I Dare You To Try This

[Suoiruf Selyts]

Just in case any of you are in the mistaken belief that I'm licking my wounds, I'm not. I'm busy with stuff today and I'll respond later when it's appropriate.

[Ktulu]

Might work in Canada.

[Gewehr98]

I still cannot believe...

When I was an assistant grade school teacher in Sacramento, the district school board wanted me to learn Spanish, so the kids who couldn't speak English in class could understand their teacher(s).   :evil:

[doczinn]

Just face it, guys - the only reason you don't like mojados is because you're racist against all hispanics. [end sarcasm]

[Stand_watie]

Just face it, guys - the only reason you don't like mojados is because you're racist against all hispanics. [end sarcasm]

What does that word mean? I ask because two hispanic guys I work with were talking the other day about one of them's family member getting hit by an uninsured driver, and I think the other one asked if the guy was 'mojados". I'm not sure, he might've said Mujanes or something that sounds similar to that to my english only ear.

[Ghostrider66]

"Mojado" is the slang term for "wet-back" referring to someone (usually from Mexico) who is here illegally.  Never really understood the term because the river is very, very low in most places and you don't really get all that wet crossing it....have done it several times.

[Stand_watie]

"Mojado" is the slang term for...referring to someone (usually from Mexico) who is here illegally.  Never really understood the term because the river is very, very low in most places and you don't really get all that wet crossing it....have done it several times

Does it have the same perjorative connotation that the "w" word does? Interestingly enough I heard the same guy use that particular term as well while talking to a different hispanic coworker (yeah, I'm the token white guy on the unit).

[Perd Hapley]

"Un dia sin mexicanos"  Very interesting.  Feel free to correct my espanol, and forgive my lack of atildes, etc.  Can I do those online?

I wonder if we would have a "need" for undocumented labor if welfare weren't a better option for so many Americans.  

full-fist

[Ghostrider66]

Stand-watie

Not as far as I've been able to detect.  Mostly it just gives the feel of being of a lower class.  Kind of like kids teasing each other I've also seen.  Not really fighting words though.  I've also heard it used legitimately as a shortcut to asking if someone is documented (legal) or not.  I wouldn't suggest using it unless you are on friendly terms with the person just cause it would seem impolite.

fistful:

I think that it becomes a twisted argument as to whether undocumented aliens are needed or not.  They more than likely wouldn't be here if the economic demand wasn't there but the plain and simple truth is that they are "illegal" so the reprecusions they face if they were to be caught and prosecuted are there (like that'll ever happen).  Furthermore, being here illegally and getting away with it, I don't think, gives them license to not want to adapt and certainly doesn't give them a footing to make any demands of the US.  I do agree at least somewhat though on the welfare system having made its impact economically to the entire situation.

[Stand_watie]

Stand-watie..I've also heard it used legitimately as a shortcut to asking if someone is documented (legal) or not.  I wouldn't suggest using it unless you are on friendly terms with the person just cause it would seem impolite.

That was the implication I thought from the context...as you're well aware, here in Texas there is a stereotype (whether or not it's justified is for another discussion) that if you're hit by an uninsured driver there is a good chance they are an illegal alien.

Something else I found out to my surprise, from the same guy, is that apparently there is some racial (I know racial isn't the correct term, but I can't think of a better) tension between what he calls "chicanos" (native Texans of Mexican ethnicity) and "Mexicans". He says that "Mexicans" look down on them because they're bi-lingual.

11 years I've been here, and I had thought "Mexican" was the accepted generic term for hispanic in Texas, but I was obviously wrong.

[Ghostrider66]

Very interesting but from my perspective "bilingual" is a bit overly generous.  I prefer "illiterate in two languages" and that's more likely the reason that they are looked down upon.  The desire to not want to adapt but the reality that people do over time is what the problem is in my estimation.  What results is usually a complete loss of culture.  One can learn some of the traditions from the homeland while here but without experiencing them there, the underlying culture is usually not learned.  Conversely, while wanting to learn your ancestral and not those of your new land you also fail to gain whatever culture may exist there.  You'll even have people try to deny their Mexican ancestry after a couple of generations...don't even get me started on those folks.

[Stand_watie]

I know this is a little tangental to the discussion, but my opinion is that we need is a great deal more legal immigration from Mexico, and a great deal less illegal.

