Author Topic: 7-11 drops Citgo as it fuel supplier  (Read 9297 times)

Ron

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7-11 drops Citgo as it fuel supplier
« Reply #25 on: October 01, 2006, 02:36:50 PM »
The fact that he espouses communism and is quickly assuming dictatorial powers is enough to not like him.

Funny how communism implemented immediately becomes a dictatorship, or an oligarchy at best.

You can tell a lot about a man by his friends.

thebaldguy

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« Reply #26 on: October 01, 2006, 02:38:59 PM »
One might say that George W is assuming dictorial powers. Haven't you seen our civil rights disappearing? Due process? Warrantless searches? What's happening here?

Lee

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« Reply #27 on: October 01, 2006, 03:31:34 PM »
The whole point of boycotting anything is largely symbolic...but sometimes it can cause people to think more carefully about what they say, or how they say it.   I'm not thrilled about buying oil from overseas period, but to ignore aholes like Chavez by carrying on like normal, is just not right.  How is that any different than complaining about, or boycotting, any other company that treats you unfairly or takes a stand that you strongly disagree with?  Those companies need to be sent a message... even if that message negatively affects people at the bottom of the corporate food chain first.

Lee

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« Reply #28 on: October 01, 2006, 03:34:23 PM »
"One might say that George W is assuming dictorial powers. Haven't you seen our civil rights disappearing? Due process? Warrantless searches? What's happening here?"

So I guess it's safe to assume that you won't be voting for him for dog catcher or buying any products he might sell in the future?  So, how is that different and what's your point?

thebaldguy

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« Reply #29 on: October 01, 2006, 03:42:07 PM »
Uh, Lee...I must be missing something. What's your point, Lee? I just made a statement about how I think it's funny that getting rid of Citgo fuel makes people feel better or changes things. Again, you can boycott anyone or anything you want.

Perd Hapley

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« Reply #30 on: October 01, 2006, 05:00:11 PM »
Quote from: thebaldguy
Chavez spoke at the UN. He can say what he wants, whether you like it or not. And you have the right to buy whatever wherever you want. Boycott whoever you want. It's your choice.
What point do you intend to make with such obvious statements of fact?
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Dannyboy

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« Reply #31 on: October 01, 2006, 05:16:50 PM »
I love the irony of defending "free speech" for someone who has pretty much abolished that very thing in the country he runs.
Oh, Lord, please let me be as sanctimonious and self-righteous as those around me, so that I may fit in.

Perd Hapley

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« Reply #32 on: October 01, 2006, 05:28:27 PM »
How about the irony of worrying about Chavez's free speech when he has an entire country and an oil fortune to support any message he wishes to broadcast, not to mention good relations with plenty of other nations sympathetic to his nonsense?  Especially when his sworn enemy, the US, allows him to come and speak in churches in New York City and own a corporation in Texas.  Poor, poor, put-upon guy.
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Ron

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« Reply #33 on: October 01, 2006, 07:39:02 PM »
Quote
One might say that George W is assuming dictorial powers. Haven't you seen our civil rights disappearing? Due process? Warrantless searches? What's happening here?
If you think there are any parallels between President Bush and President Chavez then you are drinking some serious Kool-Aid.

thebaldguy

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« Reply #34 on: October 02, 2006, 01:57:30 PM »
Yes GoRon, do some homework. Our rights have been slowly disappearing. What have you been drinking? Where have you been for the last 5 years? Ever heard of the Patriot Act?

My point is that if Chavez is worthy of a boycott, there are a lot worse governments out there that are worthy of a boycott. Like Saudi Arabia and China for example.

Lee

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« Reply #35 on: October 02, 2006, 04:39:33 PM »
"My point is that if Chavez is worthy of a boycott, there are a lot worse governments out there that are worthy of a boycott. Like Saudi Arabia and China for example."

And it's a valid one...however, the top officials of SA and China aren't touring the US and calling our President a drunken terrorist.

The Rabbi

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« Reply #36 on: October 02, 2006, 04:47:13 PM »
Quote from: thebaldguy
Yes GoRon, do some homework. Our rights have been slowly disappearing. What have you been drinking? Where have you been for the last 5 years? Ever heard of the Patriot Act?

