Author Topic: Return (child) to Sender  (Read 9665 times)

Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas

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Return (child) to Sender
« on: April 11, 2010, 06:56:49 PM »
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1264954/American-sends-adopted-Russian-boy-behavioural-problems.html
Quote
Russia has threatened to suspend all child adoptions by U.S. families after a seven-year-old boy adopted by an American woman was sent alone on a one-way flight back to Moscow with a note saying he was violent and had severe psychological problems.

The boy, Artem Saveliev, was put on a plane by his adopted grandmother, Nancy Hansen of Shelbyville.

In a case that has caused outrage at the highest levels, Torry Ann Hansen packed off Artem with a note to Moscow officials saying 'I no longer wish to parent this child'.

The single mother even paid an associate to take the boy straight to the ministry of education on his arrival at Moscow airport.

Both the Kremlin and the U.S. ambassador have expressed their shock at Artem's plight and there is now a diplomatic dispute over his future.

Miss Hansen, from Shelbyville, Tennessee, chose Artem from an orphanage in eastern Russia last September.

Staff said the 34-year-old nurse had convinced them and a Russian court that she would provide a proper home, even without a husband.

Seven months later - and a week before Artem's eighth birthday - she decided she had had enough because of his 'violent and psychopathic' behaviour.
HOW WAS HE ALLOWED TO TRAVEL ALONE?

Artem, just seven years old, travelled from Tennessee to Washington, and from Washington to Moscow, apparently unaccompanied.

United Airlines refused to discuss the case but stressed that its rules on unaccompanied minors were strictly adhered to.

However these rules state that children aged seven 'may not travel on connecting flights'.

The airline said its 'unaccompanied minor service is available to ensure that your child is boarded onto the aircraft, introduced to the flight attendant, chaperoned during connections and turned over to the appropriate person upon arrival at their final destination.'

Having bought a ticket and put the child on the plane, it seems Hansen found a Russian tour guide on the internet who agreed to meet the child at the airport.

This man, called Artur, passed him to the authorities in central Moscow. Hansen agreed to pay Artur $200 for meeting the child, said officials.

Packing sweets, biscuits and colouring pens for his journey, Miss Hansen allegedly told Artem he was going on a holiday.

Claiming that the orphanage had lied, she said in her letter: 'After giving my best to this child, I am sorry to say that for the safety of my family, friends and myself, I no longer wish to parent this child.

'As he is a Russian national, I am returning him to your guardianship and would like the adoption annulled.

'He is violent and has severe psychopathic issues/behaviour. I was lied to and misled by the Russian orphanage workers and director regarding his mental stability.

'They chose to grossly misrepresent those problems in order to get him out of their orphanage.'

But Pavel Astakhov, the Kremlin's children's rights commissioner, said: 'If his American parent kicked him out from the country on a plane like a sack of potatoes, then we will look after the boy.

'Our care system will take up the case. After a full medical examination, he will be placed in one of our orphanages.'

John Beyrle, the U.S. ambassador in Moscow, said he was deeply shocked and very angry that any family could act so callously.

But the case has sparked a diplomatic tug-of-war over who should lay claim to the boy.

Mr Astakhov, who yesterday spoke to Artem at the Moscow hospital where he is being looked after, said U.S. officials had been there to demand custody.

He added: 'They had a conversation with the guards, threatening, and saying that they will make the hospital administration responsible for not letting them take an American citizen.'

Russia last night threatened to suspend all child adoptions by U.S. families folowing the row over the return of the 7-year-old boy by a woman from Tennessee.

The Russian education ministry immediately suspended the license of the group involved in the adoption - the World Association for Children and Parents, a Renton, Washington-based agency - for the duration of an investigation.

Any possible freeze could affect hundreds of American families.

Last year, nearly 1,600 Russian children were adopted in the United States, and more than 60,000 Russian orphans have been successfully adopted there, according to the National Council For Adoption, a U.S. adoption advocacy nonprofit group.

Moscow officials claim there have been 17 deaths in suspicious circumstances of Russian children adopted by Americans since 1991.
BITTER CUSTODY TUG-OF WAR OVER ARTEM

American embassy officials in Moscow say the Artem is legally a U.S. citizen even though he flew to Moscow on a Russian passport he had used when he was first adopted, it was reported.

Kremlin children's rights supremo Pavel Astakhov said that on Thursday night U.S. consular officials appeared at Moscow Hospital Number 21 where the child is being cared for and demanded to be allowed access to Artem and to take him with them.

'They had a conversation with the guards, threatening, and saying that they will make the hospital administration responsible for not letting them take an American citizen,' he claimed.

