Author Topic: Muslim Congressman Won't Use Koran When Taking Oath of Office  (Read 2849 times)

Desertdog

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Muslim Congressman Won't Use Koran When Taking Oath of Office
« on: December 01, 2006, 05:37:08 AM »
Muslim Congressman Won't Use Koran When Taking Oath of Office
By Randy Hall
CNSNews.com Staff Writer/Editor
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewPolitics.aspPage=/Politics/archive/200612/POL20061201a.html

(CNSNews.com) - When he is sworn in as a member of the 110th U.S. Congress on Jan. 4, 2007, Congressman-elect Keith Ellison (D-Minn.) will not take the oath of office with his hand on a copy of the Koran - or any other book, according to a spokesman for Ellison, the first Muslim ever elected to the House of Representatives.

Ellison will not use any book during the ceremony, Dave Colling, who served as the Minnesota Democrat's campaign manager, told Cybercast News Service. "Neither will any other member of the House," Colling added, since "no one has ever taken the oath of office in Congress with a Bible, a Koran, a Torah or anything else."

Instead, the members of the chamber are sworn into office as a group, Colling noted. "They all raise their right hands and repeat the oath that's prescribed in the Constitution."

Drew Hammill, spokesman for Speaker-designate Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), confirmed Colling's description of the swearing-in ceremony.

"You're actually sworn in on the floor of the House," Hammill told Cybercast News Service. "There are no books present."

After Pelosi becomes the new speaker, she will lead the other members of the House in reciting their oath of office:

"I do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion, and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God."

The remarks by Colling and Hammill came in response to a controversy sparked on Nov. 9, when the New York Times ran an article on Arab reaction to Ellison's victory in the U.S. mid-term election two days earlier.

"Arab news reports highlighted the fact that Mr. Ellison would probably take the oath of office on the Koran, something which also upset Muslim-bashers in the blogosphere," the article noted. "Some suggested it meant he would pledge allegiance to Islamic law rather than to upholding the Constitution."

On Nov. 11, ABC News reported that Ellison "will be sworn into the House of Representatives with his hand on a Koran."

More than two weeks later, radio talk show host and columnist Dennis Prager wrote in a Nov. 28 commentary that the Minnesota Democrat "has announced that he will not take his oath of office on the Bible, but on the bible of Islam, the Koran."

"He should not be allowed to do so - not because of any American hostility to the Koran, but because the act undermines American civilization," Prager argued. "Insofar as a member of Congress taking an oath to serve America and uphold its values is concerned, America is interested in only one book, the Bible.

"If you are incapable of taking an oath on that book, don't serve in Congress," he wrote.

Prager's column generated a number of responses, including a reply from Stephen Bainbridge, a professor at the UCLA School of Law, who called the columnist's arguments "fundamentally misguided."

"I don't share Prager's notion that it's necessary for politicians and government officials to 'take their oaths of office with their hands on the very same book' in order to 'affirm that some unifying value system underlies American civilization,'" Bainbridge said.

Eugene Volokh, another professor at the UCLA School of Law, also disagreed with Prager by noting that the oath of office "is a religious ritual, both in its origins and its use by the devout today. The oath invokes God as a witness to one's promise as a means of making the promise more weighty on the oathtaker's conscience."

Volokh also pointed to Article VI of the U.S. Constitution, which states that "no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States."

"Requiring the performance of a religious act using the holy book of a particular religion is a religious test," Volokh noted.

The dispute has generated "tons and tons of email" to Ellison's office, "none of it in a good way," said Colling.

After the House swearing-in ritual is completed, brief sessions are held so individual members of the chamber can be photographed with the speaker. Most participants at this point reportedly choose to adopt the traditional pose of placing their hand on a Bible.

"That's a mock ceremony, so it's not official," Hammill told Cybercast News Service. "Members can bring in the local press, or they can do a photo op with their family, but that's not their actual swearing in."


Sergeant Bob

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Re: Muslim Congressman Won't Use Koran When Taking Oath of Office
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2006, 06:11:43 AM »
I don't care what book (or not) they swear an oath on. I don't care if they stick their hand down their pants to swear their oath.
What I care about is if they abide by their oath. For what that's worth they might as well swear on a big pile of $h1t.
Personally, I do not understand how a bunch of people demanding a bigger govt can call themselves anarchist.
I meet lots of folks like this, claim to be anarchist but really they're just liberals with pierced genitals. - gunsmith

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Sindawe

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Re: Muslim Congressman Won't Use Koran When Taking Oath of Office
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2006, 08:11:21 AM »
I concur with Sergeant Bob.  This is all a tempest in a tea cup.
I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.

The Rabbi

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Re: Muslim Congressman Won't Use Koran When Taking Oath of Office
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2006, 08:17:54 AM »
I don't care what book (or not) they swear an oath on. I don't care if they stick their hand down their pants to swear their oath.


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MechAg94

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Re: Muslim Congressman Won't Use Koran When Taking Oath of Office
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2006, 11:54:04 AM »
It sort of makes sense I guess.  If he was forced to use a Christian Bible would he consider that a binding oath?  That was the point of the using the Bible in the first place, right? 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

Monkeyleg

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Re: Muslim Congressman Won't Use Koran When Taking Oath of Office
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2006, 01:24:26 PM »
Why should he swear before his god to uphold the Constitution, when the rest of congress regularly tramples on it without having to fear the wrath of a Christian God?

