Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: just Warren on July 07, 2018, 11:20:45 AM
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...and tell us just what needs to happen in terms of training and equipment for this to happen.
Because, holy moly does this look dangerous.
https://9gag.com/gag/anMWq75
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The water, she's a need to be berry, berry smooooooth.
And the pilotas need to have berry, berry large cajones.
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I've seen a couple of bush pilot videos where they do this for landing (or watering?), and then just roll onto the shore. I love watching bush pilot videos.
Oh, if I were only 20, single, wealthy, and ballsey, I'd be up in Alaska bush piloting.
https://youtu.be/TuymNRGAw-k
Just like water skiing.
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Alaska bush piloting.
You kids and your euphemisms.
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...and tell us just what needs to happen in terms of training and equipment for this to happen.
Because, holy moly does this look dangerous.
https://9gag.com/gag/anMWq75
Training: very comfortable in the plane.
Equipment: nothing special, just go fast enough to hydroplane.
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Training: very comfortable in the plane.
Equipment: nothing special, just go fast enough to hydroplane.
You’re pretty comfortable in a 320, right?
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I'm guessing a jet that close to the surface will suck a lot of water into its engines.
So there should definitely be chase planes filming the event in case the jet crashes and we lose the in-plane footage.
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Training: very comfortable in the plane.
Pretty much what I was thinking; tail draggers are a different critter anyway, and I wouldn't think this would be all that much more challenging than the ones who do two-point landings and tail-up taxi on soft surface runways. (Not that those are exactly a walk in the park even on asphalt, but it's not something I'd be surprised to find any experienced tail dragger pilot could figure out in a few tries.)
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Looks like a fatal nose-over crash waiting to happen if the pilot drops too low and punches through the hydroplaning effect.
Absolutely still water and air required. Wearing of life vests and four-point harnesses required. Signed waivers mandatory. Insurance coverage null and void while these maneuvers are underway.
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I never even thought about trying water skiing with a plane. My dad told me that if done on smooth water with a tail dragger once the hydroplane effect is started you can’t force the plane into the water. You have to decelerate enough to loose the upforce on the gear or hit a wave.
Tricycle geared plane is another story.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I never even thought about trying water skiing with a plane. My dad told me that if done on smooth water with a tail dragger once the hydroplane effect is started you can’t force the plane into the water. You have to decelerate enough to loose the upforce on the gear or hit a wave.
Tricycle geared plane is another story.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Don't forget you've also got the aerodynamic wing-lift going for you. It's not like you're relying on the hydroplaning effect to hold up the whole weight of the plane.
<sigh>"Oh, if I were only 20, single, wealthy, and ballsey, I'd be up in Alaska bush piloting."</sigh>
https://youtu.be/Bo7-BuNiP6Y ((0:36)
"Mine's shorter than yours ! Nyah-nyah !"
Terry, 230RN
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I also have to think that in this video, there was a spotter in another plane that talked the pilot down to the water surface: 2 feet, 1 foot, six inches, etc.
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I also have to think that in this video, there was a spotter in another plane that talked the pilot down to the water surface: 2 feet, 1 foot, six inches, etc.
There were at least four planes, all doing it at the same time. Possibly pairs, spotting for each other?
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I also have to think that in this video, there was a spotter in another plane that talked the pilot down to the water surface: 2 feet, 1 foot, six inches, etc.
Not necessary. A good pilot can tell how close to the water the wheels are in much the same way you can tell how close your car bumper is to the car in front of you. It is just experience in the vehicle. I don't use a spotter when I'm landing the A320; I know how close my wheels are to the runway.
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^ "A good pilot can tell how close to the water the wheels are in much the same way you can tell how close your car bumper is to the car in front of you."
Good analogy.
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I don't use a spotter when I'm landing the A320; I know how close my wheels are to the runway.
Keep descending until you feel a thump ?
The only way my ex- knew how close she was to car in front of her was when she hit their bumper....
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Keep descending until you feel a thump ?
Only if I remembered to put the gear down.
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Only if I remembered to put the gear down.
It's just a louder thump if you don't.
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Only if I remembered to put the gear down.
I nearly choked on my food there.
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It's just a louder thump if you don't.
Followed be a long scraping sound.
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I don't use a spotter when I'm landing the A320; I know how close my wheels are to the runway.
I thought you guys had that new fangled auto land. Just sit back and make sure it stays kind of on centerline during rollout. ;)
bob
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"This feels low. Does this feel low to you Bob?" (THUMP!) (SKREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!)
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Looks like I picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue!
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Sum Ting Wong. Famous Pilot.
Wi Tu Lo. Famous copilot.
