Author Topic: Chile Volcano Eruption Prompts Total Evacuation  (Read 2786 times)

Desertdog

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Chile Volcano Eruption Prompts Total Evacuation
« on: May 06, 2008, 08:13:57 AM »
Would anybody hazard to guess how much CO2 and other "Greenhouse Gasses" are spewed out of the volcano on an hourly basis?  What about all that ash in the atmosphere?  Will the ash cause "Global Cooling" for a few years?  Either way, it is not man made.


Chile Volcano Eruption Prompts Total Evacuation
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,354282,00.html
 
 AP


 SANTIAGO, Chile   The Chaiten volcano spewed lava and blasted ash more than 12 miles into the sky on Tuesday, prompting a total evacuation of the provincial capital and other settlements.

President Michelle Bachelet interrupted a speech in the capital to announce that "the volcano is exploding so a total evacuation of the town of Chaiten has been ordered."

Rains following the eruption have carpeted surrounding areas in ash and mud. Hard hit is Chaiten, a small provincial capital of wooden houses and cobblestone streets just 6 miles from the volcano in southern Chile.

More than 4,000 people had fled earlier and the few remaining residents were being transferred to two navy ships.

Palena province Gov. Fernando Aguilar said some people were resisting, but "everybody must leave."

The volcano's five-day eruption has sent a thick column of ash into the stratosphere, streaming across Patagonia to the Atlantic.

Carmen Fernandez, head of Chile's Emergency Bureau, said the final evacuation order covers 300 people, including police, soldiers, emergency personnel, a few reporters and some residents.

Fernandez said the amount of lava emerging from the volcano "is very small and very thick, so it is moving very slowly."

Authorities were also evacuating the ash-coated town of Futaleufu, about 75 miles east of Chaiten near the Argentine border. Many people there wore surgical masks or cloth across their mouth to guard against the gritty ash.

Officials in Argentina also reported ash fall over wide areas in the southern part of the country.

MrRezister

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Re: Chile Volcano Eruption Prompts Total Evacuation
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2008, 08:17:22 AM »
Clearly we need a global tax on volcanoes.  That should help offset the horrible damage done by these environmental terrorists.
He never brought you an unbalanced budget, which is a perennial joke. He never voted himself a wage increase and, to this day, gives back part of his salary every year. He has always voted to preserve the Constitution, cut government spending, lower healthcare costs, end the war on drugs, secure our borders with immigration reform and protect our civil liberties.

Manedwolf

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Re: Chile Volcano Eruption Prompts Total Evacuation
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2008, 08:23:09 AM »
Ban volcanoes. Especially those high-capacity assault volcanoes that can spew millions of tons of ash. Even small, concealable volcanoes could be used in a crime. It's for the children.

roo_ster

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Re: Chile Volcano Eruption Prompts Total Evacuation
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2008, 09:06:19 AM »
You guys have it all wrong.  Volcanoes are caused by global warming climate change.

They are the natural, sympathetic reaction to tailpipe exhaust.
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roo_ster

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Tallpine

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Re: Chile Volcano Eruption Prompts Total Evacuation
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2008, 10:09:33 AM »
If a volcano erupted six miles from my house, I think I might have a total evacuation too  shocked

 grin
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Sergeant Bob

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Re: Chile Volcano Eruption Prompts Total Evacuation
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2008, 10:20:28 AM »
If a volcano erupted six miles from my house, I think I might have a total evacuation too  shocked

 grin

....and everyone else would be slipping in it! angel
Personally, I do not understand how a bunch of people demanding a bigger govt can call themselves anarchist.
I meet lots of folks like this, claim to be anarchist but really they're just liberals with pierced genitals. - gunsmith

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Iain

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Re: Chile Volcano Eruption Prompts Total Evacuation
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2008, 11:23:19 AM »
Not sure why I'm bothering. Anyway...

