
atek3
Post by: ...has left the building. on September 18, 2005, 03:05:28 PM
I'll have to try that but I don't have any knee pucks...and I'll probably buy a video explaining how to do it before I try. Any suggestions? And Triumphs do indeed look cool but I want to go Japanese for now. I could see a Speed Triple in my distant future though...
Post by: atek3 on September 18, 2005, 03:16:11 PM
just my 2 cents.
atek3
*by this I mean, under strong cornering forces, the smallest amount of gravel, oil, tar snake, squirrel guts, etc. can cause you to instantly lose traction and go down. Hopefully wearing protecting gear, you come out okay, but it's far better to keep the rubber side down in the first place
Post by: ...has left the building. on September 18, 2005, 03:23:50 PM
How is the SV treating you by the way? I'm also considering getting an SV-650S instead of the 636...
Post by: saxman357 on September 18, 2005, 03:47:59 PM
Quote from: atek3
*by this I mean, under strong cornering forces, the smallest amount of gravel, oil, tar snake, squirrel guts, etc. can cause you to instantly lose traction and go down. Hopefully wearing protecting gear, you come out okay, but it's far better to keep the rubber side down in the first place
Or start to go down and then high-side flip the bike in the other direction when the rear tire slides out and catches again. Just like I did a few months ago. Got a busted helmet, injured back, bruised ribs and a totalled bike out of it. Cold tires and hard cornering don't mix - adding gravel only makes it worse.BTW, if you're dragging your boots in the corners make sure you have the balls of your feet on the pegs, not your arches. That should give you the extra bit of ground clearance to make the peg feelers touch down first. Obviously you don't want to push it any further past that point.
As for hanging *slightly* off the bike, there's nothing squidly about it - by shifting your weight thus, you help conserve that all-important traction. If you're touching your knee down on the street though, you're taking it a bit too far IMO.
Post by: atek3 on September 18, 2005, 05:19:40 PM
I love it, thought it depends on what you want out of a bike. If you want a pure track bike, get the 636. If you want a street bike that does well on the track, get an SV. The SV-650S has a lot of torque down low compared to an inline 4, but doesn't have the screaming top end power of an i4 either. The SV will be more forgiving on the track and the street. When you feel you've outgrown the abilities of the stock SV (which is very tough anyway), you can always sell the front end and rear shock and put on a revalved GSXR front end and penske, fox, or hagon rear shock. If money is a consideration, you can find screaming deals on SV's people have already set up for the track, with the suspension mod's done for you.
atek3
Post by: atek3 on September 18, 2005, 05:23:48 PM
Quote from: saxman357
Or start to go down and then high-side flip the bike in the other direction when the rear tire slides out and catches again. Just like I did a few months ago. Got a busted helmet, injured back, bruised ribs and a totalled bike out of it. Cold tires and hard cornering don't mix - adding gravel only makes it worse.
I lost the front end and lowsided at turn 5 at thunderhill. I walked away with a sprained finger. My bike though, slid on the ground and then flipped, breaking bits on both sides 
350 in parts (not including cowling, which is still a bit banged up)Cheap lesson on when it's time to pack it up at the track. (if you're tired and exhausted, hit the pits, a trashed bike isn't worth another lap or two, NB: this only applies to track days)
atek3
Post by: CatsDieNow on September 19, 2005, 04:31:36 AM
Here in the metroplex, it is a road hazard bonanza everywhere you look. Every truck leaks sludge and oil. Raised road tape, crowned roads, huge metal bumps to divide lanes, metal construction plates (these suck when wet)...and my personal favorite: I can't be bothered to tie down my load in the truck bed.
Do NOT, under any circumstances, follow a truck where there is any potential for the load to come loose, including gravel trucks. I spent a scary 5 seconds yesterday evening swerving and dodging suitcases, clothes and other crap that fell out of a pickup about 4 cars in front of me. I've also seen (via the bernoulli principle) matresses and drywall fly out, but I was not directly behind those fools.
What was I saying? Oh, yes...Daniel, for serious kneedragging, get thee to a track day where the environmental factor is controlled and the paramedics are standing by.
http://www.motorcycleridesinamerica.com/indiana_track_day_schedule.htm
And I want one of these, the 650R at the bottom of the page, which will be a Kawa competetor for the SV:
http://www.kawasaki.ca/2006_model_update_ninja.html Note the ZX-14 as well.
Post by: atek3 on September 19, 2005, 05:42:26 AM
big bore parallel twin, how wierd.
atek3
Post by: ...has left the building. on September 19, 2005, 09:29:41 AM
Post by: CatsDieNow on September 19, 2005, 10:02:46 AM
Oh, and one more for the rant list - truck retread. Those rubber gators will really bite you, took a $1200 bite out of my Camaro a couple years ago.
Basically, just avoid trucks and semis. The wind shear as you pass them can get you too.