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Not necessary. A good pilot can tell how close to the water the wheels are in much the same way you can tell how close your car bumper is to the car in front of you. It is just experience in the vehicle. I don't use a spotter when I'm landing the A320; I know how close my wheels are to the runway.
Don't you have an electronic spotter announcing your height above ground, starting at something like 1,000 feet or 500 feet?
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Radar altimeter starts calling out at 50 feet and lower, but I don’t pay attention to it. I use my Mk1 Eyeballs to judge the height.
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Radar altimeter starts calling out at 50 feet and lower, but I don’t pay attention to it. I use my Mk1 Eyeballs to judge the height.
So the radar altimeter is just there for when both pilots have the fish for dinner and one of us passenger types has to land the plane?
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So the radar altimeter is just there for when both pilots have the fish for dinner
'S'mofo butter layin' me to da' BONE! Jackin' me up... tight me!
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I speak jive.
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So the radar altimeter is just there for when both pilots have the fish for dinner and one of us passenger types has to land the plane?
That won't help you. The RA does give us height information that we use during certain approaches, but for normal landings, I just use the seat of my pants.
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I speak jive.
Did you know this?
Muggles
1930s and '40s slang for marijuana.
Mugglin'
I's a-muggin', you's a-muggin', meaning getting high on reefer.
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That won't help you. The RA does give us height information that we use during certain approaches, but for normal landings, I just use the seat of my calibrated pants.
Fixed.
"I speak jive, stewardess."
(Barbara Billingsley, mother of the Beaver, in just about her last role.)
https://youtu.be/g0j2dVuhr6s?t=57
Terry
REF:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leave_It_to_Beaver
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That won't help you. The RA does give us height information that we use during certain approaches, but for normal landings, I just use the seat of my pants.
So if I'm on your aircraft when you have the fish for dinner, I can't land the plane unless I can fit into your pants? Or is a passenger landing the aircraft not considered a "normal" landing?
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So if I'm on your aircraft when you have the fish for dinner, I can't land the plane unless I can fit into your pants?
This truly is the best timeline.
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You must be One with the aircraft, Grasshopper. Calibrated pants or no pants at all.
(https://akm-img-a-in.tosshub.com/indiatoday/images/story/201711/gurustory_647_111116063921_110417104348.jpg)
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Fly320 is just hoping that someone will inflate him, as per the original movie:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WQfZYacEAw
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You must be One with the aircraft, Puddlejumper. Calibrated pants or no pants at all.
Fixed.
Fly320 is just hoping that someone will inflate him, as per the original movie:
Inflate/felate. All is good.
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Sacred movie for me. I met my wife of 38 years on a blind double date to see Airplane! when it first came out. Married her exactly a year to the minute that date started.
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Neat story, HeroHog.
I remember the first time I saw it I would laugh so hard at one joke, I'd miss the next one. Had to see it several times to get it all. I remember I was shocked at the inflation scene. Nowadays, meh, funny, but not so prurient any more.
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Forty-six mile water skiing by aircraft:
https://youtu.be/6OAEGPVcvhU (2:36)
Hmmmm, 46 miles in 2 minutes 36 seconds. What's that work out to in miles per hour? :D
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Hmmmm, 46 miles in 2 minutes 36 seconds. What's that work out to in miles per hour? :D
1,061 mph!! That plane was flying!
Or, if we account for the Youtube editing, 52 mph average.
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:D That's what I got, too :D
Interesting to watch the wheels bouncing over the ripples.
Say, did I notice the winglets are tipped downward at 0:21 and possibly other spots? I asked about the efficacy of down-tipped versus up-tipped winglets in crosswind landings a couple of months ago, but sort of got poo-pooed on that one.
I figured down-tipped winglets would help hold the wing level in crosswind landings. (As well as reducing the vortex effect.)
Hard to tell, they're black against a dark background.
Terry, 230RN
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Droop tips improve low-speed flight and handling. They actually decrease the stall speed by a knot or three.
Upswept wing tips decrease drag in high-speed flight.
Neither type affects crosswind landing because the empennage (fancy French word for tail) has a longer arm from the CG and therefore has a greater moment to steer the nose in crosswind landings/takeoffs. The winglets may contribute slightly to drift just because they will catch the wind more than a flat wingtip will, but compare to the size and shape of the fuselage, the effect is minimal. So, allowing a slight amount of crosswind-induced drift because of the winglets doesn't cancel out the greater effects of high-speed drag reduction or low-speed stability.
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I'm not talking about yaw, I'm talking about roll in a crosswind, where the upwind wing tends to get picked up and sometimes the downwind wing touches the ground. The winglets have a large moment arm on which to counteract the roll (negative* feedback) if they're tipped down, and emphasize the roll (positive* feedback) if they're tipped up.