Astakhov insisted the child is a Russian citizen, adding that the U.S. mother accepted this in her letter returning the boy.

The U.S. embassy refused to comment on the case today but it is understood America was making diplomatic enquiries about the child.

Normally, Russian children adopted abroad take up their citizenship of their new country.

Usually, in the case of joint citizenship, the U.S. would have no rights over the child if he is in Russia, just as Russia would have no rights if he was in America.

Following the fall of the U.S.S.R., 60,000 Russian children have been adopted by foreigners, 70 per cent of them going to U.S. families.

It is understood Artem was put on a plane from Tennessee to Washington before taking a ten-hour flight to Moscow with United Airlines.

It is not clear why passport officials and airlines allowed a seven-year-old to travel so far alone.

Children need to be at least eight to catch connecting flights.

United Airlines insisted yesterday that all its 'strict rules' were adhered to.

Mr Astakhov said Artem wept as he spoke of his mother in America, and her natural son Logan, ten, whom he saw as his brother.

'Artem said he made good friends with Logan,' he said. 'When he started to talk about his mother he began to cry, showing how she dragged him by the hair.'

Doctors in Moscow have found no signs of abuse.

Neighbours said police visited Miss Hansen's house on Thursday. She was not there last night.

Adoption officials in Partizansk, near Vladivostok, said they were stunned by the claims.

'She seemed a nice, kind woman. Artem immediately reached out to her. She even learned a few Russian words to communicate with her future son,' said Vera Kuznetsova.

'Artem is normal for his age. He is a stubborn little child, but this is not a problem for loving parents.'

Miss Hansen's mother, Nancy, said Artem had become violent and that the family felt he would be better off in care in his homeland.

She said a stewardess had watched over him on his journey.

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MicroBalrog

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Re: Return (child) to Sender
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2010, 07:06:10 PM »
Typical Russian government BS.

There's lots of Americans adopting orphans from Russia. Once in a while there's a bad apple and they start whining and threatening to cut it off.  It wins them patriotic FURRINERS R STEALING OUR CHILDRENZ points.
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White Horseradish

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Re: Return (child) to Sender
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2010, 07:30:26 PM »
Typical Russian government BS.

There's lots of Americans adopting orphans from Russia. Once in a while there's a bad apple and they start whining and threatening to cut it off.  It wins them patriotic FURRINERS R STEALING OUR CHILDRENZ points.
Moreover, it gives them reason to raise adoption and procedural fees.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Return (child) to Sender
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2010, 11:28:09 PM »
So are we saying that it's perfectly A-Okay for an American woman to adopt a kid from Russia, bring him over here, and then several months later just say "Oh. Never mind."? Sorry. I know a number of people who have completed international adoptions, including from Russia. Basically, this woman should never have been allowed to adopt. I don't fault Russia in the least for being upset over this.

And I also don't buy the argument that "It's not clear that any laws have been broken." If there's any bovine excrement floating around, it's in that statement. The woman had adopted this kid. He IS her son. Do you think any American anywhere could take a natural-born child, stick him/her on an airplane to Moscow, and just say "I changed my mind, I don't want to play mommy any more" without being charged with abandonment, neglect, risk of injury, child endangerment, and probably about a dozen other charges if the prosecutor is at all creative?

Adoptions are not Wal-Mart. there is no money-back guarantee of fitness for purpose. Adopted kids are like used cars on the independent lots -- as-is, no warranty.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2010, 11:31:39 PM by Hawkmoon »
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MillCreek

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Re: Return (child) to Sender
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2010, 11:46:12 PM »
From an article that I read today, it appears as if the adoption was not yet final.
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AJ Dual

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Re: Return (child) to Sender
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2010, 11:55:38 PM »
So are we saying that it's perfectly A-Okay for an American woman to adopt a kid from Russia, bring him over here, and then several months later just say "Oh. Never mind."? Sorry. I know a number of people who have completed international adoptions, including from Russia. Basically, this woman should never have been allowed to adopt. I don't fault Russia in the least for being upset over this.

And I also don't buy the argument that "It's not clear that any laws have been broken." If there's any bovine excrement floating around, it's in that statement. The woman had adopted this kid. He IS her son. Do you think any American anywhere could take a natural-born child, stick him/her on an airplane to Moscow, and just say "I changed my mind, I don't want to play mommy any more" without being charged with abandonment, neglect, risk of injury, child endangerment, and probably about a dozen other charges if the prosecutor is at all creative?

Adoptions are not Wal-Mart. there is no money-back guarantee of fitness for purpose. Adopted kids are like used cars on the independent lots -- as-is, no warranty.