Quote
Comparison of CO2 emissions from volcanoes vs. human activities.
Scientists have calculated that volcanoes emit between about 130-230 million tonnes (145-255 million tons) of CO2 into the atmosphere every year (Gerlach, 1999, 1991). This estimate includes both subaerial and submarine volcanoes, about in equal amounts. Emissions of CO2 by human activities, including fossil fuel burning, cement production, and gas flaring, amount to about 27 billion tonnes per year (30 billion tons) [ ( Marland, et al., 2006) - The reference gives the amount of released carbon (C), rather than CO2, through 2003.]. Human activities release more than 130 times the amount of CO2 emitted by volcanoes--the equivalent of more than 8,000 additional volcanoes like Kilauea (Kilauea emits about 3.3 million tonnes/year)! (Gerlach et. al., 2002)
- http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/Hazards/What/VolGas/volgas.html

You may return to... err, whatever this thread was meant to be about. Oh yeah, it was meant to be about volcanoes and global warming and "hazarding a guess". Well, I hazarded a fact, which will probably turn this thread into another "It's all a conspiracy" hazard, I mean theory (underlined because it isn't proven, it's just a theory - the conspiracy that is)
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mfree

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Re: Chile Volcano Eruption Prompts Total Evacuation
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2008, 11:38:51 AM »
Trouble is, volcanoes emit much more than CO2. Lots of sulfur dioxide and particulates, fer'instance.

Sergeant Bob

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Re: Chile Volcano Eruption Prompts Total Evacuation
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2008, 02:03:39 PM »
Trouble is, volcanoes emit much more than CO2. Lots of sulfur dioxide and particulates, fer'instance.

Plus hydrogen sulfide, carbon monoxide, sulphur dioxide, hydrogen.
Personally, I do not understand how a bunch of people demanding a bigger govt can call themselves anarchist.
I meet lots of folks like this, claim to be anarchist but really they're just liberals with pierced genitals. - gunsmith

I already have canned butter, buying more. Canned blueberries, some pancake making dry goods and the end of the world is gonna be delicious.  -French G

Regolith

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Re: Chile Volcano Eruption Prompts Total Evacuation
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2008, 02:17:20 PM »
Sulfur dioxide actually causes global cooling, though, as sunlight tends to reflect off of it and scatter back into space rather than being trapped. Big eruptions usually precipitate global drops in temperatures of a degree or two. 
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Chile Volcano Eruption Prompts Total Evacuation
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2008, 02:41:48 PM »
Sulfur dioxide actually causes global cooling, though, as sunlight tends to reflect off of it and scatter back into space rather than being trapped. Big eruptions usually precipitate global drops in temperatures of a degree or two. 

So this eruption is just nature's way of counteracting tailpipe emissions. No big deal.

That article about how man-made activities emit so much more than volcanoes I believe is looking at a typical year, in which there are no huge eruptions. Some thing like Mount St. Helens or this new (very old) one in Chile  don't fit neatly into the annual average. They put the needle right off the end of the scale. This volcano is on the coast of Chile, which is the west. Granted, Chile is not a wide country, but the ash is blowing from the Pacific coast across the Andes, across Argentina, and all the way to the Atlantic. The plume is up to 12 MILES high.

Takes a lotta tailpipes to equal that.
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100% Politically Incorrect by Design

Regolith

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Re: Chile Volcano Eruption Prompts Total Evacuation
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2008, 03:50:28 PM »
Sulfur dioxide actually causes global cooling, though, as sunlight tends to reflect off of it and scatter back into space rather than being trapped. Big eruptions usually precipitate global drops in temperatures of a degree or two. 

So this eruption is just nature's way of counteracting tailpipe emissions. No big deal.

 cheesy

Yeah, some scientists were actually thinking about pumping sulfur dioxide into the atmosphere in order to counteract global warming.
The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. - Thomas Jefferson

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves. - William Pitt the Younger

Perfectly symmetrical violence never solved anything. - Professor Hubert J. Farnsworth

280plus

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Re: Chile Volcano Eruption Prompts Total Evacuation
« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2008, 04:58:40 PM »
All they need to do is toss it a couple virgins, what's wrong with those people?  rolleyes 

Avoid cliches like the plague!

