Author Topic: This new pope is pretty cool  (Read 14614 times)

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: This new pope is pretty cool
« Reply #25 on: September 22, 2013, 08:13:54 PM »
without attempting to deal with the "salvation by faith alone" Protestant orthodoxy, let me say that the Pope should, at the least, suggest that maybe one might at least nod toward the Nicene Creed, the Bible, the lives of the saints, or SOMETHING that resembles doctrinal, doctrinaire Catholicism.  "Obsessed with abortion".  Really?  A practice that has ended more lives in the last handful of years than all wars fought in the 20th century?  THAT abortion???  Toughen up, Francis.  You don't stand for that, you don't stand for anything.


reading   its fundamental
Last year, then-Cardinal Bergoglio stated, “Abortion is never a solution. We listen, support and understanding from our place to save two lives: respect the human being small and helpless, they can take steps to preserve your life, allow birth and then be creative in the search for ways to bring it to its full development.”

He once called abortion a “death sentence” for unborn children, during a 2007 speech and likening opposition to abortion to opposition to the death penalty.

In an October 2, 2007 speech Bergoglio said that “we aren’t in agreement with the death penalty,” but “in Argentina we have the death penalty.  A child conceived by the rape of a mentally ill or retarded woman can be condemned to death.”

The remarks came during the presentation of a document called the Aparecida Document, a joint statement of the bishops of Latin America.

The document, which the new Pope presented on behalf of his colleagues at the time and signed of on, referred to abortion and communion, said “we should commit ourselves to ‘eucharistic coherence’, that is, we should be conscious that people cannot receive holy communion and at the same time act or speak against the commandments, in particular when abortion, euthanasia, and other serious crimes against life and family are facilitated.  This responsibility applies particularly to legislators, governors, and health professionals.”
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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cassandra and sara's daddy

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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

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Re: This new pope is pretty cool
« Reply #27 on: September 22, 2013, 08:56:53 PM »
 I was raised Catholic, attended Catholic school early on - until my parents realized they could save a ton of money by switching to Gov't Indoctrination Entrenched Corporate Obedience ...   >:D

Currently I'm at a standstill spiritually - I know I am pro life, I know I am a believer - I just don't know much else.

As a cathoholic I've been paying a little attention to the new Pope and liked him at first-currently- I am kind of pissed off at him-I just don't know why [tinfoil] :angel:
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Re: This new pope is pretty cool
« Reply #28 on: September 22, 2013, 09:45:47 PM »
I was raised Catholic, attended Catholic school early on - until my parents realized they could save a ton of money by switching to Gov't Indoctrination Entrenched Corporate Obedience ...   >:D

Currently I'm at a standstill spiritually - I know I am pro life, I know I am a believer - I just don't know much else.

As a cathoholic I've been paying a little attention to the new Pope and liked him at first-currently- I am kind of pissed off at him-I just don't know why [tinfoil] :angel:

Gunsmith I pretty much abandoned any specific flavor of Christianity myself. I've got a good relationship with God and know a few chaplains here and there to consult with when needed and that works for me.

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Re: This new pope is pretty cool
« Reply #29 on: September 23, 2013, 12:16:09 PM »
The MSM is pretty desperately trying to spin this Pope to be something he's not. I haven't seen this much silly out of context quoting in a while. And I'm definitely not a Catholic.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: This new pope is pretty cool
« Reply #30 on: September 23, 2013, 12:45:32 PM »
The MSM is pretty desperately trying to spin this Pope to be something he's not.


Those smart guys on the LCMS radio having been saying exactly that. They kinda know what they're talking about.
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Re: This new pope is pretty cool
« Reply #31 on: September 23, 2013, 01:25:32 PM »
End times are here I agree with fistful and balog.
The msn gets some blame but sadly much of the disinformation is generated within the catholic church by folks who fear this pope. He threatens their power

damn phone
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Perd Hapley

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Re: Re: This new pope is pretty cool
« Reply #32 on: September 23, 2013, 01:55:07 PM »
End times are here I agree with fistful and balog.
The msn gets some blame but sadly much of the disinformation is generated within the catholic church by folks who fear this pope. He threatens their power

damn phone

The pope may be partly to blame for saying certain things that can be spun a certain way, when he could be more clear. Of course, with a media determined to draw the wrong conclusions, clarity may not help that much.
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fifth_column

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Re: This new pope is pretty cool
« Reply #33 on: September 23, 2013, 03:18:04 PM »
A practice that has ended more lives in the last handful of years than all wars fought in the 20th century? 

