Anabolic steroid use and violence - public perceptions

[Iain]

Just curious about public perceptions really. There have been a number of cases I can think of where the media has attempted to draw a straight link between use and violent criminal behaviour. Aside from the well known instances with people Benoit, we also have had David Bieber and the on-going Raoul Moat manhunt.

The BBC have drawn some lazy conclusions (nowhere near as bad as The Sun and their 'steroid-crazed' hyperbole) but still managed to produce a relatively more considered article about steroids - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/10520655.stm

Abuse can cause dramatic mood swings, depression, paranoid jealousy, extreme irritability, delusions and impaired judgement.

Chris Hudson, a nurse from drugs information service Frank, said: "The drugs can make normally calm people feel irritable, aggressive and even violent. They can cause dramatic mood swings and lead to paranoia, confusion and insomnia."

But there is very little hard and fast evidence linking steroid misuse to actual behaviour changes.

Jim McVeigh, an expert on the subject of substance abuse at the Centre for Public Health at Liverpool John Moores University said the evidence was "quite thin".

"To date it's not been possible to prove a causal effect between anabolic steroids and aggression.

"Part of the problem is that a lot of the side-effects are self-reported so there is a high level of bias.

"Also, because of the nature of the drugs used it is rare to identify the exact drug used. It's an illicit market - most of the drugs are fake or counterfeit and we do not know what's in them."

And Mr McVeigh said it would be impossible to say if any alleged history of steroid misuse would have any bearing on behaviour.

Having been to a fairly serious gym for the last few years I've mixed with users, not socially however. On occasion though some have said that it's a bit like alcohol - it'll magnify what is already there.

As McVeigh points out above, the widespread public 'knowledge' is based on anecdote and self-reported side-effects. There was a "documentary" on TV over here some time ago that stuck a wafer thin veneer of science on to an experiment with young guys and test enanthate. What was interesting, in this very limited 'study' was that one of the guys who left because of mood swings was actually on the placebo. Ben Goldacre's 'Bad Science' book is very good on the power of placebo, really astonishing stuff. Pretty sure that I've read about studies investigating the possibilities of using test as a male contraceptive ran into the same issues - guys thought they were getting all aggressive, but weren't receiving the drug.

The rest of the article is interesting. In my limited experience users run the gamut, some are willing to put anything in themselves in the gym or in a club. Others are health freaks, don't drink and eat well, and as the article says don't really consider themselves to be drug users. I'd also suggest that use is very widespread, not just in competitive sports, but recreational lifters in large numbers.

[AJ Dual]

Having been to a fairly serious gym for the last few years I've mixed with users, not socially however. On occasion though some have said that it's a bit like alcohol - it'll magnify what is already there.

That's the key. Plus the ideation and attitudes of someone already obsessed with body-image issues as well.

I strongly suspect that if you take three groups of bodybuilders/atheletes etc. one who does take steroids, and ones who really wish they could but don't for whatever reason, and a third on a placebo, then charted them for violence, anger, and/or antisocial behavior, I bet you'd see less than a 5% spread in actual aggression due to the testosterone.

[Sergeant Bob]

I don't know a lot about anabolic steroids used in body building but, I do know Prednisone can exacerbate mood swings. I was on it for over a year and it can play Hell (not Michigan!) with emotions. I think it tends to magnify existing emotion.

[Iain]

I was pred for a long time too, can't remember if it had any effects. There wouldn't be any similarity in the mechanism if both did effect emotional state I don't think. Corticosteroids and anabolic steroids are different beasts.

[Sergeant Bob]

I was pred for a long time too, can't remember if it had any effects. There wouldn't be any similarity in the mechanism if both did effect emotional state I don't think. Corticosteroids and anabolic steroids are different beasts.

It mostly made me more "edgy". Of course, I'm a bit edgy already. Also, my "gains" were not muscle mass.

[CNYCacher]

In a period of great medical distress, I spent a month or two on a very high daily dose of prednisone.  I know prednisone is a steroid of some sort and don't know if it affects people in the same way.