My point is that if Chavez is worthy of a boycott, there are a lot worse governments out there that are worthy of a boycott. Like Saudi Arabia and China for example.
Uh oh.
Baldguy, exactly what rights of yours have been restricted by the USAPatriot act?  Give me two specific examples of things you commonly did prior to the act and cannot do now.
Because in Venezuala they have no rights anymore.  Gov;t confiscated privately owned guns (sound familiar?), closed down press, etc etc.  Anyone who wants to compare the situation in the U.S. with Venezuala, and GWB with Chavez and finds them equivalent really has no moral standing.
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thebaldguy

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« Reply #37 on: October 02, 2006, 05:24:47 PM »
Ok Rabbi.  Your question is questionable. It's almost unrealistic to ask what I used to do that I can't do now. I still drive a car and travel freely? Yes. Go to a store and buy what I like ? Yes. Can I fly on a plane? Well, yes, with tons of hassles that didn't exist before the Patriot Act. That hasn't really changed. That's not the point. Our privacy is being taken away. Rights in the Bill of Rights are being twisted. I don't need to be accused of not having a moral standing because I'm comparing the similaries between Chavez and Bush. You may have went to a Yeshiva, but I have a degree in Political Science.

Government snooping without a warrant. A gathering database of personal info. Scaning emails, phone calls, and all electronic communications. Access to bank accounts and medical records. My right to privacy with a doctor no longer exists. Remember that one, Rabbi? I'm not a lawbreaker, but I feel that info gathering/searches without a warrant are illegal. I feel my privacy has been invaded without probable cause and without a warrant.

Protesters cannot always exercise their free speech. They are being corraled in so called "free speech zones". Isn't this a violation? I think so. I don't really care if you or anyone else says it isn't.

Unlawful detention without access to bail, lawyers, due process, etc. to anyone declared an enemy of the state. People detained for holding up a sign that says "Bush Lied" along a parade/motorcade route. Most anyone can be declared an enemy of the state. Is this good enough for you? Sounds like Venezuela. Or someplace worse.

I think our rights to privacy and due process are slowly being taken away. Or do you blindly support an encroaching police state? I don't. Perhaps you need to do some libertarian reading.

Are the leader of China and Saudi Arabia better than Chavez because they violate human rights but don't call Bush names? I think not. My point is that if you boycott Chavez, you might be a hyprocrite if you don't boycott China and Saudi products as well. There's a lot to boycott in this world.


Here's a copy of our Bill of Rights. Read it. Learn it. Live it. Protect it.


Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.


Amendment II
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.


Amendment III
No soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.


Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.


Amendment VI
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.


Amendment VII
In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise reexamined in any court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.


Amendment VIII
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.


Amendment IX
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.


Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

Perd Hapley

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« Reply #38 on: October 02, 2006, 07:52:17 PM »
Thanks, Baldie, I've been waiting for one of you smart-guy types to release the text of the BoR to us unschooled, knee-jerk, Bush- supporters.  I suddenly feel so much more integilent!
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The Rabbi

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« Reply #39 on: October 03, 2006, 02:50:56 AM »
The short answer to my question is "nothing."  There is nothing that you can't do now that you used to be able to do.  THere has been no erosion of rights here.  Airport security has nothing to do with USAPAtriot.  Those changes occurred regardless of the act.
Why don't you compare that to the situation in Venezuala where people really have lost rights?
And for the record, I did not go to yeshiva.  I did go to university (Vanderbilt) and did get a degree and I think I have a better grasp on the BoR than you do, given your responses to this discussion.
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280plus

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« Reply #40 on: October 03, 2006, 03:11:03 AM »
Quote
I just filled two vehicles last night for 1.99 per. Tongue
That's it Fistful, I've had just about all I can take from you with THAT comment. Take your banstick and wop yourself with it! Tongue
Avoid cliches like the plague!