Ron

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Re: Muslim Congressman Won't Use Koran When Taking Oath of Office
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2006, 02:12:28 PM »
Is he also swearing to try and bring sharia (law) to us infidels?

Unisaw

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Re: Muslim Congressman Won't Use Koran When Taking Oath of Office
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2006, 02:30:52 PM »
The last I heard, Congressmen are sworn in en masse with neither a bible nor any other book involved.  This is much ado about nothing.
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Sindawe

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Re: Muslim Congressman Won't Use Koran When Taking Oath of Office
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2006, 02:43:05 PM »
Unisaw, thats what I gather from the article in the OP.  I've been looking for corroboration of that on the 'Net, but so far no luck.  Do you have a citation for it?
I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.

Modifiedbrowning

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Re: Muslim Congressman Won't Use Koran When Taking Oath of Office
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2006, 05:06:32 PM »
Quote
"I do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion, and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God."
As long as he (and the rest of congress) actually follow this oath I will be happy. Somehow, though, I think I will be disappointed.
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Unisaw

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Re: Muslim Congressman Won't Use Koran When Taking Oath of Office
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2006, 08:38:14 PM »
Sindawe, I couldn't find where I read that.  However, I have since read in the Washington Times that some members have a private swearing in ceremony (after the official group swearing in) at which some members have used bibles.  Sounds like a photo op more than anything else.
Well, if you have the sudden urge to lick your balls you'll know you got the veterinary version... K Frame

stevelyn

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Re: Muslim Congressman Won't Use Koran When Taking Oath of Office
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2006, 03:00:52 AM »
Everyone stands, raises their right hand and swears. No books of ancient mythology used.
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Desertdog

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Re: Muslim Congressman Won't Use Koran When Taking Oath of Office
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2006, 08:20:11 AM »
Quote
No books of ancient mythology used.
Nor Bibles.

Antibubba

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Re: Muslim Congressman Won't Use Koran When Taking Oath of Office
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2006, 05:24:54 PM »
I care less about what book is used than if it's done with a wink and a knowing smile.

Also, at some point as a Western religion gets more devout, the important moral issues begin to look similar: abortion. gay marriage.  Ellison may be in the party, but I'd be surprised if he in the middle of the platform.
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MechAg94

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Re: Muslim Congressman Won't Use Koran When Taking Oath of Office
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2006, 05:55:36 PM »
That is only because people worry more about other people's morals and not their own.
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

Target Farget

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Re: Muslim Congressman Won't Use Koran When Taking Oath of Office
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2006, 08:12:34 AM »
I say....... just shoot the bastard in case he is part of a sleeper cell.... where's Sol Huh? My point is........... He shouldn't be there to begin with. (imo) .. but, if he is , then he should be held to the same standards as all the rest of them. Other wise, why have a system or standards at all???

LAK

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Re: Muslim Congressman Won't Use Koran When Taking Oath of Office
« Reply #16 on: December 12, 2006, 03:07:42 AM »
Quote
Volokh also pointed to Article VI of the U.S. Constitution, which states that "no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States."
Why is swearing an oath of allegience and to support and defend the Constitution of the United States being confused with the terms "test" and "qualification"?

The qualifications are that he be a U.S. citizen, duly elected etc. I am sure the required qualifications have already been tested have they not?

Perverting the meaning of Art. VI to extend to the oath would have run it headlong into the last sentence of the oath more than 200 years ago.

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RayannaDeerfox

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Re: Muslim Congressman Won't Use Koran When Taking Oath of Office
« Reply #17 on: December 13, 2006, 10:51:35 AM »
Quote
Volokh also pointed to Article VI of the U.S. Constitution, which states that "no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States."

I'm pretty sure they meant "text" not "test".

Mannlicher

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Re: Muslim Congressman Won't Use Koran When Taking Oath of Office
« Reply #18 on: December 13, 2006, 01:12:34 PM »
it makes no difference.  Swearing on either will mean nothing to this guy.  His loyalty is not to the United States and its Constitution.  His loyalty is to whatever Imam gives him his marching orders.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Muslim Congressman Won't Use Koran When Taking Oath of Office
« Reply #19 on: December 13, 2006, 01:25:43 PM »
So he's a radical Muslim or something?
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Guest

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Re: Muslim Congressman Won't Use Koran When Taking Oath of Office
« Reply #20 on: December 13, 2006, 04:24:18 PM »
Yeah, don't you know? All Muslims are radical, bloodthirsty evil evil imps from the deepest bowels of hell. Just like all Christians are war-mongering Bush-supporters, intent on nothing but a new crusade in the Middle East and its complete destruction.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Muslim Congressman Won't Use Koran When Taking Oath of Office
« Reply #21 on: December 13, 2006, 05:36:57 PM »
Just like all Christians are war-mongering Bush-supporters, intent on nothing but a new crusade in the Middle East and its complete destruction.
I know I am.  I am, like, so down with that.
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Ron

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Re: Muslim Congressman Won't Use Koran When Taking Oath of Office
« Reply #22 on: December 13, 2006, 06:56:17 PM »


edited to add: don't get yourselves all worked up, Ann speaks in hyperbole all the time.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Muslim Congressman Won't Use Koran When Taking Oath of Office
« Reply #23 on: December 13, 2006, 07:08:47 PM »
One of Anne's more righteous statements. 
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Ron

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Re: Muslim Congressman Won't Use Koran When Taking Oath of Office
« Reply #24 on: December 13, 2006, 07:13:07 PM »
9/13/01

At that time I think there were a lot of people feeling a little medieval.