I do know what it did to me emotionally, and I would describe it as a stripping away of the filter which is normally regulating my emotions.  Alcohol can do that to some degree, but no where near what I am talking about.  Anger like I've never felt, with no warning or buildup, it's just something irritated me and BOOM. 0 to Rage in 1 second.  The same thing for empathy, sadness, anxiety. . . the whole gamut.

My wife convinced me to watch a sappy chick flick and had the time of her life as we shared an entire box of kleenex for the last 45 minutes of the movie.

While I was typing, three new posts, al about prednisone :)

[Iain]

I well remember that. I seemed to gain weight solely on my face. Must have been on it two or three years, all down to aspergillus.

[eyebrows]

Just started some pred the other day, usually end up being on it one to two times a year(extremely bad reaction to poison ivy).
It definately effects the old "filter". Emotions are stronger and quicker.
As for rage its kinda a different effect on me. Normally I can be a bit quit to rage internaly(I don't act on it) but the pred seems to stop that from happening.
Also I've found that the first few doses of pred(5 pills) effect the sex life, in a very good way. 

[roo_ster]

I haven't been in fighting trim for a few years, but I have, in the past, spent a considerable amount of time in the gym & at the workplace with anabolic steroid users.  Also, socially with a few, but not as much as the former settings.

I think 'roids are analogous to an automobile(1).  Most folks have the anabolic hormone equivalent of a Honda Accord or Chevy Impala.  Enough to get the job done, but nothing spectacular.  Roids are like moving on up to a more powerful auto or hot-rodding your existing auto.  Some folks have the ability or discipline to handle it with aplomb, others end up in the ditch.

Also, the saying "lean & mean" really does have some validity.  In my own case, when I get lean past a particular point, my testosterone levels do raise a bit.  This does not make a a roid rager or a lunatic.  I do have a much greater capacity for aggression, but that doesn't mean I have to go off on people.  Such a capacity is useful in many endeavors: sports, military, LEO, etc.  Anything where pushing one's self hard might be handy.

Anabolic steroids & corticosteroids steroids like prednisone are different critters.  I have seen some obvious anabolic steroid side-effects that are similar, like water weight gain and developing heavy acne and oily skin.


(1) You can easily substitute motorcycle, horse, firearms, or whatever might have enough power to get one in trouble if used incorrectly.

[Brad Johnson]

I strongly suspect that if you take three groups of bodybuilders/atheletes etc. one who does take steroids, and ones who really wish they could but don't for whatever reason, and a third on a placebo, then charted them for violence, anger, and/or antisocial behavior, I bet you'd see less than a 5% spread in actual aggression due to the testosterone.

And I bet you'd be wrong.  In college I ran around with a couple guys that were way into the the whole 'roid thing.  They, and the people around them who shared a common "pharmacological lifestyle" were generally aggressive and prone to hair-trigger reactions.  Of all the people I knew, that group had the most consistent problems with arguments, fights, legal problems, property destruction, etc.

It really hit home I saw both of them again after almost 20 years.  They are now family men and no longer do the "juice up and live in the gym" thing.  I didn't know them.  Literally.  Their personalities were completely changed.  They are now calm, easygoing, and generally pleasant people to be around, not the loud, boisterous, brusque, get-out-of-my-face types I remembered.  I mentioned it and both of them said the same thing, "That's what happens when you juice.  Stop doing it and the real you comes back."  One quit after a run-in with the law where he kicked out all the windows and part of the security screen in a cop car (after being arrested for bashing out all the windows in his girlfriend's car over some irrelevancy).  The other quit after suffering a string of steriod-related health problems that included a mild heart attack at age 27.

[BridgeRunner]

It really hit home I saw both of them again after almost 20 years.  They are now family men and no longer do the "juice up and live in the gym" thing.  I didn't know them.  Literally.  Their personalities were completely changed.  They are now calm, easygoing, and generally pleasant people to be around, not the loud, boisterous, brusque, get-out-of-my-face types I remembered. 

