RIP Dollhouse

[BlueStarLizzard]

my take on that top 10 list:

arrested development definatly belongs there and, from what i've heard so does freaks and geeks. i saw an episode or two of the sheild and lost, both of which i would like to see eventually on dvd as i think they are shows that you cannot really jump in midway through.

i would like to see the UK version of the Office, as i love the UK coupling and can hardly beleive that show i saw once on NBC was based on the same thing.

the others... dont' know never saw them, although deadwood looks kinda cool.

[mtnbkr]

Deadwood was great.  I'd buy the entire show on DVD, but I'd never get to watch it when my kids are home and awake because of the language and violence.

Chris

[Silver Bullet]

There were two notable aspects about the language in Deadwood.

1, It was over the top profane.

2, When it wasn't being profane, it was extraordinarily formal, or something.  Several of the characters seemed to be straining to express themselves in as formal a manner as possible, and in the second season there were a couple episodes where it was comical watching some of the characters make a simple sentence complicated or convoluted.

[mtnbkr]

Yeah.  That was my main complaint with the show.  I loved the story and characters though.

Chris

[Silver Bullet]

Well, the profanity didn't bother me at all.  A few weeks of military boot camp will cure one of that.  It was mostly a lot of "cake"suckers, most notably "San Francisco cakesucker!"   

And I enjoyed the formal, rather stilted, language.  I kept wondering if people on the edges of civilization really spoke like that.  They didn't in Firefly !  Except maybe Simon in the first episode or two.

I also wondered how much that was said about George Hearst was true.  Wikipedia (!) confirms some of it, but nothing about his being a murderer.  Apparently he was a very accomplished geologist and was later a congressman.

What surprised me is that almost all of the main characters were true from history.  When I first started watching I figured just Wild Bill Hickok, his killer, and Calamity Jane.  Nope.

[red headed stranger]

I read an interview with the Deadwood creators a while back explaining their choices as it related to language in the show. 

They went with the rather over the top profanity because they had tried using profanity and curses from the era, but the characters just ended up sounding like Yosemite Sam and couldn't really be taken seriously by a 21st century audience.   

They also chose to have SOME of the charters speak in a stilted victorian style as a reminder of the time period and as a way of creating a more defined juxtaposition between the "civilized" and the "hoople."

[Silver Bullet]

An interesting essay:

http://www.noisetosignal.org/2009/11/put-away-the-dollhouse-part-one
http://www.noisetosignal.org/2009/11/put-away-the-dollhouse-part-two
http://www.noisetosignal.org/2009/11/put-away-the-dollhouse-part-three

I like this observation:

I Don’t Like Caroline
The woman that Echo used to be, Caroline, is eventually revealed to be exactly the kind of person nobody wants to watch. She’s a tediously right-on activist, plagued with a blah-blah troubled past. Who the hell has any interest in watching this girl emerge from her Active cocoon?

And this:

The thing that was meant to make Echo special was her ability to recall things, to beat the memory wipe, but it seems that’s happening with everyone. November and Sierra are exhibiting similar traits, and both seem to have far more interesting backstories. So if it’s not ‘who she is’ that makes her the centre of our focus - and how could it be? - and it’s not ‘what she’s going through’ that sets her apart...why, exactly, is this The Echo Show?

I like this comment from Whedonesque:

Dollhouse can really engage my mind. But my heart? Not so much

That really resonates with me; Dollhouse is a show whose concepts I enjoy thinking about more than whose stories I enjoy watching.  Briar Rose was enormous fun, though, and Epitaph One was fascinating in the direction the show took the technology.

And this comment:

Blank slates don't sell. Strong, iconic characters sell. That's why everybody loves Jayne, and almost nobody loves Echo

I don’t mean to imply I don’t like the show; I do !  I just find this reviewer’s comments very insightful as to maybe some of the reasons why I don’t like it in the way I do Firefly.  As previously pointed out, it's cerebral, but it doesn't have the heart of Firefly.

[agricola]

Bit of a rubbish top ten that in jfruser's link.  The Shield was - IMHO - massively overrated, as was Lost, and I defy anyone who is either British or who watched British TV during the late 80s/early 90s to watch Deadwood and not be lost in a permanent state of wonder at what on earth Lovejoy thinks he is doing.  From a British perspective, my top four (in no particular order) of the 00s* are:

i) Spaced - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vUfBOdSmBU&feature=related
ii) the original Life on Mars - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPE3zCvS0zA
iii) Firefly.  You can keep your remade BSG, your Star Trek: Enterprise, your remakes of V, this was by far the best scifi of the decade.
iv) The Thick of It - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNnWYBK74Jc (beware, the link is very, very NSFW).  This may well be an acquired taste, it is shot in a deliberately anti-West Wing (allegedly New Labour's collective favourite show) style and treats nearly every member of the British political class with approximately 10% of the contempt that they actually deserve.

* slightly expanded to include the first series of Spaced

[tyme]

I thought of a few more.

Defying Gravity
ReGenesis
Ghost in the Shell SAC

also +1 on Dexter now that I've seen it.

The Venture Brothers
FlashForward

[HankB]

iii) Firefly.  You can keep your remade BSG, your Star Trek: Enterprise, your remakes of V, this was by far the best scifi of the decade.

I'd find it hard to argue with that statement, since you added the qualifier ". . . of the decade." (Babylon 5 ran in the previous decade.)