I think it's a crappy situation, and it's horrible for the child.

OTOH, I can look myself in the mirror and honestly say I'm not sure what I would do with a psychopathic child suffering from detachment syndrome who's capable of murdering the entire family in their sleep, or burning down the house either.  =|

I'm not standing up for the woman, but I'm recognizing there's some pretty hairy issues involved.

http://www.wisn.com/news/20048214/detail.html

This guy is my SIL's brother. Both of them are adopted, different birth parents. The adoptive parents are the most Ozzie & Harriet/Ward & June Cleaver people you'll ever meet. The "mother" in the news story who helped him burn the decomposing body of his drug dealing girlfriend (She was my BIL's "connection") is his birth mother. He reconnected with her in his late 20's, when they managed to meet up without both being in and out of prison constantly...   ;/

All I'm saying is that "love does not conquer all", and sometimes... just sometimes adoption stories do turn into nightmares.
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Return (child) to Sender
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2010, 12:58:06 AM »
Quote
So are we saying that it's perfectly A-Okay for an American woman to adopt a kid from Russia, bring him over here, and then several months later just say "Oh. Never mind."?

Who said this?
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

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Laurent du Var

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Re: Return (child) to Sender
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2010, 03:07:58 AM »
Dear Lord, a seven year old child.

IMO Miss Hansen should be held to clean all the crappers of an
sibirean orphange with an old toothbrush for the next twenty years...
Vada a bordo, Cazzo!

drewtam

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Re: Return (child) to Sender
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2010, 06:38:34 PM »
I think there is an undercurrent issue that Russian population is shrinking dramatically. Low birth rates and immigration are putting the countries future in serious risk economically and politically. They have even gone so far as to create a day off for work, "Sex Day" in a half serious attempt to boost birth rates.

I wouldn't be surprised that feigned outrage over these incidents is part of an effort to ban foreign adoptions, or at least US adoptions.

I don't fault such a possible motivation. But if that is the end game, I doubt enacting it will have the benefit they really want.
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The Lone Haranguer

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Re: Return (child) to Sender
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2010, 08:03:31 PM »
That is a pretty disgusting thing to do.     Even if the kid is messed up in the head, he is still a human being, not a dog you send back to the shelter because you can't housebreak it.  ;/

Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Return (child) to Sender
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2010, 08:34:04 PM »
That is a pretty disgusting thing to do.     Even if the kid is messed up in the head, he is still a human being, not a dog you send back to the shelter because you can't housebreak it.  ;/
Would you risk your other family members in the process?  They're human beings, too, ya know.

It's a messy situation all around.  It sounds like the Russians engaged in a bit of nastiness trying to foist a dangerous and violent kid off on some hapless Americans.  Except the Americans weren't quite so hapless afterall.  They matched the Russians' nastiness with some nastiness of their own.  The ironic part is that the child who got caught in the middle apparently is pretty nasty himself.

Hawkmoon

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Re: Return (child) to Sender
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2010, 09:13:03 PM »
From an article that I read today, it appears as if the adoption was not yet final.

Impossible.

Several years ago I took a trip to Russia. Met a nice young American couple on the plane. Standing in the inevitable and endless lines for processing into Russia we chatted, and I learned they were arriving to pick up the child they were adopting. They figured they would be there a minimum of two to three weeks for all the paperwork to go through and for the adoption to be completed.

I was astonished when I arrived at the airport in Moscow ten days later to be in line with the same couple ... plus a young boy. They were elated because things had gone more smoothly than they expected, and the kid was now their child. Their new worry was that the kid neither spoke nor understood any English, and they spoke no Russian. Yours truly to the rescue ... I was heading for home, so I gave them my handy dandy pocket Russian/English dictionary and phrase book.

My wife and I are currently doing an international adoption ourselves. Without going into unnecessary detail, I can state with absolute certainty that she did NOT bring that Russian kid to the United States if the adoption was not final. Period, end of discussion. It just doesn't work that way.

Quote from: AJ Dual
I think it's a crappy situation, and it's horrible for the child.

OTOH, I can look myself in the mirror and honestly say I'm not sure what I would do with a psychopathic child suffering from detachment syndrome who's capable of murdering the entire family in their sleep, or burning down the house either.  undecided

I'm not standing up for the woman, but I'm recognizing there's some pretty hairy issues involved.