We do need the cheap labor, but we need it without the side effects of the persons entering being criminal to start with and living in an illegal underworld. And we need a secure border where persons are screened in advance for criminality, terror connections etc.

I think people who actually want to immigrate here and become Americans (and bring their wife/kids with them) should be moved to the front of the line of people applying for work visas.

Very interesting but from my perspective "bilingual" is a bit overly generous.  I prefer "illiterate in two languages" and that's more likely the reason that they are looked down upon

I can't speak for all of them, or for their spanish skills, but the guys I'm referring to speak English as well as I do, except that when they're talking to each other they have a little Cheech Marin accent. When they're talking to me they sound like Joe American.

[Ghostrider66]

I didn't mean it to be insulting or even limit it to linguistic ability but rather to the lack of in depth knowledge and history that usually comes with being a native.  It's usually subtle but I find it interesting that you brought up the Cheech Marin analogy.  The movie "Born in East L.A." illustrates beautifully how well a person regarded as Mexican on one side can be completely alien when put into a true Mexican culture.  I don't want to paint with too broad a brush here, but usually you'll find that the ones with the biggest chips on their shoulders (on both sides of the fence) are the ones with least of amount of their respective cultures.  Nice people tend to get along in almost any situation.

[Stand_watie]

I didn't mean it to be insulting or even limit it to linguistic ability but rather to the lack of in depth knowledge and history that usually comes with being a native.  It's usually subtle but I find it interesting that you brought up the Cheech Marin analogy.  The movie "Born in East L.A." illustrates beautifully how well a person regarded as Mexican on one side can be completely alien when put into a true Mexican culture.  I don't want to paint with too broad a brush here, but usually you'll find that the ones with the biggest chips on their shoulders (on both sides of the fence) are the ones with least of amount of their respective cultures.  Nice people tend to get along in almost any situation.

I can't argue with that.  The guys that I'm referring to are just as American as I am culturally, and more Texan than I am culturally. Other than speaking spanish I doubt they have any more cultural knowledge or cultural identity with Mexico than does the average O'Riley who was born in Boston does with Ireland.

[Perd Hapley]

Mexican and non-Mexican resentment against Guadalupe-Hidalgo is part of what I might call "the error of historical vacuum."  That is, failing to consider how alternate pasts may have changed the present.  

Had the Mexican Empire used its superior military force to defeat the ostensibly weaker American military and kept its land, would Mexicans be better off now?  Would Mexicans living in the ceded area have fared better under Mexican rather than American governance?  Consider Mexico's prolonged political instability.  Or did the Mexican upper-class flee the affected areas?  I don't recall, and I have packed up most of my books and moved them to my new digs just this evening.  Pity.  

Certainly the riches of California, both in land and oro, would have benefitted Mexico, but enough to offset the expense of securing the vast desert and mountain areas, and patrolling the coasts?  Also, Mexico would have borne the cost of "pacifying" the aborigines on both sides of the Rio Bravo.  

In sum, would there be jobs to cross the river for if Mexico had owned the land for the past 150 years?

This is only an off-the-cuff assesment.  Enlighten me.

Furioso, ¿dónde estás?

[Ghostrider66]

fistful,

I think that like a lot of Latin American countries, the modern problems find their roots with the following of communist/socialist ideals into a revolution that is eventually successful.  Most of the glorified Mexican heroes from Francisco (Pancho) Villa to Emiliano Zapata gain fame and power through the old standard of putting down those greedy landowners and giving out the land to the poor peasants (who don't do much but eek out a measly existance with it).  This essentially killed any agricultural growth that had begun in the country.  Most countries that didn't fiddle with this little experiment eventually saw the fall of the "greedy landowners" by the onset of industrialization followed by the technology age.  By going the way of active redistribution, it stalled progress for 70+ years (oil and mining being some of the only industies to really thrive and those were government owned/controlled).  When the maquiladora movement began in Mexico bringing the first real industrial revolution, you began to hear the tired old mantra of exploitation of the working class, etc which of course retards progress even further.  The single most important economic issue that has been considered but never truly explored in Mexico is the free market.  You can only imagine had this been implimented at any part during the 20th century, with all of the natural assets, Mexico would probably be a richer country than ours.