I will note that some story arcs of the long-running Stargate franchise were quite good, too . . . it's unlikely we'll ever know how 10 years of Firefly, taken as a whole, would compare with 10 years of Stargate. (Ignore the awful Stargate: Universe that's running now. Please. :barf: )

[makattak]

I'd find it hard to argue with that statement, since you added the qualifier ". . . of the decade." (Babylon 5 ran in the previous decade.)

I will note that some story arcs of the long-running Stargate franchise were quite good, too . . . it's unlikely we'll ever know how 10 years of Firefly, taken as a whole, would compare with 10 years of Stargate. (Ignore the awful Stargate: Universe that's running now. Please. :barf: )

At times I think the single season of Firefly might be a blessing in disguise. I can think of no episode I consider bad. I am of the opinion that single season makes it one of the best shows ever produced.

Had it gone on for, say, five years, might that quality have deteriorated? I can't say for sure, but as much as I wish for more Firefly, I don't wish for BAD Firefly.

[Silver Bullet]

Had it gone on for, say, five years, might that quality have deteriorated?

Maybe, but maybe not.  For me, Star Trek Next Generation hit its peak in Seasons 6 and 7.  Firefly might have kept getting better and better.  And if not, I don't have to buy those episodes.

In Season 1, the characters with the mysterious backgrounds and developing (in varying degrees) story arcs were the passengers:  River, Book, and Inara.  It seems reasonable to me (and I doubt the network would have had the guts to allow it) to phase out passengers after their stories were revealed, and bring on new passengers, thus keeping the stories fresh.

[Perd Hapley]

Does anybody remember this one?  I really liked it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Above_and_Beyond

I'm not a real sci-fi geek, so I think that was the first sci-fi I had ever seen that really seemed connected with the world as we know it.  The props and clothing and such were not as futuristic and other-worldly as a lot of other shows, and they even carried M9 bayonets. 

[Silver Bullet]

I don't remember that, but that does look good.

I'm going to give it a try. 

Meanwhile ... Dollhouse returns with two episodes featuring Summer Glau this Friday.

[BlueStarLizzard]

I don't remember that, but that does look good.

I'm going to give it a try. 

Meanwhile ... Dollhouse returns with two episodes featuring Summer Glau this Friday.

 

[HankB]

Space Above and Beyond? I remember that . . . wasn't really one of my favorites.

About the only thing I recall clearly about that series was one episode in which a group of elite commandos were sneaking up on a target . . . and EVERY PIECE of equipment they were carrying/wearing rattled or clanged with each step . . . and when going through a stream, they splashed like a bunch of little kids jumping in a puddle. Might as well have been playing music on a boom box for all the stealth they displayed on this "covert" op . . . 

[41magsnub]

I think Space Above and Beyond was pretty marginal and totally see why it didn't get renewed.  I watched it when it came out, then watched it again on DVD and was pretty underwhelmed.  It was just not believable.  I have a problem with the whole concept of a Marine Fighter Squadron/Infantry unit among other things.

[agricola]

At times I think the single season of Firefly might be a blessing in disguise. I can think of no episode I consider bad. I am of the opinion that single season makes it one of the best shows ever produced.

Had it gone on for, say, five years, might that quality have deteriorated? I can't say for sure, but as much as I wish for more Firefly, I don't wish for BAD Firefly.

I dunno - I would have liked to see Firefly end naturally, rather than having seen it get cut off,  That said, your point is valid as anyone who has compared old vs new Futurama would recognize.

[MicroBalrog]

I don't know.

Imagine 7 seasons of Firefly.

Films.

An expanded universe with good writers writing for it.

Comics.

Toys.

Collectible.

A PnP RPG on the D20 system.

It would be glorious.

[Silver Bullet]

Last night's two episodes with Summer Glau were good, with the following high points:

1. Summer was very good in her part
2. Victor imprinted as Topher was astonishingly good; jeez, what an actor
3. Nice twist with the reveal of the senator
4. At some point, I remember thinking "this is good sci-fi"

and low points:

1. At some point, I remember thinking "I miss Firefly."

[BlueStarLizzard]

Last night's two episodes with Summer Glau were good, with the following high points:

1. Summer was very good in her part
2. Victor imprinted as Topher was astonishingly good; jeez, what an actor
3. Nice twist with the reveal of the senator
4. At some point, I remember thinking "this is good sci-fi"

and low points:

1. At some point, I remember thinking "I miss Firefly."

dad made the same comment about Victor. I also liked that the dolls in DC where named after gods?godesses rather then the military alphabet.

[Perd Hapley]

Also, if one puts an ounce of thought into it, one understands that there are almost no sympathetic characters and most are just plain evil.

I just started watching a random episode of Dollhouse on Hulu (my first), and it occurred to me that I've never liked Eliza Dushku very much in any role in which I've seen her.  Maybe it's just me, or maybe she's just not a likable actress, and thus can't carry a show. 

I guess she seems like a mean person for some reason. 

[neviander]

Is this an anti 24 thread?  24 is the only series that I can force myself to sit through commercials for any more.  What is the running commentary for 24 on APS, I haven't been here for a while :)

[roo_ster]

Is this an anti 24 thread?  24 is the only series that I can force myself to sit through commercials for any more.  What is the running commentary for 24 on APS, I haven't been here for a while :)

I've never seen an episode of 24.

[Jamisjockey]

I've never seen an episode of 24.

You're not missing much.  Constant crisis, someone is always turning double agent, and Jack is running around the country breaking every rule and violating civil and human rights to solve the crisis.  Jack booted thuggery and win at all costs at its worst.