Idea for a website...civilians buying good magazines for troops

[Manedwolf]

I'd had this idea for a while, and have been trying to figure out how it would be feasible without scams and without abuse. Technically and graphically it'd be no problem at all, but there's so many scumbags and leftist "protesters" out there who would abuse it...

Basically, the idea would be a site where currently deployed troops could sign up with an APO/FPO and choose whether they were issued an M-4 or M9 or both. As I keep hearing, the issued mags for the former are often dinged up, and those for the latter are crappy quality.

And then, civilians who wanted to help them out would be able to sign up and be given a solider either by first-come-first served-order or one from their own state, if they want to do that. They'd then be presented with a list of online vendors who sell good AR mags from Bushmaster to Bravo Company to H&K, and M9 mags by Mec-Gar. They'd be able to order them on their own credit card and get them shipped to an APO/FPO.
Probably with some sort of agreement with the vendors so if they come in via that gateway, the box gets shipped with a label saying that it's part of that program/website, so the recipient knows what it is.

It's just how to prevent abuse of it by slimeballs and antiwar sorts that I can't figure out.   It'd probably need an eCommerce engine that was a double-blind and didn't actually show the mailing address, but I do not think many online gun parts dealers have the sort of sites that can crosslink with another's database on a secure link. They seem to be mostly really basic off-the-shelf shopping cart sites.

[Gewehr98]

I'm not a leftist, but I'm also not a big fan of non-milspec items being sent to troops in theater. 

You send something with an NSN, I might cut you some slack, although it's still not on the Table of Allowances. Likewise, does the troop get to keep the "gift", or does it get cycled into armory inventory after the deployment?

Kim du Toit probably still thinks I'm an asshat because I dissed his program to send riflescopes to troops over there.  So be it.

[Manedwolf]

But what if the "issued" stuff is so bad that it can get people killed?

They went with a lowest bidder (Checkmate) for M9 mags. They also didn't bother to test with ultrafine Iraq-region sand for the "sand-proof" magazines, and they jammed up.

A Mec-Gar magazine is, any way you put it, superior to a Checkmate magazine.

An H&K steel magazine is superior to an issue M4 magazine, which, as I keep hearing, are usually dinged, some people get some that don't even work, and can't try them out until they're actually on the ground with them.

That's why I specified only high-quality. There'd be no option to foist Promag crap on people, just the few brands that are recognized as the best.

I know of people I know that have relatives currently deployed, my suggestions to send them some Mec-Gars or a pricey but good H&K steel AR mag have gotten extremely enthusiastic responses when the packages were received. And I know of lots of people that have had their families send them stuff like those MagPul things because they weren't issued them.

Well then, how about a simple informational site? "If you have someone deployed right now, these are the best brands of things you could buy for them."

[Euclidean]

It's a fine idea, I just think the objections Gewehr brings up are difficult to surmount.  Plus, wouldn't these magazines just get confiscated?

As I have no idea how to overcome those issues although I support the sentiment our soldiers need better equipment, I would like to suggest an alternative if no workaround can be found:

http://www.treatanysoldier.com/CarePackages.cfm

In my (limited) experience, it's the little things like that which the fine folks in the sandbox cherish the most.  I've personally sent a multi tool and razor blades to a personal acquaintance who was clamoring for them.  But I love this website, it lets you do something without having to know the nuts and bolts of what you can and can't send or how to do it.  It works best if you can somehow coordinate a small group of people to pool their resources.

[Gewehr98]

I've got all sorts of objections, and they were well before I earned the Burr Butt moniker here.

1.  Troops have bitched about things they're issued since the Continental Army, and probably well before then. You'll probably find Latin inscriptions somewhere around Rome about a given Centurion's gladius being sub-par.  If they couldn't bitch, as a commander, I'd be seriously worried.

2.  I'm waiting for reports to get back to parents and friends about the horrible 40-grit issued toilet paper.  Maybe some kind-hearted Good Samaritan could set up a website and ship several truckloads of Charmin Ultra Soft over to Afghanistan and Iraq. You just know it's gonna happen.

3. How does the Good Samaritan vouch that the items they're sending overseas meet Mil-Spec and GSA acceptance criteria?  Is the receipt from Brigade Quartermasters the stamp of approval?  A friend of a cousin of an acquaintance said they're "good"?

4.  Remember the Dragonskin fiasco.  Well-intentioned folks sent the stuff to their deployed family members, and it's backfired something seriously, particularly in the Army. 

