Author Topic: Are you a Newt Gingrich conservative?  (Read 24193 times)

Sergeant Bob

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Re: Are you a Newt Gingrich conservative?
« Reply #25 on: February 23, 2008, 08:06:14 AM »
Actually, he's not all -that- far off base... Iran's leadership claims to welcome martyrdom... That's scary...
 
Remember 9/12/01? People wanted heads on stakes. Think how this country will react if the nutjobs successfully nuke a major city? All those folks will dust off their little lapel pins, and will be -demanding- that we glass half the middle east. And they quite possibly will -get- their wish.
 

It's still a far cry from advocating the systematic extermination of entire countries and religions, and it's been almost 7 years since that happened. Most of the people who thought that are not likely advocates of nuking most of the Middle East/Muslims.
Personally, I do not understand how a bunch of people demanding a bigger govt can call themselves anarchist.
I meet lots of folks like this, claim to be anarchist but really they're just liberals with pierced genitals. - gunsmith

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De Selby

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Re: Are you a Newt Gingrich conservative?
« Reply #26 on: February 23, 2008, 01:59:51 PM »

Remember 9/12/01? People wanted heads on stakes. Think how this country will react if the nutjobs successfully nuke a major city? All those folks will dust off their little lapel pins, and will be -demanding- that we glass half the middle east. And they quite possibly will -get- their wish.
 


I highlighted the key portion.   How we react is up to us-not up to the terrorists.

Hence, it's your choice to do whatever it is you think will happen after the next attack.  Blame the terrorists for the crime of the attack, but you should be square on who is responsible for the reaction.  That's on our shoulders, not theirs, because our reaction is ours to control (or not control)
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

Bogie

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Re: Are you a Newt Gingrich conservative?
« Reply #27 on: February 23, 2008, 02:33:23 PM »
People tend to be a little difficult to "control." Since Hillary has a great history of following the wind as far as policy, what do you think will happen when 90% of the population starts screaming for glass, because Britney just got ashed?

What you see on the streets today is the result of seven years of media war by the Democrats. Bomb a major city, and what you'll see is a population up in arms.
 
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grislyatoms

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Re: Are you a Newt Gingrich conservative?
« Reply #28 on: February 23, 2008, 02:46:19 PM »
A bit ironic...

I remember when Iraq invaded Kuwait and the U.S. military went in there... flags, lapel pins... everyone and their dog was suddenly a flag-waver. That died down rather quickly.

9/11, same deal. Even politicians. rolleyes

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
- Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others Oct. 9, 1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
- Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has invigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
- Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,) and others, December 5, 2001

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandates of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them."
- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force-- if necessary-- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years .. We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do" Rep.
- Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members .. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is is calculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real ..."
- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003


 Funny how things have changed... rolleyes
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De Selby

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Re: Are you a Newt Gingrich conservative?
« Reply #29 on: February 23, 2008, 06:01:54 PM »
People tend to be a little difficult to "control." Since Hillary has a great history of following the wind as far as policy, what do you think will happen when 90% of the population starts screaming for glass, because Britney just got ashed?

What you see on the streets today is the result of seven years of media war by the Democrats. Bomb a major city, and what you'll see is a population up in arms.
 


Sorry, I don't buy the "I couldn't help myself!" line.

The fact that you think the public is fickle doesn't make it any less responsible for its choices. 

Blaming the "media" and all these other amorphous entities for a concrete choice is a cop-out.  You are responsible for your vote, not the cameras, and we'll all be responsible for the votes we cast in response to terrorism. 

If you don't believe in personal responsibility for one's choices, it's hard to see how you could support gun ownership.  If people can't be held accountable and react to their passions without thinking....what on earth business do they have owning guns?
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

Bogie

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Re: Are you a Newt Gingrich conservative?
« Reply #30 on: February 23, 2008, 06:15:43 PM »
Well, personally, if someone nukes a major US city, I think we should find out where it came from, and send a return present.
 
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De Selby

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Re: Are you a Newt Gingrich conservative?
« Reply #31 on: February 23, 2008, 06:26:06 PM »
Well, personally, if someone nukes a major US city, I think we should find out where it came from, and send a return present.
 


So the people who make this choice are responsible for it or not?

And what about the choice to destroy civil rights protections?

