Employment Ethics

[Perd Hapley]

DD,

I do not think of employers as being on the "other side."  And I don't know what "side" of what controversy you think I'm on.  You must have misunderstood if you think I am feeling guilty about leaving my employer.  I am not the one who has made this job unbearable or almost undoable.  Sorry to invent a word there.  

Thanks for trying to sympathize though.

[Felonious Monk/Fignozzle]

Please refer to my sigline.  You owe an employer   N O T H I N G.

[Robert Sears]

+1 with what Hawkmoon said. Always leave on friendly terms. I was fired from a job in Oct. 2004 and out of work until Mar 1, this years. I was able to return to the last job except as a contractor, worked for 2 months and then suffered a massive heart attack. After only 2 months  of work they gave me 1 week of sick pay. It pays to leave on friend ly terms.

Bob

[Guest]

[brimic]

Do not let an employer even get a whiff of the idea that you are looking for a new job until you have signed an employment agreement for another job. I've seen people give their 2 week notices who were immediately told to clean out their desks and lockers and were subsequently escorted to their vehicles by security. Like others have said, you owe the company nothing more than a 2 week notice, and not even that if your employment conditions are hostile or overly stressful. The company will not give you notice if and when they decide to dump you. I got fired from a job this last spring a day before I was scheduled to return from vacation- 5 days after my daughter was born, this was a place where I had worked for over 7 years and had great reviews all along. The Board needed to cut spending, so they fired 1/3 of the employees in one fell swoop, starting with the highest paid in each job category. They did give me 2 weeks pay as severance, less the normal overtime and shift differential, for all of my years of hard work and working difficult hours. Bitter? You bet. I did learn an important lesson though- an employee is only chattel to an employer when the accountants start looking at the books trying to find people to cut, hard work and dedication mean nothing, loyalty is an antiquated notion.

[280plus]

Hah, you guys reminded me of my stint as ann HVAC instructor at Technical Carreers Institute / Baran's Institute. First off, I kept a box of Midol in my podium and whenever one of those guys would start to whining away over something I used to pull the box out and offer them some.
 
TCI had been sold to and run into the ground by some corporation in Gulfport, Miss. They took over just prior to my being employed there. The original owner "Baran's" still owned the bldgs. Well, 14 months later,when the lease was up, the Miss. corp, having been blowing smoke and flower petals up our asses for months,  ABANDONED the friggin' operation, lock stock and barrel. One Friday morning we get a message to send all our students home and meet in the cafeteria at 11:00. All 300 of us got pink slips, security guards manned the doors and we had so many minutes to clean up our stuff and get out. Those of us who were on "The List" were "allowed" to reapply for our jobs but starting all over as new employees. No benefits, no sick days, no medical insurance, etc. I was on "The List" so I foolishly applied for my job back, giving these people the benefit of the doubt. There was an article in the business section of the Hartford Courant talking all about it featuring the new boss Linda Perkins making the statement that they had made the transition and kept over 50% of the original employees. Within 6 weeks over 80% were gone. I was let go, even though I had the second highest student rating of my dept, when 6 weeks into the thing, I complained about not being paid for the day I took off to go to my stepmother's funeral. No effin' lie. I also made the mistake of asking about the medical benefits they had promised us within 30 days. She told me she had more important things to worry about than my mother's funeral. I know, I shoulda punched her right then but I guess I'm smarter than that. Anyhoo, I wasn't a "team player" immediately after that, I had a "negative attitude". Gee, ya think? Can't imagine why...

The entire student body walked out in a rage the day after they let me go. They had to call the cops to regain order. They friggin' called me on the phone at home and asked me what I wanted them to do. I told them to just go back to class, it wasn't worth it.

I would definitely have something lined up before I ever indicated to my current employer that I was even THINKING of leaving. Offer them two weeks but be prepared to be unemployed shortly after making the offer. Each situation is different of course. They could offer you more money to stay. That's been known to happen. If they DO keep you the 2 weeks, be a model employee and leave on gracious terms.

