Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: MillCreek on June 11, 2020, 09:12:19 AM
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https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/03/health/suicide-guns-firearms.html?algo=identity&fellback=false&imp_id=581155732&action=click&module=Science%20%20Technology&pgtype=Homepage
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMsa1916744
An interesting study out of California over the course of 12 years and 676,000 gun purchasers. The risk of suicide is highest amongst male first-time gun owners for the first month after purchase, suggesting that many people buy a handgun specifically to commit suicide, and the 10 day waiting period may not change their minds. The risk of suicide continues to be elevated for many years after purchase. It was interesting to see that handgun owners do not have higher risks of suicide by other means.
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https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/03/health/suicide-guns-firearms.html?algo=identity&fellback=false&imp_id=581155732&action=click&module=Science%20%20Technology&pgtype=Homepage
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMsa1916744
An interesting study out of California over the course of 12 years and 676,000 gun purchasers. (1)The risk of suicide is highest amongst male first-time gun owners for the first month after purchase, suggesting that many people buy a handgun specifically to commit suicide, and the 10 day waiting period may not change their minds. The risk of suicide continues to be elevated for many years after purchase. (2) It was interesting to see that handgun owners do not have higher risks of suicide by other means.
(1) Because people contemplating suicide may well plan ahead, or may spend years debating in their minds over it, while having gotten the gun with the intention to use it. That's the reason for the elevated risk over the next years.
(2) They don't have higher risks of suicide by other means because either: they had no intention of committing suicide or they purchased the gun for the purpose of suicide, so therefore don't use other means.
This study isn't all the surprising.
I'd be curious to see (though I likely know the answer) a study on the effect of pursuing training/practice after acquiring the gun. I'm betting the population self-segregates strongly.
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Is the total number of attempts same or lower than a similar non gun population? Guessing the success rate of gun suicide plays a part.
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There is a 100% correlation between people who intend to commit suicide and people who attempt to commit suicide.
In other news. the sun rises in the east.
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Back when I was doing malpractice defense for a living, one of my specialty areas was behavioral health. One of the more common behavioral health malpractice claims is failing to prevent suicide. As all of my experts would say, if someone was bound and determined to commit suicide, they would eventually find the means and the opportunity to do so. You cannot keep people hospitalized, sedated and in five point restraints forever and anything less than that increases the risk of suicide. What you are trying to do is buy time until the precipitating life event resolved and/or the meds took effect such that the suicidal ideation passed. The problem with having an effective means close at hand is the patient may act impulsively, and if the means is really effective, such as a firearm, that is likely all she wrote.
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It's a trope of the left that buying a gun causes suicide. Any time a conclusion can be spun to fit the preferred narrative they'll find a way.
Those that want to kill themselves will find a way. Denying access to firearms might slow them down a little, but is unlikely to stop them. When Australia banned most private gun ownership suicide rates went up overall. Now, banning guns didn't cause that rate to up (probably), and despite firearm suicide dropping to almost zero other methods more than made up.
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I recall reading of a study that found that gun bans initially reduce suicides. On a linear chart, the suicides fall off, forming a trough, but then curve back up, but don't stop at the initial level, they curve up and form a hill, then fall back to the initial level.
It was theorized that those people were stymied in trying to kill themselves, but eventually grew so determined they simply found another way. Removing the firearm didn't treat the motivating cause.
I cannot recall, however , where I found this study.
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I understand a lot of suicides in Japan are from pesticides.
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I understand a lot of suicides in Japan are from pesticides.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/XejFQNGS90SvaITLRZ/giphy.gif)
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I understand a lot of suicides in Japan are from pesticides.
Other common ways in Japan are to mix household cleaners and drain uncloggers and make hydrogen sulfide gas in a small enclosed space like a car. Or they simply take a small charcoal barbecue and light it up in an enclosed space. Although the HS method sounds better, because CO symptoms and headaches, unless it overwhelms you really fast seem unpleasant.
Then they've got this entire suicide forest, which is about the creepiest real-world place I can think of.
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/life/2011/06/26/general/inside-japans-suicide-forest/#.XuOY7kVKiUk
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(https://media.giphy.com/media/XejFQNGS90SvaITLRZ/giphy.gif)
Is that when someone told Bernie that 0+0 doesn't equal 4 ?
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Other common ways in Japan are to mix household cleaners and drain uncloggers and make hydrogen sulfide gas in a small enclosed space like a car. Or they simply take a small charcoal barbecue and light it up in an enclosed space. Although the HS method sounds better, because CO symptoms and headaches, unless it overwhelms you really fast seem unpleasant.
Then they've got this entire suicide forest, which is about the creepiest real-world place I can think of.
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/life/2011/06/26/general/inside-japans-suicide-forest/#.XuOY7kVKiUk
That article says Japan's suicide rate is twice that of the U.S. I guess they all own guns there.
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From what I remember of Dave Kopel's writings, one of the reasons for Japan's high suicide rate is that when a family head decides he's had enough he sometimes takes his family with him --for some inscrutable Japanese reason.
The trouble is that the officials take those extra deaths as suicides as well, instead of murder, which more scrutable nations would do. This skews the suicide rate upward and the murder rate downward.
And apart from the suicide forest, here in the US we have the Brooklyn Bridge, which has been frequently used, California has its Colorado Street Bridge, and, speaking of Colorado, there's the Royal Gorge bridge, where the drop of 922 feet gives you plenty of time to change your mind.
There's a railroad down there next to the river, by the way.
(https://303magazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Bridge-1.jpg)
Terry, 230RN
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That article says Japan's suicide rate is twice that of the U.S. I guess they all own guns there.
My brother who lived there 15 years says shotguns are not uncommon in rural areas. The farmers use them on their monkey problem.
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Something tells me rural dwellers don't have as much motivation toward suicide as city dwellers. Don't know what, just "something."
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It's a trope of the left that buying a gun causes suicide. Any time a conclusion can be spun to fit the preferred narrative they'll find a way.
Those that want to kill themselves will find a way. Denying access to firearms might slow them down a little, but is unlikely to stop them. When Australia banned most private gun ownership suicide rates went up overall. Now, banning guns didn't cause that rate to up (probably), and despite firearm suicide dropping to almost zero other methods more than made up.
Yeah. When I was debating this type of stuff on FB a year or three ago I looked up the statistics for Australia; which is rather difficult to navigate for some reason. You can watch the item used for suicide lower with firearms and firectly rise with other items over the years.