Post by: Guest on September 21, 2005, 10:15:30 PM
OK. Going as far back as 1988 or so, there's been two bikes that are stable, "fast enough" to at least start with, don't have any bad handling habits and go like gangbusters. The Suzuki GS500 parallel twin and the Kawi EX500.
Kawi updated the EX500 slightly over the years - later models with the 17" front rim are more desirable, and that's what you're looking at.
The EX has one flaw: the engine is a nice high-tech four-valve-per-cylinder mill, watercooled, basically the old Ninja 1000 motor "sawn in half" (and even shares some valvetrain/piston/rod parts I think?) BUT they need a valve adjustment every 5,000 - 6,000 miles if I recall right. And unfortunately it's a nasty shim-and-bucket setup that's difficult to do yourself. It'll probably run a couple hundred each time.
The GS500 had a two-valve-per-cyliner setup with screw-adjust valves. They needed looking at every 3,000 or so miles but were an easy home job.
Suzuki basically never changed the GS500 from '88 to 2004. I kid you not, other than paint and minor cosmetic stuff, same bike. If you're on a budget these are a GREAT way to start.
The SV650 is Suzuki's more modern replacement for the old GS in the same role - sporty but with smooth stable handling and power that hits in a controllable fashion.
See...the more cylinders you have, the more power you'll get for the same displacement. A one-cylinder 600 will have less than a third the power of a four-cylinder 600. The problem with most of the four-bangers is that the power hits "only at the top end" and comes on all of a sudden...you'll gas it in mid corner, it'll come on calm enough up through about 8,000rpm at which point all hell breaks loose, horsepower doubles, it spits you into the next county unless you're ready for it.
A twin is a nice split between the two...some decent but not explosive top end.
Upshot: the GS500 is one of the cheapest bikes to keep rolling if you do your own modest wrenching. The EX500 is more complex for the home wrench and you'll need help with those valves probably...but other than that they're damned fine.
I don't remember what the valve adjust system for the SV650 is...Atek3, are they screw-adjust, shims or hydraulic self-adjusting?
My current ride: '97 Buell S3 Thunderbolt, flattracker bars off a dirtbike, PM aluminum rims, 1250-kit Axtell nickle-silicon ceramic lined barrels, matching 10.5:1 forged race pistons with dome pattern based on the Thunderstorm heads, 2004-model heads with oversize valves and cut for Thunderstorm pistons, Mikuni HS42 carb and the last piece is waiting in storage for install next week...a KT Engineering out-of-production race pipe, the final bit I need to get up over 100hp at the crank out of this hopped-up Harley Sportster mill
.
Post by: atek3 on September 22, 2005, 05:54:40 PM
shim under bucket. I could do it myself, but I'm too lazy/busy...
GS500 is a great beginner bike, I had one, rode it for 10 thousand miles.
don't under estimate dual sports as first bike. Kinda top heavy, but the good news, they were practically made to be dropped.
atek3
Post by: Guest on September 23, 2005, 12:21:58 AM
Trust me. If you'd started with a top-grade 600 four-banger, your odds of the same thing happening would be downright grim.
What I started with was a '78 Yamaha 650 parallel twin. A tad bigger but then again I'm bigger
.Just curious: I suspect you got nearly your full original price out of the GS when you unloaded it?
Post by: atek3 on September 23, 2005, 06:14:59 AM
Barely!!! I won't say I never went down... But I will say I'm still in one piece, if thats what you mean.
> I suspect you got nearly your full original price out of the GS when you unloaded it?
Haven't sold it yet. Considering it needs a new front tire, chain, and sprockets, I'll probably take a hundred or two hit, big whoop.
atek3
Post by: Guest on September 23, 2005, 09:24:32 AM
It'll help us understand the risks to newbies better...
Post by: atek3 on September 23, 2005, 04:09:35 PM
Lessons learned in no particular order.
1) You go where you look, or said another way, you don't go where you aren't looking. When you're cornering, "look through the turn" rather than straight ahead.
2) Get your braking done before you start to lean in until you're advanced enough to learn about trail braking.
3) You can't carry as much speed as you think you can around a downhill corner (gravity is working against you)
4) Watch out on right handers, if you blow it, you'll be in oncoming traffic (which is very fatal)
5) Watch out on left handers if some jerk blows the corner coming in the opposite direction, they've just entered your path, which is a bad scene.
6) Don't corner aggressively at intersections for several reasons, even ignoring crazy drivers. For starters, if you're putting around on the street, the edges of your tires probably aren't up to temp for good traction. Secondly, slippery car fluids (oil, antifreeze, gas) tend to accumulate at intersections. Thirdly, the painted surfaces all over intersections are very bad for traction.
7) If it's 105, you've only had 3 hours of sleep and you're getting mad dehydrated, go into the pits rather than pushing for 'one more lap'.
When the wear bar on your tire is no longer visible, replace it post haste.9) Beware of gravel that is the same color as the pavement, if you do hit it, take your weight off the seat and put it on the pegs dirt bike style, Bikes are naturally self correcting, and usually you'll simply go, "whoa, oh *expletive deleted*it" but keep the shiny side up and the rubber side down.