I fully agree that there are serious issues involved. And I would not suggest for a nanosecond that the Russians didn't cheerfully (well, as cheerfully as a Russian is capable of) conceal a few pertinent psychological factors from the adopting mother. I'm sure they were delighted to send a young psychopath to the U.S. But that only shows that the mother didn't do her homework. The kid is now HER child. It's like traditional marriage vows: "For better and for worse ..."
« Last Edit: April 12, 2010, 09:20:15 PM by Hawkmoon »
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Return (child) to Sender
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2010, 09:50:59 PM »
giving a travel agent 200 bucks and sending the kid to russia alone is major fail. i'd want to know more about what things the kid did and while we're at it take a long loo at the momma impersonator.   the kid is definitely better off without her
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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MillCreek

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Re: Return (child) to Sender
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2010, 09:52:32 PM »
Bob Tuke, a Nashville attorney and member of the American Academy of Adoption Attorneys, said abandonment charges against the family could depend on whether the boy was a U.S. citizen.

It wasn't clear if the adoption had become final.  A Tennessee health department spokeswoman said there was no birth certificate issued for the boy, a step that would indicate he had become a U.S. citizen.


http://www.wkrn.com/global/Story.asp?s=12292644

Hawkmoon, I wonder if you are speaking about two parallel legal adoption processes: one in Russia and one back in the States.  Perhaps all the paperwork was done in Russia, but it was not finalized in the States.  Either that, or the press stories are wrong, or there is another explanation.

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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Return (child) to Sender
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2010, 09:56:58 PM »
got several friends that adopted internationally since they are barred from adopting here and none of then got temporary tags on their kids
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Gowen

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Re: Return (child) to Sender
« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2010, 10:06:30 PM »
I'm just sad that we can't send other children back.  "Kenya, will you take him back please?" :'(
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Re: Return (child) to Sender
« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2010, 10:08:05 PM »
I'm just sad that we can't send other children back.  "Kenya, will you take him back please?" :'(
Kenyans deserve free health care too, don't they?

roo_ster

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Re: Return (child) to Sender
« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2010, 11:21:08 PM »
I hesitated replying, but WTH, I never let good sense or decorum stop me before...

The bottom line is that there is no good answer and that the sheer level of concentrated awfulness that permeates the entire situation makes the lies, obfuscations, and failings of the humans seem minuscule by comparison.  I am not excusing either the Russians for their lies/dissembling or the gal who adopted the damaged child.  They ought to own their actions.  But, an acknowledgment of the reality does seem in order and provides a better understanding as to why folks did what they did.



One of my BILs was a missionary over in Russia for years.  His beat was the orphanages.

Ya know how the term "Turkish Prison" is used as a symbol for the worst place to get locked up?  Well, "Russian Orphanage" is probably on similar footing, awfulness-wise, for a kid to grow up.

My BIL concentrated on the kids who never were--and likely never would be--adopted, the older ones.  Unless he could help them truly have a "come to Jesus" moment, both literally & figuratively, they were destined for the human trash heap.  Almost all the girls would end up in prostitution, drugs, and die of AIDS or be murdered.  The boys would end up in crime and either get killed or commit suicide within a few years of leaving the orphanage.

He also saw some of younger kiddos.  The infants would feel human touch only when their diapers were being changed or they were bathed.  This is a good way to churn out sociopaths, I hear.  Most the younger infants & kids who were not messed up, the orphanages tried to adopt into Russian families.  The exception is the kids with oriental blood.  The Russians hate them some Asians, so even if an asian or part-asian kid is good-to-go, he won't get adopted into a Russian family.  This is in the ethnic Russian parts of Russia, where he worked.  Some prospective adoptive parents use this to their advantage, increasing the odds that they get a kids without serious psychological damage.

He & his fellow missionaries had some victories, and were noticed by the Russian Orthodox Church, who were a mite embarrassed to see these Americans from a tiny Christian denomination doing more for the orphans than the many thousands of local RO folks & clergy. 

Well, my BIL had five good years helping save some of those orphans before the RO church pressured the Russian gov't to not renew their visas and kick them out of the country.

Now, those running the orphanages are not evil folks.  They just don't have the resources to properly take care of and raise that many children.  I can completely see their POV, even with a damaged child.  That kid would have much better chances in the USA than Russia.  They appreciated my BIL's and his fellow missionaries' help.  I think the only truly evil folks were those in the RO church who agitated for the visa revocations and the gov't official who did it.  I hope they burn eternally for their betrayal of the most damaged & vulnerable.  Just dying in a fire is too good for them.  Lake of fire, baby.
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Return (child) to Sender
« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2010, 11:31:36 PM »
i'm curious what the kid did in 7 weeks that caused mommy dearest to take him back to the pound.
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas

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Re: Return (child) to Sender
« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2010, 11:43:36 PM »
i'm curious what the kid did in 7 weeks that caused mommy dearest to take him back to the pound.
Maybe he didn't eat his spinach.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Return (child) to Sender
« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2010, 11:45:50 PM »
i'm sorry  she had him 7 months   still would love to hear what he did.  and what remedial steps/actions she attempted.  if any
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Hawkmoon

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Re: Return (child) to Sender
« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2010, 12:00:25 AM »
Bob Tuke, a Nashville attorney and member of the American Academy of Adoption Attorneys, said abandonment charges against the family could depend on whether the boy was a U.S. citizen.

