Suicide

[Monkeyleg]

I hope this isn't too depressing. I just found the story very unusual.

When I was having a long talk with my ex-boss the other day, he told me about a close friend of his who committed suicide when his business got really bad.

What was odd was that the guy had organized everything he owned, and then boxed the stuff up, and labeled each box with the name of the person he wanted to bequeath the stuff to. He even filled out FedEx slips for his friends out of town.

When the night finally arrived, his car wouldn't start. And he had planned to asphyxiate himself in the garage. So, he pushed the car across the street to a repair garage and had it fixed. Then he parked in his garage and turned on the engine.

He had to have been working on this for quite some time.

I mentioned this to my wife, and she said that if she were going to commit suicide, she would do the same thing. I just said, "well, at least you've let me know what the warning signs would be."

Has anyone else ever heard of a person doing this?

[Perd Hapley]

I suspect foul play.

[CAnnoneer]

I can't see why it would be so strange that he'd like to put his affairs in order before shedding the mortal coil. If anything, it is evidence in favor of the theory that it was a planned suicide.

[StopTheGrays]

A person who used to work at the company I work for visited a bunch of people that still worked there a week before killing himself. One of those people said he never seen this guy look so calm and collected before.

[Lee]

Yes, I've heard of people doing that...and yes, I probably would to.  Fail to plan - plan to fail.

[Third_Rail]

Many people who decide to kill themselves quite literally become euphoric. All cares are shuffled aside, and life is heavenly. They're able to be calm, cool, collected, and quite capable of what they perceive as rational thought (getting affairs in order, etc.)


I'd say that's actually common behavior.

[Moondoggie]

If I were to find out that I had a terminal illness that involved dying unpleasantly I'd take the same course.  Otherwise, it's a permanent solution to temporary problems.

Pills, a few of my favorite libations, crank the stero in the car in the garage, sit down on the floor behind the car (to make removal of the remains as easy as possible for the public servants, don't want to inconvenience anybody more than necessary) and cruise off to whatever happens next.

However, there are 2 people that I would pay a visit to first to ensure that they were waiting for me on the other side.  (Hopefully one of them, the murderer, would be "out" by then so I could get my hands on him.)  Then we could tussle for eternity!

I'd be sure to tie up all loose ends so that others didn't have to.

[Firethorn]

I have to have regular suicide prevention training, and indeed, setting your affairs in order and giving away your stuff are signs of a potential suicide.

So isn't making plans, confessing about thinking about it, buying a gun* or other suicide impliments.  I had to sit suicide watch in basic, they take any sort of that stuff very seriously.  Of course, having had people hang themselves in the showers, I would be too.


*Personally I object to this, but that's what they say.

[Perd Hapley]

CAnnoneer, I thought it was obvious I was joking.

[Antibubba]

There's also the thought, twisted as it is, that he or she doesn't want to more of a bother or nuisance than they already are-as if organized affairs can fill the void of a sudden death.

And if we're picking our preferred methods, hypothermia sounds nice, somewhere in the mountains with a nice final view.

[Monkeyleg]

Antibubba, for those so inclined, the thought of suicide might sound nice.

But it's a chickenshit way to go, because it only makes the suicidee (is that a word?) feel better.

The people who are really hurt are the spouses, relatives and friends.

I'm sure you realize that. My point is that this guy had what seems to be a lot of time to think about all of the above, but seemed to think that his friends and relatives would appreciate getting whatever possessions he had over having him alive.

I don't recall the numbers, but many if not most people at least think about suicide at some time in their lives.

I have. And there's no way I'd put my wife, my parents, and everyone else I know through that experience. Even if I were at that point.

I tested myself when I was at my lowest point by keeping my loaded .45 on the nightstand. I never went for it, or even thought of going for it.

(Note to Hunter Rose: if you want to question that last paragraph, email me).

[charby]

My dad just sent me an email the other day about a co worker of his who commited suicide, his coworker also planned out his suicide aslo. It ended differently than Monkeyleg's friend.