10) When riding desert trails, beware of ruts in the direction of travel, high siding is hilarious, unless you break something (fortunately I was fine)
11) Riding in a mixed skill level group as a newbie is a BAD idea, unless everyones pace is the slowest persons pace. When group riding it is VERY hard to to try and ride the pace of the person ahead of you, and trying to ride someone elses pace is just as stupid as having a few drinks before a ride
12) Protective gear is your friend. Thankfully for my aerostich and leathers, expensive Sidi's, good gloves, back protector and shoei helmets, I'm here barely worse for it.
13) Oh ya, "that guy" who never drops their first bike that they keep for more than a few months, I'd really really like to meet him.
14) Seems silly, but DON'T come to a halt with the bike more than 5 or 10 degress off vertical, or you will experience the very embarrasing, "laying down a 400 pound object on its side in front of pedestrians".
Just some tips and suggestions.
atek3
Post by: Guest on September 23, 2005, 08:09:32 PM
Do this BEFORE cornering, so you can figure out what's available.
Post by: atek3 on September 24, 2005, 07:09:36 PM
Quote from: JimMarch
Another good tip: if you have any questions in your mind about traction issues due to a weird road, weather, whatever: drag the rubber heel of your boot through whatever you're riding in. You'll be able to feel how much "sticky" you have available. Shoe rubber is pretty similar in grip to your tires, close enough anyways.
Do this BEFORE cornering, so you can figure out what's available.
Similar tactic is to see how much rear brake pressure is required to leave a darkie. This doesn't work overly well because usually traction isn't an issue in a straight line, its while cornering, and often evil substances (oil, debris, etc.) pops up in the corners Do this BEFORE cornering, so you can figure out what's available.
atek3
Post by: Guest on September 24, 2005, 11:28:08 PM
The hairiest ride I've ever done was across Donner Pass on I80 (Reno to Sacramento) in a February snowstorm in '97. I was able to find enough traction in the "slush ruts" left by car tires but I was checking traction becore every corner. Slowing down in those conditions with traffic behind me wasn't an option; the bootheel trick was utterly critical.
You can also use it to see just how slick various "transitory patches" are - sealed road cracks, big white crosswalk strips in urban areas, etc.
If you check different road surfaces with your boot under different conditions, you'll soon get a "feel" for it. Literally.
Post by: Smith on September 25, 2005, 05:13:34 PM
Post by: CatsDieNow on September 26, 2005, 09:44:34 AM
I definitly agree about setting your cornering speed before the turn. A very minimal amount of braking should be done in a turn, and straighten up if you absolutly must use brakes. Front brake + corner = low side. Rear brake + corner = high side.
Post by: cfabe on September 26, 2005, 09:46:53 AM
Post by: atek3 on September 26, 2005, 12:43:38 PM
I'm pretty sure Jim means dragging the heel, which is a lot safer than dragging the toe. If you look at supermotard riders they drag heel seemingly without incident.
atek3
Post by: Guest on September 27, 2005, 05:01:16 PM
If you were dumb enough to do it with your leg dead straight locked ahead of you, yeah, that would be BAD.
Second, a bit of "feathering" of the rear brake in the corner is possible. A lot of people into going very fast deliberately weaken their rear brakes so there's no "unanticipated grab".
I'm also a fan of Metzler tires over the more common Dunlops. I find they're consistently easier to recover if they start to slide and then hook up again. They tend to have that little bit of extra flex right out there at the edge.
Situations where you slide and then hook back up can be the worst...that's high-side territory. The solution is to be able to feel that first slip and extend your legs with it, and then when it hooks up again absorb the extra jolt of energy with your legs versus letting the bike radically upset. Hanging off can actually help as your legs are already taking up extra weight because your butt isn't on the seat anymore.
You're literally part of the bike. When the bike jolts, shudders or does anything else squirrelly, usually it means too much energy is making it's way to the frame without being controlled by the suspension. YOU can absorb that energy into your body and stabilize the situation.
Post by: CatsDieNow on September 27, 2005, 05:25:55 PM
I just try to anticipate such nastiness, if I would feel the need to bootheel test an area then I should probably just slow down anyway.Supermotard is a controlled surface condition, on a track using race tires.
Post by: atek3 on September 27, 2005, 07:08:29 PM
tell that to the 'tards on 'tards I see railing up on grizzly peak
atek3
Post by: Guest on September 27, 2005, 07:59:33 PM
.Anyways. I like *knowing* what my traction situation is.
Post by: CatsDieNow on September 28, 2005, 04:16:15 AM
Post by: atek3 on September 30, 2005, 07:46:34 PM
Quote from: CatsDieNow
I need to figure out how to get my bike to California. The roads here are exciting for all the wrong reasons.
Great roads... within an hour and a half of san francisco there are more fantastic motorcycle roads than you can shake a stick at... THANK YOU TECTONIC ANOMALIES.atek3
Post by: Smith on October 02, 2005, 05:16:57 AM