It wasn't clear if the adoption had become final.  A Tennessee health department spokeswoman said there was no birth certificate issued for the boy, a step that would indicate he had become a U.S. citizen.


http://www.wkrn.com/global/Story.asp?s=12292644

Hawkmoon, I wonder if you are speaking about two parallel legal adoption processes: one in Russia and one back in the States.  Perhaps all the paperwork was done in Russia, but it was not finalized in the States.  Either that, or the press stories are wrong, or there is another explanation.


There are not two parallel adoption processes. There is only one. Adoptive parents cannot bring an adopted child into the United States -- in fact, cannot even apply for a visa TO bring the child into the United States -- unless and until the adoption has been completed in the child's native country. Birth certificate and citizenship are separate issues. It is recommended (not required) that upon arrival in the U.S. a new birth certificate be obtained from the local probate court having jurisdiction in the place of the family's residence. This is not a requirement. I don't think it is a requirement even to obtain citizenship for the child, but we haven't reached that stage yet and I may have a less-than-perfect understanding of that part of the process.

What I do know is that adoptive parents cannot take the adopted child out of the birth country or bring it into the United States if the adoption has not been completed in the birth country. Once that has taken place, there is no other adoption. You don't adopt a child once in the birth country, bring him/her here, then adopt him/her again.

Is it possible to adopt a foreign child in the United States? Yes, it is ... but only under special circumstances. First, the child has to already BE here ... legally. Being here on a tourist or student visa would qualify, but of course the U.S. doesn't grant student or tourist visas for the purpose of adoption, so something else would have had to occur. Secondly, there has to be proof of some kind, acceptable to a judge of probate in the U.S., that the child is legally available for adoption and that the birth parents either have irrevocably surrendered their parental rights, or that they are deceased. If both those conditions are met, a U.S. judge of probate can grant an adoption. But ...

... Catch-22: Even under those conditions, the U.S. Department of Customs and Immigration Services (USCIS) will not issue a permanent resident visa to a child adopted in the U.S. if the child comes from a country signatory to the Hague Convention on the International Adoption of Children. If the other country is a "Hague country," the adoption MUST be completed in the child's native country. (It appears that Russia is a signatory but has not yet ratified the treaty, and the status chart does not indicate an effective date for Russia. The U.S. signed in 1994, it was finally ratified in 2007, and for us it became effective in March of 2008. Talk about a process moving with glacial rapidity!)
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Return (child) to Sender
« Reply #22 on: April 13, 2010, 12:10:09 AM »
BTW -- Russia has a very high incidence of fetal alcohol syndrome. A high percentage of the kids in Russian orphanages really are damaged goods. But most (if not all) reputable adoption agencies here in the U.S. do their best to ensure that prospective adoptive parents understand that before commencing the process. This mommie dearest either wasn't paying attention in class, or chose not to believe what she was told. The kid may very well have serious psychological issues and I don't dispute that.

But she adopted him. He IS her problem now.
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MillCreek

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Re: Return (child) to Sender
« Reply #23 on: April 13, 2010, 08:51:40 AM »
Consistent with some of the other comments here, I once went to a medical grand rounds at our local hospital.  The speaker was one of the pediatricians on staff, and she periodically did medical missions to Romania, where she worked in the state orphanages.  Because of the former laws related to birth control and abortions, the orphanages there were just jam packed and because Romania is a poor country, there were little resources to staff and operate them.  Consequently, many children from the Eastern European orphanages suffer from what is called attachment disorder, and can be quite a challenge to parent.  There is not a lot of good therapy for attachment disorder. 
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Regards,
MillCreek
Snohomish County, WA  USA


Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

MillCreek

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Re: Return (child) to Sender
« Reply #24 on: April 13, 2010, 08:52:53 AM »
Hawkmoon, thanks for the explanation on international adoption.  This is an area I knew nothing about, and now I know more about it.
_____________
Regards,
MillCreek
Snohomish County, WA  USA


Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.