I guess some people just don't think about tomorow is all I could think about when I read the email.



If you want to read about it search the Birmingham, Alabama newspapers for the past week or so.

-C

[AJ Dual]

Avoiding a more unplesant death or comitting suicide to control a death that is inevitable anyway, I can understand.

But borne of depression or self-loathing, I have a hard time wrapping my mind around it.

My point of view always was if you're so hopeless, worthless, and a screw-up etc. and life is so horrible for you, why do you deserve to escape?

Looking at it that way got me through a rough patch a little over a decade ago...

The other obvious upshot is that you're still alive when things are better too.

[Monkeyleg]

"...if you're so hopeless, worthless, and a screw-up etc. and life is so horrible for you, why do you deserve to escape? "

Absolutely right. That's what jobs were made for.

On a much more serious note, I always thought that I had a little insight into the suicidal mindset. But, after experiencing relatives and friends or friends of friends offing themselves, I don't think I understand it at all.

The depression I can understand. I've been there, so low that I can't even fathom the depths.

But another part of my mind was trying to figure out how to get back to where I wanted to be.

As I've been caterwalling to other APS members in other threads, this whole life experience comes around just once. It's an enormous gift, one that I don't really understand why I was even given in the first place.

But I can't understand just giving it up.

[gunsmith]

this is a good thread

[spinr]

Well, I'm kinda late to the convo...

But it's true about suicidal folk putting things in order.

A friend of mine used to work for a medical examiner's office in Florida a number of years ago.

We spent the better part of a Saturday talking about his experiences and such.  He dug out his old files, photos, and slides of cases he worked and showed them to me.

A great number of the suicides he investigated involved people that had planned for it and the aftermath very carefully.

One that struck me in particular...

An older gentleman living alone, a WWII veteran, shot himself.  He laid out all of his important papers, bills & such, left notes on what to do with each, and finally a detailed letter of why he chose to commit suicide.

He even went so far as to detail exactly why & how he did the deed.

He committed the act in his garage; for two reasons.  First, so he didn't make a mess in the living area, hoping that someone might find use of the house later on.  And second, because of the way it was built.  It so happened the floor of the garage was laid on a slight incline and any liquids that found their way into the garage would flow down the incline and out through the roll-up door opening.

He picked a spot close to the door, laid down with his wartime bring-back Colt Gov't 1911, and shot himself in the head.

As he'd planned, the blood from the wound slowly ran down the incline and out the doorway  He had opened the roll-up door just slightly to allow the blood to flow out to the driveway where it would eventually be found...

Which it was.  I don't recall exactly who found it.  Was a neighbor or service worker I believe, but his plan had worked perfectly.

I don't often get emotional about much of anything but I was pretty damn choked up after hearing the story and seeing the photos.

[Monkeyleg]

What a class act, spin180. The guy made sure that someone would be at the very least grossed out by what they found.

If I were going to commit suicide, I certainly wouldn't want to use a gun. Having my wife find me with blood spattered all over would be an experience she would never be able to get out of her mind. It would be cruel.

[Firethorn]

I'll say that I understand suicide only in an abstract fashion.  I personally think that it's acceptable only in the most extreme situations.  I'm not an absolutionist by nature.

What do I consider extreme?

1.  Terminal illness.  You're going to die anyways, in pain, loose your mind, destroy that nestegg you've built up for your (worthy) descendants.
2.  Imminent capture by torture/kill gang, with no hope of rescue.  Though I'd prefer to make them kill me by killing as many of them as possible.*

*Most frequently chosen choice for deployed servicemembers.  Note that in order to capture one of oursoldiers they had to kill the rest of the squad and grab a guy shocked into unconsiousness by an IED.

[grampster]

A friend of mine of nearly 40 years killed himself last Sunday.  He was one of the most upbeat, positive people I have ever known.  He was very ordely, planned everything he did.  He'd had polio as a youth and wore a brace and limped.  It never got him down that I ever saw.  He raced large sailboats, was a hunter and a handiman.  Very active guy in spite of his handicap.