Perd Hapley

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« Reply #41 on: October 03, 2006, 03:13:57 AM »
If only I had one.  Wink  Some places are down to 1.95 here.  I live right next to Lambert International Airport, and the gas station right outside the airport gates is always ten cents higher than normal.  Must be nice to have that kind of mark-up.
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Ron

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« Reply #42 on: October 03, 2006, 03:17:28 AM »
Quote
Thanks, Baldie, I've been waiting for one of you smart-guy types to release the text of the BoR to us unschooled, knee-jerk, Bush- supporters.  I suddenly feel so much more integilent!
Don't misunderestimate yourself Fistful.

Quote
Our rights have been slowly disappearing. What have you been drinking? Where have you been for the last 5 years?
Ha ha ha, where have you been for the last 20,30 or more years. The encroachment on our rights has been going on in slow motion for many years (long before GWB) with occasional reversals.

Ultimately Rabbi is correct, for all the sound and fury over lost rights there has been very little lost. Slippery slope argument? There we might get some agreement, the momentum is against freedom. That is why we need eternal vigilance.

If you feel that hooking up with the Libertarian Clown Posse is going to help presrve our rights then more power to you. I came to the conclusion (like Ron Paul) that influencing and changing the R's from within is our only chance.

thebaldguy

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« Reply #43 on: October 03, 2006, 01:43:18 PM »
Sorry folks, but many Bush supporters are not real conservatives, but really Right Wing Authoritarians. People like myself who are actually true conservatives (I consider myself a true conservative with libertiarian leanings who happens to be a Republican) question the answers. Sorry I disagreed with you folks. Sorry for questioning your point of view and your reasoning about a Citgo boycott.

from fistful:

"Thanks, Baldie, I've been waiting for one of you smart-guy types to release the text of the BoR to us unschooled, knee-jerk, Bush- supporters.  I suddenly feel so much more integilent!"

Hey fistful, I thought you looked smarter after my post! I also noticed you spelled "intelligent" wrong. Work on your spelling.

Ron

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« Reply #44 on: October 03, 2006, 02:29:00 PM »
Quote
Sorry folks, but many Bush supporters are not real conservatives, but really Right Wing Authoritarians. People like myself who are actually true conservatives (I consider myself a true conservative with libertiarian leanings who happens to be a Republican) question the answers. Sorry I disagreed with you folks. Sorry for questioning your point of view and your reasoning about a Citgo boycott.
We are all here to have fun and sometimes to be challenged. This place would be an echo chamber if we all agreed all the time!

A lot of what you said I partially agree with. I am not ready to jump ship and turn over the reigns to left quite yet.

You have nothing to apologize for that I can see.

Perd Hapley

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« Reply #45 on: October 03, 2006, 02:31:58 PM »
Oh.  Me not spelll gud.

Baldguy, I don't know how much you hang out here, but if you think we're all mindless Bush tools, you're just dead wrong.  And anyone here who defends him is as likely to be libertarian as conservative, so we're not surprised by what you have to say.  Your first post was thought-provoking and you'll find plenty of sympathy for lost rights here.  I'm sure we would also be on board to boycott Middle Eastern oil and Chinese imports.  So would half of America, so tell us what to do.  

However, you made an equivalence between Bush and Chavez, and such nonsense will get you flamed.  No one to blame but yourself.  And you gain no points by ignoring good questions, such as:

Quote from: fistful
Quote from: thebaldguy
Why do you deny President Chavez the same freedom of speech that you enjoy? I hate to burst your bubble, but Bush is not the perfect president. Why do you folks hate Chavez so much? Is it because he refuses to become another third world American puppet?
Who's denying Chavez's rights?

Who said Bush is perfect and how is that relevant?  

Who hates Chavez and why would that matter?

A reasonable leader could find a LOT of middle ground between being a "puppet" and calling the American President the devil.  Especially with much better candidates on the field.  I assume you've heard of Amadinijad and bin Laden?
Quote from: fistful
Quote from: thebaldguy
Chavez spoke at the UN. He can say what he wants, whether you like it or not. And you have the right to buy whatever wherever you want. Boycott whoever you want. It's your choice.
What point do you intend to make with such obvious statements of fact?
Thank you.

