University of Cincinnati Police Officer Indicted on Murder in Shooting

[TechMan]

http://www.local12.com/news/features/top-stories/stories/UC-Officer-Ray-Tensing-charged-with-murder-voluntary-manslaughter-177450.shtml

Hamilton County Prosecutor Joe Deters announced the charges against Tensing during a news conference. Deters called the shooting of DuBose the "most asinine act I've ever seen". He also says the shooting was "totally unwarranted".

Body Cam Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0cdejrSjyc

[griz]

The camera gets pretty herky jerky once things go haywire, but it looked like the shot was only a fraction of a second after the word stop.

[T.O.M.]

I met Joe Deters at a conference one time.  Except for his one foray into state-level politics, he's pretty much been a career prosecutor.  He was re-elected as prosecutor with 60%+ of the vote in 2004 as a write-in candidate, leaving state-level politics behind.  Should be interesting to watch.  He's known generally as a tough-on-crime prosecutor, and generally has the support of the LEO community.  Interesting that he called this a "chicken crap" traffic stop.

[T.O.M.]

Sorry, just watched the body cam video, and would like to throw something out here.

SCOTUS ruled in Tennessee v. Garner (1985) 471 US 1 that it is a violation of the Fourth Amendment to use deadly force to prevent a subject from escaping unless an officer has probable cause to believe that the subject "poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others."

Looked to me like the driver was trying to flee the stop.  Kind of like the SCOTUS case...

[Battle Monkey of Zardoz]

Let a judge/jury figure it out. Glad it's being run through the courts.

[vaskidmark]

Sorry, just watched the body cam video, and would like to throw something out here.

SCOTUS ruled in Tennessee v. Garner (1985) 471 US 1 that it is a violation of the Fourth Amendment to use deadly force to prevent a subject from escaping unless an officer has probable cause to believe that the subject "poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others."

Looked to me like the driver was trying to flee the stop.  Kind of like the SCOTUS case...

There was a case in Culpeper Va a little while ago.  Claim was a) the cop was being dragged and/or b) the driver was headed towards downtown.  Neither theory held up and the cop was convicted.  Garner is still being figured out at least in terms of "does this case fit" or not.

stay safe.

[brimic]

I'm torn on this one.
Positive: Some shitbird drain on society stops sucking oxygen.(1)
Negative: Not sure that was a clean shoot. Cops need to be held to the same standard as we do for shoots.


(1) I have a lot less tolerance lately for this type of driver. My UM/IM insurance is very high, and I've had a lot of near misses of serious accidents by people who aren't at all likely to have a license or insurance. I have a close friend whose parents were nearly killed and one of which was permanently crippled on a motorcycle when hit by a uninsured/unlicensed driver- the driver did some time, but turned out to be a complete useless waste.

[KD5NRH]

My UM/IM insurance is very high,

Sounds like you need to either move or switch insurance.  U/UM bodily injury coverage at double the regular minimums costs me about $8/mo.  I don't carry U/UM property damage because the lowest my carrier offers is $15,000 and my car blue book value is under $1k.

[Boomhauer]

I will say this...if you are a University/College police department officer, you are probably pretty screwed if a shooting, or hell, any significant use of force occurs no matter how in the right you are due to politics.

[Firethorn]

Sounds like you need to either move or switch insurance.  U/UM bodily injury coverage at double the regular minimums costs me about $8/mo.  I don't carry U/UM property damage because the lowest my carrier offers is $15,000 and my car blue book value is under $1k.

U/UM is actually the largest part of my motorcycle policy.  Seems they aren't that worried about me hurting others...

[TechMan]

I met Joe Deters at a conference one time.  Except for his one foray into state-level politics, he's pretty much been a career prosecutor.  He was re-elected as prosecutor with 60%+ of the vote in 2004 as a write-in candidate, leaving state-level politics behind.  Should be interesting to watch.  He's known generally as a tough-on-crime prosecutor, and generally has the support of the LEO community.  Interesting that he called this a "chicken crap" traffic stop.

Joe is going to be the lead prosecutor on this one.  That is not a good sign for the ex-officer.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Looked bad from what I saw. Be interesting to hear what the other cop has to say, and how he comes about saying it


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[TechMan]

Looked bad from what I saw. Be interesting to hear what the other cop has to say, and how he comes about saying it


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The one at the end of the video?  If so, here is what is going on:

Ray Tensing, the former University of Cincinnati police officer charged with murder in the death of motorist Samuel DuBose, wasn’t the only one who claimed the cop had been dragged by DuBose’s car.

Fellow officer Phillip Kidd reportedly corroborated the story.

That has some legal experts predicting that Kidd could be charged with giving a false statement.

“I would expect that to be forthcoming,” said Philip Stinson, a Bowling Green State University criminologist who gathers data on officer arrests. “It was a false statement. The video evidence doesn’t support it. There seems to be the elements of a crime there.”

Hamilton County Prosecutor Joe Deters said Wednesday that he was still looking at the issue. He did not respond immediately respond to phone calls or a text message seeking comment Thursday.

“We promised the family that we would look at that,” Deters said Wednesday in response to a reporter’s question about Kidd corroborating Tensing’s dragging description. “It is our belief that he was not dragged. If you slow down this tape, you see what happened. It takes a very short period of time from when the car starts slowly rolling that the gun is out and he’s shot in the head

[RevDisk]

I will say this...if you are a University/College police department officer, you are probably pretty screwed if a shooting, or hell, any significant use of force occurs no matter how in the right you are due to politics.