Hawkmoon

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Re: Chile Volcano Eruption Prompts Total Evacuation
« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2008, 07:21:22 PM »
Latest word from Chile is that the ash plume is now 20 miles high, but the sulpher dioxide emissions are VERY low. However, the two old craters have merged into one and a lava dome is forming inside the crater, so it may not be over yet.

At least this one was civilized enough to erupt gradually, rather than just popping its top in a huge explosion after 9,000+ years of dormancy.
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Chile Volcano Eruption Prompts Total Evacuation
« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2008, 07:49:29 PM »
http://www.muellerworld.com/eb_rice/

Abstract
It is necessary to seperate fact from fiction and help the general public understand what is happening to the environment, who is causing it, and what they can do to help. Alarmists who misuse science to promote fear, trying to stop all development, or spend money foolishly to clean up something that isn't that big a problem must be countered. If the world is to come to an end it will be mother nature, not humankind, that causes it.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Introduction
I took Arctic Engineering 603 and 604 from E.B. Rice upon my move to Alaska in 1962. The 603 class is one of the requirements for becoming a registered engineer or archetect in Alaska. During the next 10 years I assisted him by teaching one or two sessions of each course, usually on cold regions utilities and hydrology. Then, in 1973, E.B. asked me to teach both 603 and 604 in Anchorage. He had been teaching them in Prudhoe Bay, Fairbanks, Anchorage and Juneau all at the same time and was tired of all the travel. I felt very honored.
During the time I taught the class it consisted of anywhere from 50 to 120 students. The students ranged from experienced engineers that would have liked me to derive the formulas to undergraduates and the general public, some of whom had trouble plugging numbers into a formula to come up with the answer. It is difficult to teach a class that large and with that variation of student experience and interest. In 1978, I was transferred to Arizona by the U.S. Public Health Service for a two year stint and Will Nelson took over teaching the arctic engineering classes in Anchorage.

Over the years, I've heard some criticsm about how E.B. (and later I) taught the course. We used a lot of examples ("war stories") and not much theory. The objective of 603 was to create interest and provide a very basic description of cold regions engineering and construction. It was intended to alert a "down south engineer" when he was in "over his head" and should get help or should take additional courses. No matter the experience level of the student, they'll remember the how-to and how-not-to examples long after they have forgotten the formulas. You can't make a cold regions engineer out of a down-south engineer in one clase, no matter how it is taught. Arctic Engineering 603 and 604, as developed by E.B., did a good job of fulfilling this basic need.


The World is Coming to an End
I read a very interesting book recenlty: Trashing the Planet, by the late Dixie Lee Ray, past Governor of Washington State. I've based this paper on this and other books and articles I've read and information I've researched.

Hole in the Ozone Layer and Global Warming
The phases "hole in the ozone layer" and "global warming" are both great attention getters. I haven't seen any overwhelming scientific evidence for or against the idea that global warming is occurring. But I don't want to argue the point. My concern is that much of what you read is hype from alarmists and extremists - the same types that used to walk around in robes and sandals with long hair and signs saying "the world is coming to an end". What bothers me, and should bother you, is the claim that humankind is the cause of global warming.
As you all know, the earth is essentially a greenhouse because of our atmosphere. If not, the earth's surface ad weather would be like the moon's: -170C at night and +100C during the day. The major atmosphere gases that protect us from these extreme are as follows:

CARBON DIOXIDE: Generated by all living organisms, decaying vegetation, volcanoes, forest fires, fossil-fuel power plants, automobiles, and industrial processes.
HYDROCARBONS: Produced by all plants (especially forests), industrial processes, automobiles, and animals.
METHANE: Generated by decaying vegetation, swamps, wetlands, rice paddies, oil production, and animals.
An example, cows in the United States alon produce 45,000,000 tons of hydrocarbons and methane each year. They belch this up when they regurgitate material from their first stomach to chew it for the second stomach. I understand someone in England has a research project to find ways of preventing or reducing this.