Just seems that way to me.
/
___________________/ <--------------- crosswind
WING
Wind from the right tends to tip the wing up, a positive feedback situation
___________________
WING \ <------------- crosswind
\
Wind from the right tends to tip the wing down, a negative feedback situation.
All depending on angles and airfoil and so forth, but it looks like the down-tipped winglet (giving negative feedback) would be inherently desirable.
But they don't do it that way, so this must be wrong.
Terry, 230RN
* "Negative" and "positive" are in the mathematical sense, not the emotional sense.
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I understand now.
The winglets are so small, and the plane is so heavy, that a crosswind will not push on the winglet and roll the plane.
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Droop tips improve low-speed flight and handling. They actually decrease the stall speed by a knot or three.
Upswept wing tips decrease drag in high-speed flight.
Why not do both?
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Why not do both?
Why not put 'em on hinges?
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.
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As you wish (https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CHZL_enUS746US747&biw=1368&bih=819&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=zu1HW9CyJey1ggeC0qfgDw&q=737+max+winglet&oq=737+max+w&gs_l=img.3.0.0l8.12893.14409.0.16497.2.2.0.0.0.0.82.150.2.2.0....0...1c.1.64.img..0.2.150...0i67k1.0.rMnHloCXW3I)
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Or maybe some here a few there. ;)
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimgproc.airliners.net%2Fphotos%2Fairliners%2F1%2F7%2F6%2F0079671.jpg%3Fv%3Dv40&hash=e24b3b72eb8977b6f3c054013cc4bb7851d05f70)
bob
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Yep. Beech 1900D. The more strakes the merrier.
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Or as the Chinese have figured out... variable winglets...sort of.
(https://i.stack.imgur.com/cAZtK.jpg)
bob
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Isn't that a Russian plane? An2?
Modernized version: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/modernised-an-2-demonstrator-completes-first-flight-413382/
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Isn't that a Russian plane? An2?
Modernized version: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/modernised-an-2-demonstrator-completes-first-flight-413382/
Chinese copy of AN2, Y5B.
http://an2flyers.org/chinese.html
bob
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From Fly320s' link at
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/modernised-an-2-demonstrator-completes-first-flight-413382/
"That design change* improves the speed of the An-2 by 50%," Sukhoi says in the press release. The testing also shows the minimum flying speed of the aircraft is “close to zero”.
Damned plane is its own parachute. :rofl:
Terry
* I think the "design change" refers to the new engine and prop, not the additional struts. It is not clear from the structure of these passages what they mean. But even the original AN-2 has sprung slats of some kind on the wings which reduce the stall speed to zero. Maybe they mean they only just discovered that particular feature of the AN-2.
The An-2 has no stall speed, a fact which is quoted [stated] in the operating handbook. A note from the pilot's handbook reads: "If the engine quits in instrument conditions or at night, the pilot should pull the control column full aft and keep the wings level. The leading-edge slats will snap out at about 64 km/h (40 mph) and when the airplane slows to a forward speed of about 40 km/h (25 mph), the airplane will sink at about a parachute descent rate until the aircraft hits the ground."[4]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonov_An-2
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The An-2 has no stall speed, a fact which is quoted [stated] in the operating handbook. A note from the pilot's handbook reads: "If the engine quits in instrument conditions or at night, the pilot should pull the control column full aft and keep the wings level. The leading-edge slats will snap out at about 64 km/h (40 mph) and when the airplane slows to a forward speed of about 40 km/h (25 mph), the airplane will sink at about a parachute descent rate until the aircraft hits the ground."[4]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonov_An-2
Now that's my kind of airplane!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTbm5ZzZQy8
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Now that's my kind of airplane!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTbm5ZzZQy8
Save up your pennies, it won't take that many surprisingly. There are quite a few of them out there for sale with prices all over the place. This one looks nice for the price.
http://www.planecheck.com/index.asp?ent=ap&man=Antonov&des=AN2&type=&grp=An-2&id=0
bob
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But wheяe do you get paяts nowadays?
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But wheяe do you get paяts nowadays?
Probably from a VW dealer.
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There is an old saying: "There are old pilots, and there are bold pilots. But there are no old, bold pilots." I would amend that to read, "There are very damn few old, bold pilots." We have to account for the Chuck Yeagers, Bob Hoovers, and Scott Crossfields of the pilot world.
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In general, I hate all-encompassing aphorisms like that. It's like the BS "There are only two kinds of pilots --those who have made a wheels-up landing, and those who will."
Catchy when you say it fast, dumb when you think about it.
(Reminds me of hyperlefties, come to think of it.)
(Yeah, had to stick a politics thingie in there. Sorry.)
Terry