Eh, most of the university police back when I was attending knew their primary job was to never under ANY reasonable circumstances admit a crime occurred other than speeding tickets or any other metric that wouldn't make the college crime rankings. They'd refuse to report theft, rape, assault, you name it. But they did and would ticket for 1mph over the speed limit.

A friend of mine was given a DUI for operating a wheelchair while under the influence. That went away only after he threatened an ADA lawsuit. 

There was one good to excellent officer that I knew, he switched departments in pretty quickly however. Good departments virtually never make the news. They attract and retain good cops, and because they do a good job, they don't make the news. Bad departments weed out the good officers, directly and indirectly.

[Battle Monkey of Zardoz]

Another cop giving a false statement backing up the officer accused of murder. I'm shocked. Shocked. 

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Maybe. Maybe not. Here's a montage of body cam footages
http://www.washingtonpost.com/posttv/national/the-cincinnati-shooting-seen-from-3-body-cameras/2015/07/30/bafb0c26-3712-11e5-ab7b-6416d97c73c2_video.html


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[Scout26]

Maybe. Maybe not. Here's a montage of body cam footages
http://www.washingtonpost.com/posttv/national/the-cincinnati-shooting-seen-from-3-body-cameras/2015/07/30/bafb0c26-3712-11e5-ab7b-6416d97c73c2_video.html


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I don't see anything from the other 2 officers cameras before they get down to the bottom of the hill.  Not sure what you are trying to prove other then Kidd lied.

And I also don't see anything justifying the use of deadly force.

[KD5NRH]

Eh, most of the university police back when I was attending knew their primary job was to never under ANY reasonable circumstances admit a crime occurred other than speeding tickets or any other metric that wouldn't make the college crime rankings.

Yeah, the local uni PD chief got in a lot of trouble over failing to properly report on the stats a few rapes and aggravated assaults and a whole hell of a lot of thefts that the city PD had handled.  (911 seems to randomly pick a dispatch center, and if city units are near the campus, there's about a 60% chance they will be first on scene due to the campus layout making it hard to get from one point to another in a car without leaving the campus first.)  He claimed he just didn't understand the Clery Act reporting requirements, and didn't think he had to report crimes in off campus housing or remote facilities, or any that the city had handled, even though every bit of training on the Act makes it clear that the reporting requirements apply to any crime they're made aware of on campus, in remote facilities, or on public property immediately adjacent to the campus or remote facility.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

I don't see anything from the other 2 officers cameras before they get down to the bottom of the hill.  Not sure what you are trying to prove other then Kidd lied.

And I also don't see anything justifying the use of deadly force.

What do you believe constitutes legal justification for deadly force?


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[KD5NRH]

The camera gets pretty herky jerky once things go haywire, but it looked like the shot was only a fraction of a second after the word stop.

More to the point, it doesn't look to me like the car was ever actually in gear; the deceased obviously mashed the gas upon being shot, so how did it end up obviously out of gear, stopped by the tiny not-quite-a-curb at the bottom of the hill?  Also, the only tire squeal we hear is (if it's even from the suspect's car) apparently when it swerved off the road, quite probably due to the left front tire dragging the curb and jerking the steering left, since the driver was almost certainly not controlling it anymore at that point.

I couldn't see if the silver car near the final location was occupied; if so, them dodging the out-of-control car might account for the tire squeal.

[Battle Monkey of Zardoz]

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jul/30/samuel-dubose-video-police-killing-cincinnati

Sorry. They lied. Each officer involved blowing story's out of their nether regions to protect a fellow cop needs to be charged with accessory after the fact, murder. This *expletive deleted*it has to stop.

[KD5NRH]

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jul/30/samuel-dubose-video-police-killing-cincinnati

Sorry. They lied.

According to the reports I've seen, their official statements said they hadn't seen him being dragged.  What they said at the scene before the official statements may be due to any of a few reasons:

• It's not a good idea to argue with someone who's still recovering from the adrenaline dump of a major stress situation, especially if you are also recovering from a similar stressor.
• Calling BS too early allows the liar to refine or replace the lie; thus it's better to just agree with them "off the record" and if possible, draw them off on a tangent to keep them from noticing glaring inconsistencies and fixing those before the official statement.  I've known cops who would quietly take your statement that water is dry and the sky is plaid, then only call you out on that after you signed it.  IMO, that's the way it should always be done.
• They may not be entirely sure what they saw, and don't want to disagree while it's still more-or-less in the heat of the moment.
• They just plain don't want to argue with a guy who put a bullet in the head of the last guy who argued with him...especially when that was just a couple minutes ago.

[Battle Monkey of Zardoz]

http://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/colleges/uc-news/uc-puts-officer-phillip-kidd-trainee-on-paid-administrative-leave-in-sam-debose-shooting

They lied. Changed their story after the media attention and under oath. They lied, got suspended, and got caught lying. So, they changed their story. Jury declined to file charges. But, they should be done. Their word can never be trusted again.

[Tallpine]

So did he ND into the pavement after shooting the driver in the head 

[Scout26]

What do you believe constitutes legal justification for deadly force?


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It's not what I believe, it's what the law states.