The largest single source of greenhouse gases may well be termites. They are responsible for 45 billion tons of carbon dioxide and methane each year. This is 10 times more than what is produced by humans buring fossil fuel.

By the way, another thing we need to keep in perspective is numbers. We throw around billions and trillions but don't really have a feeling for their magnitude. For example, 1,000,000 seconds is about 12 days, 1 billion seconds is over 32 years; and 1 trillion seconds is from now back to 30,000 B.C.

A recent major attention-getter was the supposed harm caused by deforestation and cutting old-growth timber. The subject is very emotional and more hysterical than scientific. The endangered spotted owl was a pawn in this fight to preserve old-growth timber. We know mature trees and old-growth forests remove 4.5 to 6.5 tons less carbon dioxide per acre per year from the atosphere than younger growing trees. If we are really interested, and we should be, in reducing atmosphereic carbon dioxide, we should be vigorously pursuning reforestation and planting trees and shrubs especially in urban areas where local impacts to the atmosphere are the greatest.

The timber companies in the United States have had a very active program of reforestation. The average annual forest growth is more than three times what it was in 1920 and increased 18% from 1952 to 1977. In New Zealand, and other more developed areas of the world, trees are actually farmed like hay.

Historically, there is no good or widely accepted explanation for why the earth's temperature and climate were as they were at any particular time. No one knows what caused the ice ages and the warm periods in between. No one knows what caused the "little ice age" of the late 17th and early 18th centuries, which was preceded by nearly a century of warming. However, it is pretty clear that humans and industrialization did not cause those warming periods.

Human activity, even now, is minimal compared to natural phenomenon such as volcanoes: Mount St. Helens erupted May 18, 1980. Gases and particulate matter were forced 25,000 meters up, into, and above the atmosphere. 3.6 billion tons of earth was displaced. No one measured the gases released during the eruption (for obvious reasons), but in the remaining seven months of 1980 the volcano released 830,000 tons of carbon dioxide; 200,000 tons sulfur dioxide; and thousands of tons of aerosols, methane, and carbon monoxide.

Mount St. Helens was a small eruption compared to Krakatoa in Indonesia (1883), Mt. Katmai in Alaska (1912), Helka in Iceland (1947), St. Augustine in Alaska (1976) and El Chiucon in Mexico (1982).

Estimates of the air-polluting materials that were released from Krakatoa, Katmi, and Helka, alone, are many times more than the amount released by humans since his beginning on earth. Krakatoa, for example, produced several colder than normal winters and a global temperature drop of 0.3C.


What about the universe's effect on Earth?
The sun is a major factor in the climate and weather on Earth. Activity on the sun goes through periods of relative quiet and then erupts into flares, sunspots, and great upheavals that send large quanities of solar material into space. Many scientists feel most global warming is due to changes in the sun rather than greenhouse gases. The solar activity correlates well with recorded temperature changes for the past 100 years. Recently, Irish and Danish astronomers found a close correlation between temperatures at various sites on earth and the length of sunspot cycles.
Until the proponents of the man-produced-greenhours-gasses-are-causing-global-warming Theory can scientifically show it true, we should not make drastic changes in our modernized lifestyle. We should not run off half-cocked and propose going back to the horse-and-buggy days of the 19th century, or earlier, with no logging, automobiles, industry, electricity, or other conveniences.

What caused the 80 ppm increase in carbon dioxide during a 100-year period 300 years ago, and the high peak, many times anything measured since, of 130,000 years ago?

This is not to say we should be working to reduce human's adverse effect on the atmosphere. I just ask that we keep things in perspective and not jump to conclusions and create hysteria as the environmental activists and press do.