His wife called me last Sunday morning and told me that he had just died, unexpectedly she said.  I had no idea at that time that he had killed himself.  When we went to the funeral home, I asked her if he'd had a sudden stroke or a heart attack.  She told me then that he had killed himself.  To say that I was stunned would be an understatement.

I knew that he'd come down with Parkinson's disease recently.  She also told me that his hearing was going and he was having vision problems too.  I didn't know that.
She said that he had told her that when he felt he was on the verge of deteriorating so that he'd have to be burden or institutionalized that he would commit suicide.  But he never told her that he was going to do it now.  He planned everything and had everything in order.  That was his way.

[spinr]

What a class act, spin180. The guy made sure that someone would be at the very least grossed out by what they found.

If I were going to commit suicide, I certainly wouldn't want to use a gun. Having my wife find me with blood spattered all over would be an experience she would never be able to get out of her mind. It would be cruel.

Well... no not really.  At least that's not the impression I got.

I left a fair amount of details out.

The guy actually took a lot of care to make sure he didn't leave a mess.

Save for the relatively small blood trail out the door, it wasn't messy at all.

He specifically stated in his letter that he tried to minimize the impact of the gore, and said he was sorry for whatever mess there would be and offered an apology to whoever had to clean it up.  In fact he aimed the gun so that most of the spatter & spray would be directed downward to the floor.

The photos of the scene really tell the tale.  

You just have to see & hear the story first hand.

[Perd Hapley]

 I'm not an absolutionist by nature.

So, you're not very forgiving?  

[Firethorn]

 I'm not an absolutionist by nature.

So, you're not very forgiving?  

That too .

Absolute - something that is free from any restriction or condition.

IE the types that are like 'Death penalty is wrong in every situation', 'Abortion is always wrong', etc...  That don't make any conditions where something would be acceptable.

I'm a more of a 'there's an exception to every rule' type.  Kinda like a anti-abortionist who'd accept an abortion in the case of rape or serious health issue.

[CAnnoneer]

Then you are an anti-absolutist, or a relativist, depending on which modern connotation you hate less. But, anti-absolutionist is strictly speaking anti-forgiveness, i.e. "an eye for an eye".

[Lennyjoe]

Personally I think suicide is a selfish act.  You check out early, leave your worries behind and leave a life of pain and misery for those who loved you.  

Then again, if you were truely loved then the signs should of been caught before the deed was done.  Sometimes though, the indicators can slip on by and the act is accomplished.  

I have no thoughts of such an act and would never end this life on that note.  Life is too short to do such a thing.  

Lost one co-worker to suicide and no one and I mean no one seen it coming.  Great kid, hard worker, got along with everyone and was only in the Air Force for 1 year.  Used a shotgun while sitting in his car.  

Second co worker was 17 years old and only 3 weeks into basic training.  Polite kid, friendly and very out going.  We were sitting in the day room polishing our boots while the TI was down in the orderly room.  Kid got some polish on the floor and spilled his alcohol trying to clean it up.  Asked the dorm guard to go to the restroom to get some paper towels to which he was granted passage.  Not 5 minutes later a Captain and the TI were beating down the damn door.  Apparently the kid went out in the bay, climbed his locker, opened the window and swan dived off of the second floor balcony below the window.  Landed face first into the concrete right in front of a SrA TI.  

Sad, just sad.

[JonnyB]

My wife suffers from clinical depression. She's doing well with her current medication but, before we found this one, she was enduring hell on earth.

She hasn't come close to killing herself, though. She *did* say to me one time "I don't feel suicidal but I can certainly understand why people do it."

When today is bad, tomorrow looks to be worse, and no improvement is on the horizon, I guess checking out seems like a better deal.

Hindsight being what it is, we believe her problem to go back about 20-25 years, not just the last 3 or 4. Life can be hell when the future is that bleak.

jb