Are the people capable of thinking rationally before they support such measures?  And if they're not, how can you possibly trust them with firearms?
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

SomeKid

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Re: Are you a Newt Gingrich conservative?
« Reply #32 on: February 23, 2008, 07:10:42 PM »
Well, personally, if someone nukes a major US city, I think we should find out where it came from, and send a return present.
 


So the people who make this choice are responsible for it or not?

And what about the choice to destroy civil rights protections?

Are the people capable of thinking rationally before they support such measures?  And if they're not, how can you possibly trust them with firearms?

Obfuscate all you want. Terrorists should die, just because they are your fellow Muslims and stuck in the 12th century doesn't make them anything special.

Bogie

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Re: Are you a Newt Gingrich conservative?
« Reply #33 on: February 23, 2008, 07:45:42 PM »
When someone declares war on the most powerful country on earth, and gets ignored, they are lucky.
 
When they proceed to irritate the most powerful country on earth, and get mostly ignored, they are very lucky.
 
When they finally attack the most powerful country on earth with enough force to warrant its full focused attention, they lose.
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Are you a Newt Gingrich conservative?
« Reply #34 on: February 23, 2008, 07:48:07 PM »
so is it just the muslim terrorists that should die?  or do the eric rudolfs and those who aid them get the chop too...

Bogie

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Re: Are you a Newt Gingrich conservative?
« Reply #35 on: February 23, 2008, 07:50:18 PM »
Think of it this way...

If you walk into a biker bar, walk up to the biggest, ugliest Hell's Angel, call him an Outlaw, and kick him in the shin, you really shouldn't be surprised at all about the monumental asskicking that follows...

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De Selby

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Re: Are you a Newt Gingrich conservative?
« Reply #36 on: February 23, 2008, 08:42:44 PM »
When someone declares war on the most powerful country on earth, and gets ignored, they are lucky.
 
When they proceed to irritate the most powerful country on earth, and get mostly ignored, they are very lucky.
 
When they finally attack the most powerful country on earth with enough force to warrant its full focused attention, they lose.

Yeah, but I'm asking you about your claims that all our civil liberties will be gone in this process.

Who is responsible for the choices we make? The terrorists, or us? Simple question, and I have not yet seen you answer except to indicate that we're actually not responsible for the choices we make as a nation.
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

De Selby

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Re: Are you a Newt Gingrich conservative?
« Reply #37 on: February 23, 2008, 08:45:16 PM »
Obfuscate all you want. Terrorists should die, just because they are your fellow Muslims and stuck in the 12th century doesn't make them anything special.

Supporting genocide, like you did on this thread, puts you in the same barbarous centuries as the terrorists.

I feel that part of having 21st century enlightened views means realizing that killing a billion people for any reason is so wrong as to warrant comparisons to the Nazi gas-chambers.  Genocide is as backwards and barbaric as anything the terrorists propose (and some of them propose genocide, like you did on this thread). 

I think if you are concerned about being stuck in the past you should review your own beliefs on this subject.
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

Bogie

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Re: Are you a Newt Gingrich conservative?
« Reply #38 on: February 23, 2008, 09:04:24 PM »
When is mass murder okay - when the people being murdered are Americans? Because if I have to make an "us vs. them" choice, well... Guess who loses?

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Finch

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Re: Are you a Newt Gingrich conservative?
« Reply #39 on: February 23, 2008, 10:54:26 PM »
When they finally attack the most powerful country on earth with enough force to warrant its full focused attention, they lose.

To bad we didn't focus our full attention on those who actually did it...
Truth is treason in the empire of lies - Ron Paul

Bogie

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Re: Are you a Newt Gingrich conservative?
« Reply #40 on: February 24, 2008, 10:20:19 AM »
What we did was send a message.

Dear Middle East Despots:

See what we just did to the country with the largest and best equipped military in your region? You really oughta think twice before twisting this tiger's tail.

Sincerely,

The Guys with the Big Airplanes

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Sergeant Bob

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Re: Are you a Newt Gingrich conservative?
« Reply #41 on: February 24, 2008, 10:28:54 AM »
When is mass murder okay - when the people being murdered are Americans? Because if I have to make an "us vs. them" choice, well... Guess who loses?


So...are you saying it's OK to exterminate 1 billion people then, which is what it sounds like? The argument is about committing genocide of all Muslims.