P.S. Pleese infrom mee wear I half made any speling missteaks in this post, ass wel.
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thebaldguy

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« Reply #46 on: October 03, 2006, 03:33:56 PM »
As an amateur stand up commedian, I couldn't help but make fun of a guy who spelled intelligent wrong. Sorry, but I had to pull the trigger on that one. As far as being flamed, I've been heckled by the best. My skin is thicker than the thickest bullhide. Give me you best shot. I can take it as well as dish it out.

I never said that I think that all here are mindless Bush tools; I was suprised at how upset people got when I compared the similarities to Chavez. And there are some similarities.  I had great hopes when he was first elected years ago. I'm just a little disappointed about how things are going today.

As far as boycotts against China and Saudi Arabia, we have already been sold down the river by our elected officals. I don't think I could determine where various petroleum products came from. Try and live your life by just using products which have not been made by countries with oppresive regimes. Good luck. Yikes. My sister gave me an extra drip coffee maker a few years ago. She had it for a while, didn't need it, and I needed a new one. I noticed that it was a Proctor Silex made in America. We both laughed. We haven't seen an American made appliance in a long time.

My newest car is a Toyota, made in California. I never thought I'd buy one. But many GM and Ford products are now made in Mexico. More and more Japanese cars are now being made in America by Americans. At least an American got paid a decent wage to assemble my car.

Electronics? Have fun trying to find something made in the USA. Same with clothing. Even a lot of furniture comes from outside the US.

So what can be done? I'm open to ideas. I love the idea of not giving my hard earned money to some rotten country who practices civil/human rights violations. Maybe this is the start of something good. Maybe it's time for a change.

Perd Hapley

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« Reply #47 on: October 03, 2006, 03:52:50 PM »
Quote from: thebaldguy
Try and live your life by just using products which have not been made by countries with oppresive regimes. Good luck.
Right.  So why did you make fun of those who boycott CITGO?  At least there we have a clear target and can boycott at least one bad guy.  To each his own, I guess.

I thought "integilent" was a pretty obvious joke.  I mean that's at least two errors, or three depending on how you count them.  Was I wrong?
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thebaldguy

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« Reply #48 on: October 03, 2006, 04:17:14 PM »
Quote from: thebaldguy
I think it's funny that so many people are against Citgo because of Chavez. How about we drop Saudi oil from our gas stations for civil rights abuses? I don't hear many people screaming about that. Their civil rights record is pretty bad. I think if any oil should be boycotted, it should be against Saudi Arabia.
It was not my intention to make fun of anyone who wants to boycott Citgo; I just wanted to point out the fact that only boycotting Citgo (and no other products from countries with repressive regimes) seemed funny. As a comedian, I am required by comic law to point out the obvious humorous situations; like mispelling intelligent.

On a similar note, I once worked for a financial company that fired American workers and moved the jobs to India. During the conference, they kept using phrases like rightsizing, strategic employee reallocation, employee realignment, job restructuring, outsourcing, etc. Never did they use the word layoff. I finally raised my hand and asked if we were going to be laid off. People laughed. The human resoruces people were not amused, and still refused to use the phrase layoff.

Later they explained that economics was the main driving force behind the layoff. Much to the disappointment of the HR folks, I raised my hand again. I stated that if this was economics, we should fire the American president who made millions a year to hire an Indian president who would do just as good a job for 90% less. Again, the soon to be unemployed workers laughed, and the HR folks refused to consider my suggestion. They seemed more annoyed this time, but I got in a good laugh and made people smile.

After I left, this same company had the nerve to send me credit card applications for their products. I called them back, and begged them to ask me why I wouldn't ever get their card. They asked, and I told them I could never do business with company that fired American employees and moved the jobs overseas. I also told them to take me off their list, and never to contact me in any manner again.

Lee

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« Reply #49 on: October 03, 2006, 04:30:32 PM »
"During the conference, they kept using phrases like rightsizing, strategic employee reallocation, employee realignment, job restructuring, outsourcing, etc. Never did they use the word layoff."

Dont forget R.I.F. (Reduction In Force).  That's the one our company uses.