Cite?
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: This new pope is pretty cool
« Reply #34 on: September 23, 2013, 04:46:49 PM »
Cite?

Off the top of my head there have been 22 million abortions just in the black community since 1970

To give that perspective that's equivalent to all the living black folks in the us now


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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

Hutch

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Re: This new pope is pretty cool
« Reply #35 on: September 23, 2013, 10:55:16 PM »

reading   its fundamental
Last year, then-Cardinal Bergoglio stated, “Abortion is never a solution. We listen, support and understanding from our place to save two lives: respect the human being small and helpless, they can take steps to preserve your life, allow birth and then be creative in the search for ways to bring it to its full development.”

He once called abortion a “death sentence” for unborn children, during a 2007 speech and likening opposition to abortion to opposition to the death penalty.

In an October 2, 2007 speech Bergoglio said that “we aren’t in agreement with the death penalty,” but “in Argentina we have the death penalty.  A child conceived by the rape of a mentally ill or retarded woman can be condemned to death.”

The remarks came during the presentation of a document called the Aparecida Document, a joint statement of the bishops of Latin America.

The document, which the new Pope presented on behalf of his colleagues at the time and signed of on, referred to abortion and communion, said “we should commit ourselves to ‘eucharistic coherence’, that is, we should be conscious that people cannot receive holy communion and at the same time act or speak against the commandments, in particular when abortion, euthanasia, and other serious crimes against life and family are facilitated.  This responsibility applies particularly to legislators, governors, and health professionals.”
Oh yeah?  Well then he says:

From the NYT "Francis told the interviewer, a fellow Jesuit: “It is not necessary to talk about these issues all the time. The dogmatic and moral teachings of the church are not all equivalent. The church’s pastoral ministry cannot be obsessed with the transmission of a disjointed multitude of doctrines to be imposed insistently."

I don't think the NYT is trying to make him look more traditional in his teachings and outlook.  Do you?  Sounds to me like he's trying to walk back the church's dogma/doctrine.
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Ron

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Re: This new pope is pretty cool
« Reply #36 on: September 24, 2013, 12:29:54 AM »
Often folks who are not believers and have little to no grasp of the spiritual/metaphysical context of dogma/doctrine are the ones who push particular issues to the forefront.

Christianity in general is in a defensive posture and is under constant attack from the philosophic myopic post modernists.

Attacking the philosophical foundations of western democratic liberty with nothing waiting in the wings to hold the edifice of the modern western world together is a recipe for disaster.



 

 
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Re: Re: This new pope is pretty cool
« Reply #37 on: September 24, 2013, 04:17:12 AM »
Oh yeah?  Well then he says:

From the NYT "Francis told the interviewer, a fellow Jesuit: “It is not necessary to talk about these issues all the time. The dogmatic and moral teachings of the church are not all equivalent. The church’s pastoral ministry cannot be obsessed with the transmission of a disjointed multitude of doctrines to be imposed insistently."

I don't think the NYT is trying to make him look more traditional in his teachings and outlook.  Do you?  Sounds to me like he's trying to walk back the church's dogma/doctrine.

At least you didn't try the zomg hes gonna ordain female cardinals story making the rounds

damn phone
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Re: Re: This new pope is pretty cool
« Reply #38 on: September 24, 2013, 04:25:46 AM »
Oh yeah?  Well then he says:

From the NYT "Francis told the interviewer, a fellow Jesuit: “It is not necessary to talk about these issues all the time. The dogmatic and moral teachings of the church are not all equivalent. The church’s pastoral ministry cannot be obsessed with the transmission of a disjointed multitude of doctrines to be imposed insistently."