5. Folks laughed at the $7000.00 C-5 Galaxy coffee makers.  Well, some do, but they're not the ones who witnessed or were involved in the specifications, testing, manufacturing, and procurement of said items.  A little hint, it ain't a WalMart Mr. Coffee - it wouldn't survive the G requirement, the fire rating, nor the low-pressure non-explode requirement, among other things.  Now that I work in a production CNC machine shop, and am looking at the things I check against the blueprints for John Deere, Harley, Culligan, etc., you wouldn't believe what hoops are jumped through with respect to customer tolerances and specifications.  Add a Mil-Spec or GSA rating to it, and you can see why COTS (Current Off-The-Shelf) items may or may not be suitable for a combat environment.

6. There is no such thing as an M4 magazine, at least, not when I was issued an M4.  The M4 uses M16 magazines, period. Care to guess how many M16 magazines we have in stock, both afield and new in the wrapper, probably palletized and ready to go? So we're gonna send a couple new ones?  Oy-veh!

7.  Are soldiers dying because of their bad M16 and M9 mags?  Really?  Then let's use the system in place, and get the unit armorers and others involved like they're intended.  I had a bad M16 magazine during one of my qualifications - the feed lips were bent.  I simply got another from the unit armorer and he 86'ed the bad one.  Simple, yet effective.  Shipping care packages of non-descript gear to those in the fight doesn't help much, and could even jeopardize their safety if some well-meaning mommy shipped her boy some USA Mags.

8. As a commander, I would confiscate items that had no record of passing acceptance tests.  I did it before in my aircrew career, and my troops were safer because of it.  They grumbled, and called me names, but that's fine. What they couldn't get through their skulls was that I talked to our supply folks and got them the stuff they needed through proper channels.  Had they asked me for the items to begin with, they wouldn't have gotten mommy and daddy involved, sending unauthorized equipment.

I've got a bazillion more, but I have to head off to work. 

[Thor]

While I DID ship off a couple of rifle scopes to an online acquaintance of mine, I tend to agree with Gewehr on the whole. There may be circumstances where things may be needed and the supply system is just out of stock. I've seen it during my career in the Navy. We've even "manufactured" replacement parts because they were mission critical and it would be weeks or months before we would have received the items. Then, we need to step up on an as-required basis, IF we can.

During Desert Shield/ Storm, I appreciated the videos, magazines, razors, and some of the other goodies that were difficult to obtain. The Navy generally took care of the absolute necessities.

[Phantom Warrior]

My story is just my story.  But I've seen nothing but an abundance of mostly brand new, in the wrapper M16/M4 magazines.  We got a bunch back in garrison.  I was told to bring 12 down with me, which I did.  Plus we had more lying around down here. 

And frankly, _I_ haven't seen much need for magazines.  I have yet to fire my weapon this deployment.  I'm w/ the battalion PSD, but this is an infantry battalion and that is pretty common here.  Our biggest problem here is IEDs, not small arms fire.  And when that does come up the response is usually crew served weapons and the 25mm off the Bradleys.

I realize my experience is unique to me and my unit and our sector.  But I think, at least at this point in the war, the need for more magazines is more imagined than real.  *shrug*

[Balog]

Well, I know in my unit I was issued some bad mags, and our armorer refused to give me new ones. Of course they also refused to issue me a cleaning kit: "they sell em at the PX." And no one in my chain of command ever inspected my mags other than to see that I had them.

Should you be able to go through official channels to replace bad equipment? Of course. But your unit may be *expletive deleted*ed up, and getting good gear from family or friends may be easier than requesting mast just to get some lazy *expletive deleted*che to do his job.

[Gewehr98]

Oh, I don't disagree that unit armorers and their chain of command have bad links. I was Stan-Eval and IG, I got to ferret out those bad links from time to time.  I just find it incredulous, having seen pallet loads of new mags sitting in bench stock, on C-17 airlifters, and at depots, that some Good Samaritan wants to send a handful of non-descript M16 and M9 magazines directly to the troops.

Send baby wipes.  I liked those while in the sandbox.  Send chocolate chip cookies.  Leave the provisioning of war materiel to the folks who are best equipped and qualified.  Begging Mom and Dad for Dragonskin ain't the way to get things done.  I can just hear this cellphone conversation - "Grandma, we're pinned down here, can you send some Close Air Support?"