Also, to narrow down the causes, what we do in the United States will have an insignificant effect of the world's production of greenhouse gases. For example, China alone burns a billion tons of coal per year. They have no other alternative. No matter what the Western world does, we will not materially affect the release of carbon dioxide arising from the human use fo fossil fuels.

Another attention-getter is the disappearing ozone layer. It appears the average thickness of the ozone layer increased in the 1960's and decreased about the same magnituse in the early 1980's. The ozone hole over Antarctica grew in size during the early 1980's, then reduced in size in 1986 and increased again 1987. In 1988 it at first did not appear at all in its normal location, but was finally formed elsewhere at only about 15% of the 1987 size.

The changes in the amont of ozone appear to be related to the production of chlorides and nitrous oxides. There was a widespread, but unproven, fear that there chlorine ions that were destroying the ozone came from chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs). So hysteria has us all give up our hand spray cans of deorodant and paint.

Chloride ions are injected into the stratosphere continuously by natural phenomena:

The eruption of St. Augustine in Alaska in 1976 injected 290 million tons of hydrochloric acid directly into the stratosphere. That is 570 times the total world production of chlorine and CFCs for 1975.
Mt. Erebus in Antarctica has been erupting almost constantly for the last 100 years, ejecting 900 tons of chlorine per day.
270,000,000 tons of chlorine are emitted each year naturally from the evaporation of sea water.
The highest annual human production of chlorine was about 680,000 tons per year. Does man really have a significant impact?
I've mentioned on only two examples, global warming and the ozone controversy, to show how we must seperate fact from the sensationalism used by the save-the-world-extremists and the press. Three other examples are as follows:


wheres wacki to explain away that pesky
What caused the 80 ppm increase in carbon dioxide during a 100-year period 300 years ago, and the high peak, many times anything measured since, of 130,000 years ago?


"
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Chile Volcano Eruption Prompts Total Evacuation
« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2008, 08:16:34 PM »
Not sure why I'm bothering. Anyway...

Quote
Comparison of CO2 emissions from volcanoes vs. human activities.
Scientists have calculated that volcanoes emit between about 130-230 million tonnes (145-255 million tons) of CO2 into the atmosphere every year (Gerlach, 1999, 1991). This estimate includes both subaerial and submarine volcanoes, about in equal amounts. Emissions of CO2 by human activities, including fossil fuel burning, cement production, and gas flaring, amount to about 27 billion tonnes per year (30 billion tons) [ ( Marland, et al., 2006) - The reference gives the amount of released carbon (C), rather than CO2, through 2003.]. Human activities release more than 130 times the amount of CO2 emitted by volcanoes--the equivalent of more than 8,000 additional volcanoes like Kilauea (Kilauea emits about 3.3 million tonnes/year)! (Gerlach et. al., 2002)
- http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/Hazards/What/VolGas/volgas.html

You may return to... err, whatever this thread was meant to be about. Oh yeah, it was meant to be about volcanoes and global warming and "hazarding a guess". Well, I hazarded a fact, which will probably turn this thread into another "It's all a conspiracy" hazard, I mean theory (underlined because it isn't proven, it's just a theory - the conspiracy that is)
Does Gerlach's study account for the periodic increases of volcanic emissions that accompany major eruptions?  Or does he only calculate the average over time of the emissions from non-erupting volcanoes?  Gerlach is often cited on the web, but I didn't find the text of his paper. 

I don't doubt that on average man releases more CO2 than volcanoes.  Mostly volcanoes sit idle and emit an occasional belch.  But we're not discussing the routine squirts from near dormant volcanoes.  We're talking about the major eruption in Chile this week.

You'd be hard pressed to convince me that among single events, a volcano eruption can be matched by anything man can do.  Some people like to pretend that mankind is the equal of mother nature.  Every so often she reminds us that this simply isn't so.