I don't think the NYT is trying to make him look more traditional in his teachings and outlook.  Do you?  Sounds to me like he's trying to walk back the church's dogma/doctrine.
what part shows him "walking back" a doctrine

damn phone
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

Hutch

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Re: Re: Re: This new pope is pretty cool
« Reply #39 on: September 24, 2013, 08:10:19 AM »
what part shows him "walking back" a doctrine

damn phone
CSD, if you don't find that in the context, I can't help you.  Calling them "a disjointed multitude" "imposed insistently" and "not all equivalent" is clear enough for me.  Did you expect him to come out and say "Oh, that abortion thing?  That's like, totally last century".
"My limited experience does not permit me to appreciate the unquestionable wisdom of your decision"

Seems like every day, I'm forced to add to the list of people who can just kiss my hairy ass.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: This new pope is pretty cool
« Reply #40 on: September 24, 2013, 08:19:52 AM »
CSD, if you don't find that in the context, I can't help you.  Calling them "a disjointed multitude" "imposed insistently" and "not all equivalent" is clear enough for me.  Did you expect him to come out and say "Oh, that abortion thing?  That's like, totally last century".

Those are unpleasant truths for you?

damn phone
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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fifth_column

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Re: This new pope is pretty cool
« Reply #41 on: September 24, 2013, 02:46:06 PM »
Off the top of my head there have been 22 million abortions just in the black community since 1970

To give that perspective that's equivalent to all the living black folks in the us now


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Not much of a cite really.  I can come up with lots of stats off the top of my head also.  Doesn't make them accurate, or remotely related to reality for that matter . . . .

I'm not looking to get into a discussion on abortion, I'm just suggesting toning down the hyperbole when trying to prove your point.
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Balog

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Re: This new pope is pretty cool
« Reply #42 on: September 24, 2013, 02:57:56 PM »
Not much of a cite really.  I can come up with lots of stats off the top of my head also.  Doesn't make them accurate, or remotely related to reality for that matter . . . .

I'm not looking to get into a discussion on abortion, I'm just suggesting toning down the hyperbole when trying to prove your point.

Taken worldwide, the number of abortions in the 20th century dwarf the numbers slain in all of the genocides/Communist purges/wars combined. It's not hyperbole. Every year on average, more than 40,000,000 children are aborted. And it's very possible that number is understated, given the poor reporting in the many impoverished countries where abortion is most common.

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_IAW.html

http://www.lifenews.com/2011/04/21/earth-day-abortion-has-killed-1-2-billion-worldwide-in-50-years/

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AZRedhawk44

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Re: This new pope is pretty cool
« Reply #43 on: September 24, 2013, 03:07:00 PM »
You'll like this, then, Balog:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/sep/24/vatican-court-head-no-communion-nancy-pelosi/

By Vatican Law, Pelosi to be denied communion.
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fifth_column

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Balog

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Re: This new pope is pretty cool
« Reply #45 on: September 24, 2013, 03:14:15 PM »
You'll like this, then, Balog:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/sep/24/vatican-court-head-no-communion-nancy-pelosi/

By Vatican Law, Pelosi to be denied communion.

While I'm no filthy papist  ;) any social sanctions brought to bear against folks like Pelosi do in fact bring a smile to my face.
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Re: This new pope is pretty cool
« Reply #46 on: September 24, 2013, 03:33:36 PM »
So, OP is saying that the Pope is pretty dope?
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Re: Re: This new pope is pretty cool
« Reply #47 on: September 24, 2013, 04:27:16 PM »
So, OP is saying that the Pope is pretty dope?

Yup 
And i suspect he'd chuckle at that while the establishment would cluck
 their tongues
damn phone
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Hawkmoon

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Re: This new pope is pretty cool
« Reply #48 on: September 24, 2013, 07:58:08 PM »
Pope Francis is the Catholic version of a liberal Republican.  Hmmmn... CINO?  I don't see how his liberation theology, amoral, don't-stand-for-anything sort of viewpoint will stand the church in good stead.  This is an unfolding disaster for Catholicism.  If some Catholics want a fuzzy-bunny, puppy kisses, socially conscious church, there's any number of others they can attend.

I believe there's gonna be a split/schism in the church. 

If so, maybe it'll be a counter-balance to the (unacknowledged) schism in the Worldwide Anglican Communion.
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