Or, are you just determined to win the argument because it's vs shootinstudent?
Personally, I do not understand how a bunch of people demanding a bigger govt can call themselves anarchist.
I meet lots of folks like this, claim to be anarchist but really they're just liberals with pierced genitals. - gunsmith

I already have canned butter, buying more. Canned blueberries, some pancake making dry goods and the end of the world is gonna be delicious.  -French G

Bogie

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Re: Are you a Newt Gingrich conservative?
« Reply #42 on: February 24, 2008, 10:31:54 AM »
Could be transference... After all, the nutjob types would like to exterminate all infidels...
 
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Balog

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Re: Are you a Newt Gingrich conservative?
« Reply #43 on: February 24, 2008, 12:18:46 PM »
Could be transference... After all, the nutjob types would like to exterminate all infidels...
 


Well, yeah. But we're better than that, right? Saying "Well the terrorists want to do it too!" doesn't make it right.
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Bogie

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Re: Are you a Newt Gingrich conservative?
« Reply #44 on: February 24, 2008, 12:29:52 PM »
"right" or "necessary?"

If there's a billion folks out there, and all of them want me dead, well, that's a bad thing.
 
Religious wars are nasty.

Especially when you have a buncha folks who don't mind dying. Who, in some cases, welcome it.
 
Last time the US was exposed to that was in WWII vs. the Japanese.
 
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grislyatoms

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Re: Are you a Newt Gingrich conservative?
« Reply #45 on: February 24, 2008, 12:36:14 PM »
Could be transference... After all, the nutjob types would like to exterminate all infidels...
 


Well, yeah. But we're better than that, right? Saying "Well the terrorists want to do it too!" doesn't make it right.

"We" don't fly aircraft into buildings full of civilians. That's when the line was drawn in the sand, IMO.

For the record, I have nothing against Muslims and do not want to see innocent people killed. I work (and have worked) with a handful of Muslims, and they are peaceable, hard working folks.

The militant extremists, though, deserve everything coming at them. They do not understand terms like "negotiate". All they understand is violence and mayhem. They have twisted the Islamic faith to suit their own nefarious ends and purposes.

In their case, the only response possible, unfortunately, is violent.
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grislyatoms

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Re: Are you a Newt Gingrich conservative?
« Reply #46 on: February 24, 2008, 12:38:50 PM »
I have wondered this in the past.

If the U.S. pulled out of the Middle East, including Israel, would the violence and hatred against the U.S. stop? I honestly don't believe it would. It's beyond that point now.
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Balog

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Re: Are you a Newt Gingrich conservative?
« Reply #47 on: February 24, 2008, 01:15:40 PM »
"right" or "necessary?"

If there's a billion folks out there, and all of them want me dead, well, that's a bad thing.
 
Religious wars are nasty.

Especially when you have a buncha folks who don't mind dying. Who, in some cases, welcome it.
 
Last time the US was exposed to that was in WWII vs. the Japanese.
 


Well, if a billion people want you dead, and are trying to make it happen, then yeah killing them is a good idea. But saying "A lot of people who look/talk/pray like this want to kill me, so I'll go and genocide everyone that looks/talks/prays like that" is *expletive deleted*it logic. Kill the fighters; ok. Kill the people supporting the fighters; great. Kill the wives and children of the fighters; evil. This isn't WWII Japan, where I agree nuking em was the best way to go. I've worked with hajjis, and if we can unf### their .gov long enough to breed a couple pro west generations they can be made to see reason.
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Finch

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Re: Are you a Newt Gingrich conservative?
« Reply #48 on: February 24, 2008, 01:32:24 PM »
Dear Middle East Despots:

See what we just did to the country with the largest and best equipped military in your region? You really oughta think twice before twisting this tiger's tail.

Sincerely,

The Guys with the Big Airplanes

P.S.

And all it cost us was thousands of lives, our economy, and some of our freedoms. And hey, we still can't finish the mission we "accomplished."
Truth is treason in the empire of lies - Ron Paul

Bogie

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Re: Are you a Newt Gingrich conservative?
« Reply #49 on: February 24, 2008, 02:11:50 PM »
Well, nothing is instant. Nothing.
 
Except for television.

Europe recovering from WWI took damn near 75 years, and another war.
 
Main reason our economy's acting like it's in the dumper is that we keep hearing that it's in the dumper. Only major screwed up sector is new house construction, which was on a bubble. That's cyclic, but generally the folks who are involved in construction seem to think that their "up cycles" are gonna last forever.
 
Clue: Everyone who was gonna buy a house in the 'burbs bought one. Don't need any more for a while.
 
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