[wingnutx]

Well, if they're in Gulf Port then their building is probably gone now.

[280plus]

Hopefully they all drowned with the rats...But then again, why ruin the last few moments on earth for the rats?

[Tallpine]

It all depends on your employer... some years back I was working at a horrible job, and I was getting some serious interest in another position (at vastly higher pay) but I wasn't sure how it was going to turn out yet.  So I went in and asked for a couple weeks off without pay (in order to travel to see about the new job but I didn't tell them that) and was told flat no until after the current work schedule (3 or 4 weeks).

Next day (my day off) the new company called and asked me to fly down there at their expense the following week.  I walked in at 8am the next morning and quit as of that instant (2 seconds notice).

Never went back in there again, even as a customer.  The store went bankrupt a couple years later.  It is still sitting there locked up with all the merchandise.

[Perd Hapley]

Declaration Day,

Let me apologize for being snippy.  I was wrong to answer you like I did.  I guess we had a misunderstanding about what I was saying, or maybe you were not even responding to me.  I can get cranky about very little things, sometimes, especially where this job is concerned.  Again, I apologize.

[Declaration Day]

Thank you for your apology, sir.

It is quite possible that I misunderstood you.  I interpreted your initial post as "I feel bad for leaving this job because my reason seems petty."  I thought that being an employer, and still siding with those who say you owe your employer nothing, might help to alleviate your concern. In no way was it intended as a lecture.

It takes a true gentleman to recognize his wrongdoings and retract them, no matter how small.

Best of luck in your search for a new job.

Bryan

[Big_R]

I've been a boss for a long time.  I make it very clear to my team that I will not stand in their way of seeking employment elsewhere and will, in most cases, give them a glowing reference.  That said, I don't see much turnover in my group.

The question of informing your boss that you're looking is a matter of the relationship shared between you.  It should only be done if you are certain that informing him would be a benefit to both of you (him for being able to start a search for your replacement as early as possible, and you for gaining a good reference).

If you're not absolutely certain of that relationship, tell him nothing and simply provide written notice once you have something else lined up.

Ryan

[ilbob]

IMO.

You gain very little by telling your current employer anything about your job search, while there is substantial downside risk to doing so. Some managers are really big on loyalty (often one way) and will not appreciate the disloyal SOB who wants to leave.

I had a former boss refer to me that way after I transfered to another department because I was burning out on 80 and 90 hour weeks. He was not real thrilled that all but one of his engineers applied for 3 jobs in another department. The one who did not apply had only been in the department a few months and really did not have the skills for the jobs in the other department anyway. Tells you something.

I am a bit of a cynic anyway, but I think your primary duty is to yourself and your family. Your job is high on the list of importance, but if it is killing you, it is best to move on, but it is usually best to do so at a time of your chosing.

Be careful of the exit interview if there is one. Avoid telling them anything even remotely like the real reason you are leaving. They will never understand why you would want to leave their little slice of hell, so why try to explain it.

Before you announce you are leaving, try to get a copy of your personnel file, especially if there are written evaluations there.  They may be useful down the road.  

Ask what their policy is on references in case the new gig doesn't work out and you need to move on in a few years.  

If it is a smallish company that may be in danger of disappearing, try to get a written reference if you can, as they may not be around to verify you worked there. It is not proof, because obviously something like that is easily faked, but it is better than nothing.

Keep your old business cards for the same reason.  Get home phone numbers and addresses of co-workers and supervisors so you have someone that can verify your employment down the road if they are no longer around or just refuse to do so.

Try to burn as few bridges as you can when you leave. You may get a brief moment of joy out of giving you boss a rude gesture as you leave, but it is unprofessional, and you never know if it will come back at you some day.  Instead of him remembering you as a valued employee who moved on, he might well remember you as a jerk that he was glad left before having to be fired.