Seems to me part of that change is probably not so much due the change in steroid use, but to aging and assuming responsibilities.

[roo_ster]

Also, roid ragers are somewhat self-selecting. Generally, it is not a cold, logical decision, but only part of an impulsive and risk-taking personality. 

In school & sports, I could easily spot the juicers.  In the service, in my unit and others similar to mine, I could not easily tell as everyone was a highly motivated hard-charger with a veneer of discipline.  How much of that was natural & how much was chemistry was hard to tell.  I was a little startled to learn the number of folks who used roids.

[mtnbkr]

I do know Prednisone can exacerbate mood swings. I was on it for over a year and it can play Hell (not Michigan!) with emotions. I think it tends to magnify existing emotion.

Yup.  Wifey was on very high doses for a few months.  Doses that took a year to taper down from.  Some of the mood swings were fun in the "please honey, I need a breather" sort of way.  Others, not so much.

I well remember that. I seemed to gain weight solely on my face.

My wife gained about 40-50lbs while on Pred, but in the first month, she looked like she gained nearly 100 judging by her face.  That went away as she tapered off, but the first time I saw her (we lived in separate cities) after she started it was a bit of a surprise.

Chris

[BridgeRunner]

Prednisone mostly makes me seriously irritable.  Well, along with generally feeling like my head has tripled in size.  I had no idea that some people find it enhances their sex lives.  Seriously?

[Iain]

I was a teenager who got good grades, went to church and wore glasses. I couldn't possibly comment.

[AJ Dual]

And I bet you'd be wrong.  In college I ran around with a couple guys that were way into the the whole 'roid thing.  They, and the people around them who shared a common "pharmacological lifestyle" were generally aggressive and prone to hair-trigger reactions.  Of all the people I knew, that group had the most consistent problems with arguments, fights, legal problems, property destruction, etc.

Take out pharmacological, and just leave "lifestyle" and you may have your answer. Tribal/groupthink/peer behavior is immensely powerful. Display of machismo for the sake of belonging and for status within the peer group is innate human behavior.

[mtnbkr]

Prednisone mostly makes me seriously irritable.  Well, along with generally feeling like my head has tripled in size.  I had no idea that some people find it enhances their sex lives.  Seriously?

It certainly cranked her up at times (it helped we only saw each other 2 times a month or so).  Of course, her other emotions got cranked up as well.

Chris

[Tallpine]

I called prednisone the "Black Shadow" 

Even the topical inhaled version made me want to seriously kill myself.

[Iain]

Side note - the police have apparently surrounded Moat out in the open, and he's holding his shotgun to his neck.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

i think were i there my comments might disturb some folks

[eyebrows]

I had no idea that some people find it enhances their sex lives.  Seriously?

Oh yeah, seriously.

[Jamisjockey]

Who's "Moat"?

[Cromlech]

Serious Tazer Cop is serious.

[Ron]

A buddy of mine from the old neighborhood basically experienced a psychotic break after (against all our advice) using cycles of illegal steroids. His gains in muscle mass were fast and extraordinary.

He also ended up in the hospital with a crazy racing heart and high blood pressure issue. He crashed emotionally not long after that and has never been the same. In some respects the repressed Jimmy finally came out. He was always emotional, irrational and somewhat unstable, but he had a stable job, nice wife, a house in the 'burbs etc. After the roids he never was the same. I think he jacked his endocrine system up and already being somewhat unstable it pushed him over the edge.

After his breakdown, divorce, stint in the psych ward and losing everything he seemed to just embrace the "new" Jimmy. We no longer talk or stay in touch. He is broken, unstable and I'm afraid if I got sucked into his drama I might incur his irrational wrath and have to put him down, seriously.

[Cromlech]

Who's "Moat"?

Dead now.
Was some late thirties bouncer/bodybuilder fresh out of Prison that got some illegal shotguns from his mates with connections, and went to work on his ex and the guy she was with. Then he shot a cop.